The Thrilla in Manila - 40th anniversary

[BoxBuzz]

Come on, Manila was a memorable struggle, but in truth both men were well off of their FOTC form.

The FOTC was THE FIGHT. Every objective person knows it deep down. Two undefeated champions, both very near their prime, facing each other and both knowing this was their moment.

The issue here is that the media darling lost THE BIG ONE, therefore it gets downplayed.

The media darling won the Old-Timers affair, therefore it gets magnified into something it really wasn't.

Ever wonder why Manila gets so much airplay and the FOTC gets very little, if any?

IF Joe, would have come back from the FOTC with anything near the accomplishments that Ali managed, then Joe would have gotten the tip of the hat by the teeming throngs over the long haul.

From the moment Joe knocked him down, Ali got up, from what could have and perhaps should have spelled the end for almost any other fighter, and battled back for nearly 30 more rounds with Joe....and put a stop to Joe's smokin. And he managed quite a few other nice wins along the way as well.

Not So Joe. That was his mountain, and he did a good job ascending, a respectable K2 effort. But not Everest....that was Ali's mountain.


ya see? That's the qualitative difference in their stories. You really need to Give Ali his due. I know full well it took Joe to make Ali what he became. I'm under no illusions on that.

But K2 aint the tallest mountain.

[yancey]

Come on, Manila was a memorable struggle, but in truth both men were well off of their FOTC form.

The FOTC was THE FIGHT. Every objective person knows it deep down. Two undefeated champions, both very near their prime, facing each other and both knowing this was their moment.

The issue here is that the media darling lost THE BIG ONE, therefore it gets downplayed.

The media darling won the Old-Timers affair, therefore it gets magnified into something it really wasn't.

Ever wonder why Manila gets so much airplay and the FOTC gets very little, if any?

IF Joe, would have come back from the FOTC with anything near the accomplishments that Ali managed, then Joe would have gotten the tip of the hat by the teeming throngs over the long haul.

From the moment Joe knocked him down, Ali got up, from what could have and perhaps should have spelled the end for almost any other fighter, and battled back for nearly 30 more rounds with Joe....and put a stop to Joe's smokin. And he managed quite a few other nice wins along the way as well.

Not So Joe. That was his mountain, and he did a good job ascending, a respectable K2 effort. But not Everest....that was Ali's mountain.


ya see? That's the qualitative difference in their stories. You really need to Give Ali his due. I know full well it took Joe to make Ali what he became. I'm under no illusions on that.

But K2 aint the tallest mountain.

"You've got to give Ali his due" BB




Buzz, do you not understand that I generally have Ali and Louis nip and tuck for #1 ATG? (have Smoke lower because of much less time at the top, though I take him in a battle of primes with Ali)


This is not giving Ali his due???


btw, there is a reason why K2 is known as the Mountaineer's Mountain. It clearly exceeds Everest as a test.

[yancey]

Love the excuse of "my guy lost the series but he won the one that counted"

If someone is a big Graziano fan they can say so what if he won only one of three from Zale. Just say that the fight Graziano won was "the one that counted". Then expect a Zale fan to say "oh darn, you got me there".

Same with Griffith-Benvenuti. If you are a Griffith fan, it doesn't matter than your guy only won one of three. Just say the fight that Griffith won was "more important". Then surely a Benvenuti fan would have to concede " you got me there"

Same with McLarnin-Ross. If you a McLarnin fan, just claim the only fight he won in their fights was a bigger fight. Than you can fully expect a Ross fan to respond" gee whiz, you right".

Really makes a lot of sense.

If you gave me two choices.....

1. Frazier wins the FOTC and then loses the next two Ali fights.

2. Frazier loses the FOTC and then wins the next two Ali fights.

I take option 1 EVERY time. Without a doubt.

The FOTC was everything. It was the moment. Astute Ali fans know this deep down and it pisses them off that Frazier prevailed. Thus the bogus excuses.

Like a knowledgeable poster here said.....

"Frazier was King when it mattered."

Good for you. The first fight was special to you because your guy won. The first fight was no more important to me than the third. It wasn't any more of a special moment for me. The second fight was not a title fight, but still was huge. Ali loses that and the whole history of boxing changes.

I would always take 2-1 over 1-2. If Frazier lost the first and won the second two, he would be rated higher than Ali and arguably could even be #1 All-Time. Of course it would be better for him to have been able to do that then what actually happened.

If Ali would have won the first and lost the next two, he would not be the best of All-time. So, I am glad it turned out the way it did rather than the reverse.

2-1 is better than 1-2. Pretty simple.

"the first fight was special to you because your guy won." AA




The first fight was special because it was THE FOTC, not because of who won. I lived that era, Manila was nothing in size and buildup and historical significance compared to the FOTC.

Had Frazier lost, I would still be saying the FOTC was the biggest fight of all-time!

I'm the one who is actually being objective here, but you may not understand this and I tire.

Have a good night, bud.

[BoxBuzz]

Come on, Manila was a memorable struggle, but in truth both men were well off of their FOTC form.

The FOTC was THE FIGHT. Every objective person knows it deep down. Two undefeated champions, both very near their prime, facing each other and both knowing this was their moment.

The issue here is that the media darling lost THE BIG ONE, therefore it gets downplayed.

The media darling won the Old-Timers affair, therefore it gets magnified into something it really wasn't.

Ever wonder why Manila gets so much airplay and the FOTC gets very little, if any?

IF Joe, would have come back from the FOTC with anything near the accomplishments that Ali managed, then Joe would have gotten the tip of the hat by the teeming throngs over the long haul.

From the moment Joe knocked him down, Ali got up, from what could have and perhaps should have spelled the end for almost any other fighter, and battled back for nearly 30 more rounds with Joe....and put a stop to Joe's smokin. And he managed quite a few other nice wins along the way as well.

Not So Joe. That was his mountain, and he did a good job ascending, a respectable K2 effort. But not Everest....that was Ali's mountain.


ya see? That's the qualitative difference in their stories. You really need to Give Ali his due. I know full well it took Joe to make Ali what he became. I'm under no illusions on that.

But K2 aint the tallest mountain.

"You've got to give Ali his due" BB




Buzz, do you not understand that I generally have Ali and Louis nip and tuck for #1 ATG? (have Smoke lower because of much less time at the top, though I take him in a battle of primes with Ali)


This is not giving Ali his due???


btw, there is a reason why K2 is known as the Mountaineer's Mountain. It clearly exceeds Everest as a test.

You know Yancey, this once again shows far more that we agree than disagree. I know you rate Ali Highly....in fact the only time you really smack him is when Joe's name is mentioned.

I even appreciate your K2 contextual reference....

[Ambling Alp II]

I know a lot of of people who remember well the three Ali-Frazier fights.

Some were Ali fans and some didn't like him.
All thought the third fight was by far the best.
Have never heard any of them use the term "FOTC".
None think the first fight was more significant than the first.
None think Ali was was as good when he fought Frazier as he was during his first title reign.

[elmersalsa]

My dad told me the first Ali vs Frazier was TFOC.
The Ring Magazine published and hyped the first fight as TFOC.

The Ali vs Frazier I fight in Madison Square Garden in NYC, is by far, the most anticipated fight of all time.

Ali vs Frazier III was indeed a great fight, a top 3 fight ever. But was not better than the first war. It was a brutal contest like fight #1, but, fight #1 had more than just a great fight. Ali vs Frazier I, surpassed the expectations of a great and anticipated fight. May JAH bless both men. Those two, when they had to face each other, gave us the thrill of our lifetimes.