Who is The #1 Heavyweight of All Time?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yes... He retired very healthy, wealthy, and maybe happy... But his ATG ranking dipped because he reneged on the rematch he promised Vitali Klitschko

I doubt Lennox has had any sleepless nights worring about his ATG ranking.

He didn't lose anything either. Beating the dogshit out of Vitali for his swan song elevated him. Very decisive win, no need for another.

[Kalan]

Ffs. I say "indicates very broadly that they are somewhere from #2 down." You interpret this as "They are #2", and go on a three paragraph rant based wholly on a misunderstanding that would shame the average 5 year old. How is possible for anyone to talk to you about anything when you can't understand the most basic points?

Incidentally your obsession with being knocked out is also misguided. A moment's lapse of concentration can get you knocked out. Losing every round clearly means you've been comprehensively outclassed.

Yeah... It indicates that they could be WAY down from #2. You don't have the sense of a 1-year old - I'm not obsessed with being knocked out.. But if you get knocked out you're f*cked so far as winning...so you damned well better not GET knocked out -- because it doesn't indicate you're a good fighter. You're beaten more clearly then if you lost every round because your 5-year-old can tell who won. The judges could have stayed home. And not only that but Lewis was preforming poorly before he suffered those KO losses.

Yes. it does. It absolutely indicates that, which is why you look like a fool when you shout "I disagree" and go on to state exactly that. Please try and understand, it's almost painful.

You're painfully stupid.

[gp.]

Yeah... It indicates that they could be WAY down from #2. You don't have the sense of a 1-year old - I'm not obsessed with being knocked out.. But if you get knocked out you're f*cked so far as winning...so you damned well better not GET knocked out -- because it doesn't indicate you're a good fighter. You're beaten more clearly then if you lost every round because your 5-year-old can tell who won. The judges could have stayed home. And not only that but Lewis was preforming poorly before he suffered those KO losses.

Yes. it does. It absolutely indicates that, which is why you look like a fool when you shout "I disagree" and go on to state exactly that. Please try and understand, it's almost painful.

You're painfully stupid.

Such a witty riposte. You must be sparkling company.

Tray and address the facts of the matter, and make a good case as to why you should insult me. Just shouting "no, you are!" doesn't even upset your target. it's a wasted insult.

[Kalan]

FO stupid

[keithmoonhangover]

McCall and Rahman landed lucky punches, simple ...

There was nothing lucky about either punch. McCall threw that punch with the intention of it landing and so did Rahman. Luck had nothing to do with it.

[Kalan]

Yeah???? ... Well they weren't so lucky in the rematches and Lewis had no problem rematching them because he said "Those were lottery shots."

I don't think they were lottery shots... They were well planned and well delivered... But they were a bit lucky because Lewis wasn't paying attention.

[keithmoonhangover]

But they were a bit lucky because Lewis wasn't paying attention.

Epic silliness

[Kalan]

You're silly... an maybe a little dense... If your opponent's head isn't in the fight, that's a stroke of good fortune.

[uppercutfromhades]

Ali for me.

I have tremendous respect for Louis but I'd favour Ali in a H2H and I feel Ali beat better competition. Ergo I have to place Ali #1.

HW is my fave division. It's different at that weight, those monstrously sized titans clashing is something else. Much as I love the other classes.

[Kalan]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot... especially Louis, at least 9 times... They have 8 losses between them and both were stopped.

Vitali Klitschko has never been knocked down, and he's never been behind on points. He only suffered 2 losses.. One loss came on cuts from fouls when he was winning on all scorecards -- and in the other loss he suffered a completely severed rotator cuff injury when he was miles head on all scorecards.

Anthony Joshua has never been badly rocked, knocked wobbly. He's never been knocked down, or ever forced to grab and hold during a fight.. He's never been driven to the ropes... and he's never allowed an opponent to go past the 7th round... He's lost one round out of 41.

Luis Ortiz has dominated very opponent he's ever fought in a 25-0 Undefeated career. He's never been knocked down.

[Syntax Error]

Lewis retired after they made Vitali his mandatory challenger -- and after vociferously proclaiming he would give Vitali a rematch.. LL knew he dodged a bullet and wouldn't have Lou Moret as his referee in the rematch.

Lennox knew his best days were behind him and wisely decided to retire having beaten every opponent he faced in a professional boxing ring.
He retired a very happy, healthy and wealthy man - more than can be said for some.

Yes... He retired very healthy, wealthy, and maybe happy... But his ATG ranking dipped because he reneged on the rematch he promised Vitali Klitschko

Who decided that?

I don't purport to speak for Lewis, but I'm quite sure he sleeps well at night & is quite happy with the legacy he has left behind.

The proof is here; he hasn't fought in 12 years & we're still talking about him & we all recognise him as an ATG.

