jezzamundo wrote:The OP specifically states that it's a resume based list. I originally read your post and thought it said top 100, which would be more reasonable.Chepppaaa wrote:Stuarty30 wrote:
Of all time? Nah!
tell me 7 boxers techniquly better than those guys, better in footwork, speed, upper body movemant, punch variation.
Pftt. I'm so sick of hearing this. He's not a small MW either. He's lean as fornicate, and is dedicated enough to not blow up between fights, which probably helps. You talk about Froch, and hey there's a good example: was always near the weight, didn't really drain, yet looked like a pretty damn big SMW to me. Wasn't Hagler shorter than GGG? Tell me the fight you saw GGG in where you thought he looked a lot smaller than his opponent? Stevens was a muscle dwarf. Lemieux was a muscle dwarf. I thought Murray was a big guy but when they did press conferences I thought GGG looked bigger: bigger head, bigger fists. Geale was supposed to have weighed more in the ring but he still looked the smaller man to me. You do get giant MW's, like Kelly Pavlik or Chavez Jr. Or Edison Miranda. But GGG isn't small.Leonid wrote:GGG is not a big middleweight though, he is already 34 and never moved up a single weightclass.clopixolacuphase wrote:The obvious ones I think are GGG, Kovalev and Ward. None of them are locks but they are the best fighters of this generation and have thier career defining fights ahead of them. You can mug Ward off all you want for his opposition recently but his resume is very impressive.
They could all potentially fight each other as well, if GGG has the stones to do a Hopkins and jump up to LHW
Did Hagler and Monzon move up?clopixolacuphase wrote:Pftt. I'm so sick of hearing this. He's not a small MW either. He's lean as eff, and is dedicated enough to not blow up between fights, which probably helps. You talk about Froch, and hey there's a good example: was always near the weight, didn't really drain, yet looked like a pretty damn big SMW to me. Wasn't Hagler shorter than GGG? Tell me the fight you saw GGG in where you thought he looked a lot smaller than his opponent? Stevens was a muscle dwarf. Lemieux was a muscle dwarf. I thought Murray was a big guy but when they did press conferences I thought GGG looked bigger: bigger head, bigger fists. Geale was supposed to have weighed more in the ring but he still looked the smaller man to me. You do get giant MW's, like Kelly Pavlik or Chavez Jr. Or Edison Miranda. But GGG isn't small.Leonid wrote:GGG is not a big middleweight though, he is already 34 and never moved up a single weightclass.clopixolacuphase wrote:The obvious ones I think are GGG, Kovalev and Ward. None of them are locks but they are the best fighters of this generation and have thier career defining fights ahead of them. You can mug Ward off all you want for his opposition recently but his resume is very impressive.
They could all potentially fight each other as well, if GGG has the stones to do a Hopkins and jump up to LHW
Damn man, all the great fighters move up. It's pathetic to suggest that he can't do it. Of course he can.
I agree that GGG's resume comes nowhere close to B-Hop's, but we should remember that Bernard was MW Champion for nearly 7 years before he fought Tito and the level of challengers up to that point were no better than what GGG has faced. If social media was around during the 90's, Hopkins would probably get criticised a lot too. Golovkin still has time to create a legacy if other top fighters step up to the plate.clopixolacuphase wrote: Haggler didn't really need to move up. He had his defining fights against guys who moved up to face him. Hearn was huge and of course Leonard, they both fought at super middle anyway didn't they? Duran was a little guy but Hagler was only about 5'9" anyway, so there wasn't much difference in size. He had great rivals beneath him. Some of the greatest who over laced them up. Who is there for GGG? Gingerhead and Cotto are too frightened of him. Mayweather never had any interest. MW is full of nobodies. None of them are brilliant fighters or exciting fights. SMW isn't much better. Jack and Degale and Ramirez (who I thought GGG might be in talks with) are slowly carving out decent resumes but none of them are great fighters. Hopkins, a true ATG fighter, took all the belts at MW, scalped some smaller fighters who took the plunge in DLH and Trinidad, and then jumped to LHW for the glory. Right now, as much as I like him, GGG can't even lace Hopkin's shoes. He's supposed to have kicked Kovalev's arse in sparring, and Ward would have been his defining fight if he hadn't moved up. Haggler and Monzon... Sure they stayed the same weight thier whole careers. So what. What do you want me to say?
Your list is ridiculously biased and ignorant... Golovkin has more Middleweight Title Fights without a single loss than any Middleweight in the History of Boxing.. and more Title Fights KO wins than any Middleweight in History.. Canelo is a chicken livered coward for giving up his Lineal Title instead of facing a probable KO defeat at the hands of GGG... Sugar Ray Robinson's record in Middleweight Title Defenses is 3-3 with 2 KO wins... Gennady Golovkin's record in Middleweight Title Defenses is 16-0 with 16 KO wins... Robinson lost to chinny Randy Turpin.. Crude and awkward Gene Fullmer.. and Little (Welterweight) Carmen Basilio... They weren't exactly undefeated or master boxers and they beat SRR... Actual World Title Fights mean more to me than fighting long strings of cherry picked record padding fights to fatten your overall record... After Robinson won the Middleweight Title he fought 8 record padding fights in 4 months ... and then lost his 1st Title Defense.Lackeos wrote:Probably will be in
Saul Alvarez. The amount that he's accomplished by age 25 is insane. He's pretty much the Oscar De La Hoya of this era.
Roman Gonzalez. At age 28, this kid's resume is deep as hell. He has shown that he is willing and able to make all of the big fights out there and he is limited by nothing.
Maybe
maybe Danny Garcia. By age 28, he's beat Campbell, Holt, Morales, Khan, Judah, Matthysse, Peterson, Malignaggi, and Guerrero. He has a ton of time to continue extending that already super deep resume. He has a lot of chance of making it as long as the top fighters at WW aren't too much for him.
Andre Ward already proved that he had the ability to make it, if he kept his activity and level of competition as high as they used to be. After the Super Six and Dawson, Ward can pretty much lock-up a top 100 slot by coasting as long as he continues fighting mere contenders, which he currently isn't doing.
Terrence Crawford. The winner of Crawford - Postol is gonna be huge. But Postol has the shallower resume and is 32, he won't have the opportunity to parlay that into a top 100 all-time career. Crawford is 28 with 7 title wins and wins over Gamboa and Burns. If Crawford beats Postol, he'll be in a good position to build a top 100 career.
Frampton - Santa Cruz winner. Both of these guys are young enough, elite enough, and have deep enough resumes. Whoever wins will be in a good spot to have a big career.
Probably won't be in
Golovkin. He's 34. He hasn't done anything yet to even sniff at the top 100 all-time. He's admittedly had a lot of title defenses, and that's cool, but not a single elite opponent. If he's lucky, he'll get to fight and beat a single elite opponent right before he retires, like Joe Calzaghe did, and then he'll achieve a similar ranking to Joe. But that's if he's even lucky enough for that to happen. Right now, his resume is shaping-up to be the same as Michaelczewski's or Ottke's.
Kovalev. His wins against Pascal and past-it Hopkins are respectable. He obviously has the ability. But he's 33, he only has 8 title wins, and he's hardly fought a single in-prime elite fighter. Unless he is lucky enough to get a shot at Ward or Stevenson, the clock is going to run out on him before he gets a chance to do anything big enough. Plus, with Stevenson being 38 and Ward being super inactive, both are losing credibility as elite opponents faster than the fight may even take place.
Rigondeaux. A win over Donaire is nice. But at age 35, Rigondeaux has amassed all of 16 professional wins and a win over Donaire. Most top 100 all-time fighters have already accomplished more than that by the time they're 25 or 26. He's only fighting about once a year, and his recent / next opponents are clubfighters. He's hardly going to do anything to build on his resume before he retires. It's not going to happen, he's really not even worth mentioning.
Bradley. He has a win over JMM, and that should be enough. He's never lost to anyone but Pacquiao. He has ability. But he needs to start piling-up the wins over more world class opponents, and at age 32, he may not have enough time.
Barthelemy. He has tons of ability and the size to keep moving up 3 or 4 more divisions. He's only 29 and he's cleared-out everyone that was in his division last year. Titles in 2 divisions already, perhaps 5 or 6 divisions before retirement. However, wins against Mendez, DeMarco, Shafikov, and Bey probably are not quite enough to say he's on-track for top 100 all-time.