[Syntax Error]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot... especially Louis, at least 9 times... They have 8 losses between them and both were stopped.

Vitali Klitschko has never been knocked down, and he's never been behind on points. He only suffered 2 losses.. One loss came on cuts from fouls when he was winning on all scorecards -- and in the other loss he suffered a completely severed rotator cuff injury when he was miles head on all scorecards.

Anthony Joshua has never been badly rocked, knocked wobbly. He's never been knocked down, or ever forced to grab and hold during a fight.. He's never been driven to the ropes... and he's never allowed an opponent to go past the 7th round... He's lost one round out of 41.

Luis Ortiz has dominated very opponent he's ever fought in a 25-0 Undefeated career. He's never been knocked down.

Ali never got knocked down a lot.

In a career spanning 21 years & 61 fights, having fought some of the most brutal punchers in HW history, he was legitimately floored 3 times; got up all 3 times & went on to win 2 of those fights.

[SteveO]

Ali never got knocked down a lot.
In a career spanning 21 years & 61 fights, having fought some of the most brutal punchers in HW history, he was legitimately floored 3 times; got up all 3 times & went on to win 2 of those fights.

Correct, plus he gave Cooper and Frazier opportunities in rematches to do it again and they couldn't.
It's not the getting knocked down that counts, it's the getting back up and winning that matters.

[gp.]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot... especially Louis, at least 9 times... They have 8 losses between them and both were stopped.

Vitali Klitschko has never been knocked down, and he's never been behind on points. He only suffered 2 losses.. One loss came on cuts from fouls when he was winning on all scorecards -- and in the other loss he suffered a completely severed rotator cuff injury when he was miles head on all scorecards.

Anthony Joshua has never been badly rocked, knocked wobbly. He's never been knocked down, or ever forced to grab and hold during a fight.. He's never been driven to the ropes... and he's never allowed an opponent to go past the 7th round... He's lost one round out of 41.

Luis Ortiz has dominated very opponent he's ever fought in a 25-0 Undefeated career. He's never been knocked down.

Joshua should be ashamed of himself for losing one round against the people he's fought. You really have a major problem with the concept of level of competition, don't you.

[gp.]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot... especially Louis, at least 9 times... They have 8 losses between them and both were stopped.

Vitali Klitschko has never been knocked down, and he's never been behind on points. He only suffered 2 losses.. One loss came on cuts from fouls when he was winning on all scorecards -- and in the other loss he suffered a completely severed rotator cuff injury when he was miles head on all scorecards.

Anthony Joshua has never been badly rocked, knocked wobbly. He's never been knocked down, or ever forced to grab and hold during a fight.. He's never been driven to the ropes... and he's never allowed an opponent to go past the 7th round... He's lost one round out of 41.

Luis Ortiz has dominated very opponent he's ever fought in a 25-0 Undefeated career. He's never been knocked down.

Ali never got knocked down a lot.

In a career spanning 21 years & 61 fights, having fought some of the most brutal punchers in HW history, he was legitimately floored 3 times; got up all 3 times & went on to win 2 of those fights.

That is a lot to Kalan. The likes of Too Tall Jones, Wilt Chamberlain and Doris Day never got knocked down in a boxing ring at all, and are therefore better.

Ali got knocked down by a man who couldn't even swim, while Chamberlain once bumped into a guy coming out of an elevator and was barely even shaken.

[Kalan]

Too Tall Jones never got knocked down idiot... He was shoved down and brutalized by a smashing left hook as he sat on the canvas... That's when Jones first realized the Boxing establishment was out to get him... When that foul blow wasn't called.

[Kalan]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot... especially Louis, at least 9 times... They have 8 losses between them and both were stopped.

Vitali Klitschko has never been knocked down, and he's never been behind on points. He only suffered 2 losses.. One loss came on cuts from fouls when he was winning on all scorecards -- and in the other loss he suffered a completely severed rotator cuff injury when he was miles head on all scorecards.

Anthony Joshua has never been badly rocked, knocked wobbly. He's never been knocked down, or ever forced to grab and hold during a fight.. He's never been driven to the ropes... and he's never allowed an opponent to go past the 7th round... He's lost one round out of 41.

Luis Ortiz has dominated very opponent he's ever fought in a 25-0 Undefeated career. He's never been knocked down.

Joshua should be ashamed of himself for losing one round against the people he's fought. You really have a major problem with the concept of level of competition, don't you.

Let's talk about competition and how it's going. There's 4 times as many professional boxers today as there were in the 1960's and early 70's.. A huge slice of the planet is producing professional boxers that DIDN'T produce ANY before 1990... Boxing programs have been updated and up-scaled everywhere but the USA. But we're supposedly trying to keep up now -- with a new regime of trainers and fundraisers -- which is what they always say just before we crash in the Olympic Games.