Tyson Fury. His resume is already elite. He is young. It's just hard to accept that he has the ability to do it.
Lomachenko. He is age 29 and has not even fought a divisional top 5 opponent yet. He has so much ground to cover (i.e. he's barely even started a career, and pretty much still has the whole way to go), he is barely worth even mentioning in this discussion.
Young prospects that have ability, legit wins, plenty of time to make hay, but a long way to go before they get there:
The Charlos, Javier Fortuna, Jezreel Corrales, Errol Spence, Naoya Inoue, Juan Francisco Estrada, Josh Warrington.
Look I think Golovkin is really good. I like him. I just think he's too good to stay at MW, where there is no defining fight for him. My original post listed GGG as a potential ATG alongside Kovalev and Ward, and suggested it was not impossible that they could fight each other. GGG might fail in that mission but don't forget that that Hagler-Hearns (a lot of people's favorite fight of all time) was a welterweight going at a middleweight. Hearns might of lost but he was in one of the best fights ever and that enhances his legacy.ElJefe wrote:I agree that GGG's resume comes nowhere close to B-Hop's, but we should remember that Bernard was MW Champion for nearly 7 years before he fought Tito and the level of challengers up to that point were no better than what GGG has faced. If social media was around during the 90's, Hopkins would probably get criticised a lot too. Golovkin still has time to create a legacy if other top fighters step up to the plate.clopixolacuphase wrote: Haggler didn't really need to move up. He had his defining fights against guys who moved up to face him. Hearn was huge and of course Leonard, they both fought at super middle anyway didn't they? Duran was a little guy but Hagler was only about 5'9" anyway, so there wasn't much difference in size. He had great rivals beneath him. Some of the greatest who over laced them up. Who is there for GGG? Gingerhead and Cotto are too frightened of him. Mayweather never had any interest. MW is full of nobodies. None of them are brilliant fighters or exciting fights. SMW isn't much better. Jack and Degale and Ramirez (who I thought GGG might be in talks with) are slowly carving out decent resumes but none of them are great fighters. Hopkins, a true ATG fighter, took all the belts at MW, scalped some smaller fighters who took the plunge in DLH and Trinidad, and then jumped to LHW for the glory. Right now, as much as I like him, GGG can't even lace Hopkin's shoes. He's supposed to have kicked Kovalev's arse in sparring, and Ward would have been his defining fight if he hadn't moved up. Haggler and Monzon... Sure they stayed the same weight thier whole careers. So what. What do you want me to say?
a couple more big wins and Roman's resume looks very, very good indeed IMOPredatorHayds wrote:Gonzalez deserves a place.
Could potentially be one of the best if not the best Flyweight of all time.
.
Can't argue with any of that. GGG would cement himself as an ATG with wins over Ward and Kovalev. Even if he doesn't beat them, being in good, competitive fights would arguably be better for his resume historically speaking than any fight at 160. But I would quite like to see him fight Saunders before he does anything else, I don't think it's a competitive fight but it would be nice for him to achieve what only Hopkins has done and unify all 4 world titles.clopixolacuphase wrote:Look I think Golovkin is really good. I like him. I just think he's too good to stay at MW, where there is no defining fight for him. My original post listed GGG as a potential ATG alongside Kovalev and Ward, and suggested it was not impossible that they could fight each other. GGG might fail in that mission but don't forget that that Hagler-Hearns (a lot of people's favorite fight of all time) was a welterweight going at a middleweight. Hearns might of lost but he was in one of the best fights ever and that enhances his legacy.ElJefe wrote:I agree that GGG's resume comes nowhere close to B-Hop's, but we should remember that Bernard was MW Champion for nearly 7 years before he fought Tito and the level of challengers up to that point were no better than what GGG has faced. If social media was around during the 90's, Hopkins would probably get criticised a lot too. Golovkin still has time to create a legacy if other top fighters step up to the plate.clopixolacuphase wrote: Haggler didn't really need to move up. He had his defining fights against guys who moved up to face him. Hearn was huge and of course Leonard, they both fought at super middle anyway didn't they? Duran was a little guy but Hagler was only about 5'9" anyway, so there wasn't much difference in size. He had great rivals beneath him. Some of the greatest who over laced them up. Who is there for GGG? Gingerhead and Cotto are too frightened of him. Mayweather never had any interest. MW is full of nobodies. None of them are brilliant fighters or exciting fights. SMW isn't much better. Jack and Degale and Ramirez (who I thought GGG might be in talks with) are slowly carving out decent resumes but none of them are great fighters. Hopkins, a true ATG fighter, took all the belts at MW, scalped some smaller fighters who took the plunge in DLH and Trinidad, and then jumped to LHW for the glory. Right now, as much as I like him, GGG can't even lace Hopkin's shoes. He's supposed to have kicked Kovalev's arse in sparring, and Ward would have been his defining fight if he hadn't moved up. Haggler and Monzon... Sure they stayed the same weight thier whole careers. So what. What do you want me to say?
You have great fighters that never jumped weight but they had the opponents. Froch for instance (who I don't think should be on a top 100 list) fought Ward, Kessler twice, an unbeaten Bute, the 2 Groves fights (the second in front of a quite historically sized crowd), Abraham, Dirrell, Taylor. In there he had plenty of big names and there really wasn't the call for him to move up. By the time he retired, the fight everybody wanted really was GGG, a smaller fighter than would have moved up to meet him. Froch had ropey footwork and a porous defence and won through grit and determination and achieved beyond what he should have done. He was a fun fighter who should be remembered.
Golovkin on the other hand is a fantastic little fighter who is far more talented than Froch, has all the moves, cuts the ring off beautifully, punches like a train, and supposedly eats the punches of his overmatched opponents to make the fight entertaining. He's never even looked hurt. His skills and power is there for all to see, but he cannot get a fight with a little guy. They are just not brave enough. They hand belts to him. They know they get beaten, and badly. Maybe this is enough to make GGG's legacy alone, and as long as he gets that last belt of Saunders, then he has unified and is one of the best MW's ever. But cannot be considered as good as Hagler and there is always the spectre of Hopkins, the last great MW.
Any combination of GGG, Ward and Kovalev. Maybe the eventual king of the SMW division could make things interesting. Rematches, trilogies, whatever. These could be our era's defining fights.
clopixolacuphase wrote:Pftt. I'm so sick of hearing this. He's not a small MW either. He's lean as eff, and is dedicated enough to not blow up between fights, which probably helps. You talk about Froch, and hey there's a good example: was always near the weight, didn't really drain, yet looked like a pretty damn big SMW to me. Wasn't Hagler shorter than GGG? Tell me the fight you saw GGG in where you thought he looked a lot smaller than his opponent? Stevens was a muscle dwarf. Lemieux was a muscle dwarf. I thought Murray was a big guy but when they did press conferences I thought GGG looked bigger: bigger head, bigger fists. Geale was supposed to have weighed more in the ring but he still looked the smaller man to me. You do get giant MW's, like Kelly Pavlik or Chavez Jr. Or Edison Miranda. But GGG isn't small.Leonid wrote:GGG is not a big middleweight though, he is already 34 and never moved up a single weightclass.clopixolacuphase wrote:The obvious ones I think are GGG, Kovalev and Ward. None of them are locks but they are the best fighters of this generation and have thier career defining fights ahead of them. You can mug Ward off all you want for his opposition recently but his resume is very impressive.
They could all potentially fight each other as well, if GGG has the stones to do a Hopkins and jump up to LHW
Damn man, all the great fighters move up. It's pathetic to suggest that he can't do it. Of course he can.
He has almost unified the five belts, so I think there's sufficient merit in him staying at MW and trying to unify the five, even if it prevents him from getting bigger fights. Especially since there are no legacy-defining opponents at SMW right now, just James DeGale and Gilberto Ramirez.clopixolacuphase wrote:Look I think Golovkin is really good. I like him. I just think he's too good to stay at MW, where there is no defining fight for him.
No, they don't, although GGG was 172lb 30 days before the Murray fight and comes into the ring around 170lb. I disagree that Martinez was bigger. GGG is a solid, natural middleweight, but certainly not a big one. People talk about him never moving up in weight, forgetting that he fought at 141lb with a same-day weigh in when he was 18 in the amateurs.SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Big middleweights don't weigh 164 thirty days before a fight. Sergio was bigger and people called him small.