I've watched many 50's, 60's, and 70's fights back in the day - featuring Heavyweights who weren't exactly polished or anything close to it. Such as: Don Cockell... Tommy Jackson... Tom McNeely... Pete Rademacher... Roy Harris... Brian London... Alfredo Evangelista... Chuck Wepner... Jean Pierre Coopman... Terry Daniels... Dave Zyglewitz... Manuel Ramos... Ron Stander... Richard Dunn etc.

The top Heavyweights today don't look as bad: Anthony Joshua... Tyson Fury... Luis Ortiz... Deontay Wilder... Wladimir Klitschko... Alexander Povetkin... David Haye... Andy Ruiz... Joseph Parker... Dillian Whyte... Charles Martin... Bryant Jennings... Hughie Fury... Erkan Teper... Kubrat Pulev... Johann Duhaupas... Ruslan Chagaev... Bermane Stiverne... Lucas Browne... Malik Scott... Carlos Takam... Mike Perez... Alexander Ustinov... Dereck Chisora... Christian Hammer... Robert Helenius... Steve Cunningham... Artur Szpilka... Otto Wallin... Czar Glazkov... Dominic Breazeale... Amir Mansour... and Gary Cornish. Who can forget Gary?

Boxing training facilities and strength training have progressed a long way -- and the athletes are bigger, taller, stronger, and faster.

[L.A. kidd]

rocky Marciano for no1, let us remember he never lost a fight, let us remember he had 43 kos out of 49 fights.

let us remember his devastating punch, and let us remember he knocked the great joe louis out of the ring.

a lot of guys knocked louis down, but when rocky hit him, he fell apart like a 2 dollar watch.

[Kalan]

rocky Marciano for no1, let us remember he never lost a fight, let us remember he had 43 kos out of 49 fights.

let us remember his devastating punch, and let us remember he knocked the great joe louis out of the ring.

a lot of guys knocked louis down, but when rocky hit him, he fell apart like a 2 dollar watch.

LOL.. Archie Moore knocked Marciano down and went 9... Moore couldn't knock Patterson down with his best shot and was gone quickly.

Don Cockell went 9 with Rocky Marciano.. Cockell was previously knocked out by LHW Jimmy Slade in 4. Even Middleweight Randy Turpin KO'd Cockell previously... Cockell was softer than a pastry and more fragile than China.

Louis was old, doddering, and had health issues. He was easily beaten by Ezzard Charles earlier... Charles fought most of his career at 160 to 175.

[BoxBuzz]

Too Tall Jones never got knocked down idiot... He was shoved down and brutalized by a smashing left hook as he sat on the canvas... That's when Jones first realized the Boxing establishment was out to get him... When that foul blow wasn't called.

No, now that's not accurate. It was not "the first time Jones realized the Boxing establishment was out to get him". Rather....it was the first time he came to the awareness...."oh yeah, the ref did say protect yourself at all times".

[BoxBuzz]

Both Louis and Ali got knocked down a lot...

Ali never got knocked down a lot.

In a career spanning 21 years & 61 fights, having fought some of the most brutal punchers in HW history, he was legitimately floored 3 times; got up all 3 times & went on to win 2 of those fights.

Well like with some of the pretzel logic being used in many of these discussions, it's all relative.

Let's face it, Ali got knocked down infinitely more times than the Great Pyramid or the Sphinx. Which were never knocked down in thousands of years. (Though Ali's nose was never broken, something the Sphinx can't claim) And Ali was knocked down 3 times more often than the twin towers, which were only knocked down once.

[Kalan]

Too Tall Jones never got knocked down idiot... He was shoved down and brutalized by a smashing left hook as he sat on the canvas... That's when Jones first realized the Boxing establishment was out to get him... When that foul blow wasn't called.

No, now that's not accurate. It was not "the first time Jones realized the Boxing establishment was out to get him". Rather....it was the first time he came to the awareness...."oh yeah, the ref did say protect yourself at all times".

You don't usually have your hands up to protect yourself if somebody shoves you to the canvas... You're using your hands to break your fall... and that was the ONLY good punch his 11-fight opponent landed on Jones because both Too Tall's hands were on the canvas when he was smashed with that left hook.

[BoxBuzz]

Guess Jones needed to "multi task"

[Kalan]

He DIDN'T... He won DESPITE the foul -- AND the referee not calling it... He's NOT the only boxer ever hit when he was on the canvas.

Montel Griffith took a knee...but he wasn't shoved down and wasn't on his butt... and Roy Jones took the liberty of popping him one... Got DQ'd too

[Tomasino]

What kind of people discuss Ed 'too slow' Jones in a thread about the greatest heavyweights?