WBC suspends Povetkin

[Rob3_142]

"The tests given in an independent laboratory in Lausanne [Switzerland] are clean"

What part do you not understand? Did you actually read it at all?

The ‘B’ sample was opened earlier this week and VADA confirmed it also tested positive for ostarine, however Povetkin’s promoter, Andrey Ryabinsky, still proclaims his charge’s innocence.

“An American laboratory confirmed ostarine was found in Povetkin’s ‘B’ sample. The tests given in an independent laboratory in Lausanne [Switzerland] are clean,”

I did read it, but there's two conflicting statements. One from the testing body, VADA, and one from the promoter who's personally funded Povetkin's career. If it's all the same, I'll take the word of the former.

Povetkin has had samples independently made and tested in Laussane, Switzerland (a WADA approved facility,just like the LA facility), and those results have come back clean.

The LA facility simply appearantly wasn't independent, that's the only difference... That's straight away the reason why the doping was found at such an odd moment.

There's a lot wrong with what you've wrote there. I can only hope that is a result of bad English, rather than what you actually mean.

Where do you really think we go from here? This lab said this, this lab said that, it's all anti-Russian rhetoric etc.

[Ilya Muromets]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

[boxing_rocks]

It's the same sample...

No. There is only one B sample. It was sealed and opened by VADA when Povetkin provided it. Nobody else tested it.

Povetkin has had samples independently made and tested in Laussane, Switzerland (a WADA approved facility,just like the LA facility), and those results have come back clean.

Yes, but the Swiss lab tested samples taken on different days than the failed sample.

[Rob3_142]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

[Ilya Muromets]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

Thanks for watching it, Rob. I agree with you about the unnecessary swearing and shouting, but I think he makes some excellent points in this, and his previous video that I watched, that you are glossing over or ignoring, so we disagree. Why do so many athletes take it? Well, they don't anymore, but it was perfectly legal and sold in health food stores until very recently and the length of time it remains detectable in the blood is not known. So many athletes take vitamin pills and other legal supplements too, and one of which might be declared illegal in the future. My main objection to all this drug test business is that it is being administered in a very questionable and very biased way by very suspect people.

[Rob3_142]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

Thanks for watching it, Rob. I agree with you about the unnecessary swearing and shouting, but I think he makes some excellent points in this, and his previous video that I watched, that you are glossing over or ignoring, so we disagree. Why do so many athletes take it? Well, they don't anymore, but it was perfectly legal and sold in health food stores until very recently and the length of time it remains detectable in the blood is not known. So many athletes take vitamin pills and other legal supplements too, and one of which might be declared illegal in the future. My main objection to all this drug test business is that it is being administered in a very questionable and very biased way by very suspect people.

I'm not ignoring or glossing over anything he's saying. I'm already well aware of the facts he was pointing out (except the statements made by Catlin). But they're still not relevant as Meldonium is not the drug in question, Ostarine is.

The only reason Meldonium is no longer being taken is because it is banned. If it was not banned, it would still be widely used. This is my question, why was the drug used as so for such a long time by so many people if it has absolutely no benefits?

[Ilya Muromets]

I'm not ignoring or glossing over anything he's saying. I'm already well aware of the facts he was pointing out (except the statements made by Catlin). But they're still not relevant as Meldonium is not the drug in question, Ostarine is.

The only reason Meldonium is no longer being taken is because it is banned. If it was not banned, it would still be widely used. This is my question, why was the drug used as so for such a long time by so many people if it has absolutely no benefits?

I think you are glossing over what he said and trying to cherry pick, like why was Povetkin suddenly multi tested right before his fight with Wilder - and Wilder had no intention of fighting him because he never even went to Russia to train for the fight - while other fighters fail their drug test and no problema - and some fighters just outright refuse to take it - which is what Russian athletes should be doing - and again no problema. As for Ostarine it was supposedly found but in such miniscule amount that it is meaningless because that stuff is also found in small amounts in food. As for why meldonium was used for so long by so many people if it has no benefits - go into a health food store or health food section of a supermarket or look at the ads in bodybuilding magazines and look at all the popular supplements they are advertising, ordinary vitamin pills too, fish oil capsules, whatever - most of them have absolutely no benefits either, but people have been taking them for years - and many if fact do more harm than good. Even if you stuff yourself with all the real powerful steroids - none of which anyone even claims to have found on Povetkin - that you can get your paws on it won't turn you into a heavyweight champ or world class athlete.

I'd like to see real drug control in sports, but administered fairly - not by some sheister Las Vegas doctor - and focusing on the strong steroids like the crap that bodybuilders and wrasslers use - and quite possibly the big name in crowd in boxing that don't get played by this hoax - and not on minor supplements.

[Kalan]

Meldonium does have benefits... but as expert Don Catlin said, "There is absolute no evidence Meldonium is a PED." It was banned for commercial reasons and because it was developed and manufactured by an Eastern European country. If Abbot labs made it, it wouldn't be banned. They reviewed the drug for many years and it always got a pass. Now it's banned -- because you had more officials and lobbyists pushing for the ban this time.

Aspirin also helps with blood flow and is taken by millions... But is aspirin banned??? ... Hell no!!! It has some health benefits but it's not a PED.

As far as Ostarine is concerned.. It's kind of mysterious that Povetkin comes up with a positive Ostarine test after testing negative for years... Then, just as with the Wilder fight, hours before the Stiverne fight they come up with a fraction of a nanogram of Ostarine being in Povetkin's sample... This smacks of corruption because Povetkin swears he has never took the drug. Independent labs---which he also uses because he doesn't trust VADA---found him clean.

[evrenb]

If PED takers follow the correct cycle they rarely get caught...I cite Lance Armstrong...if they slip in their routine...a la Larry Olobamiwu..their tests can show the drugs they are on....
This is an interesting one...

http://m.imgur.com/UI7zz9U?r

[asdfjkl]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

"I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"
That's like saying, "I would recommend a full ban. If water has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"

An aspirine has pretty much the same effect as meldonium actually, now should we ban all Americans that ever used an aspirin? I don't think so, but that's basically what the Americans succesfully with the Russians. A cup of coffee has even more effect as meldonium.

[asdfjkl]

No. There is only one B sample. It was sealed and opened by VADA when Povetkin provided it. Nobody else tested it.

Povetkin has had samples independently made and tested in Laussane, Switzerland (a WADA approved facility,just like the LA facility), and those results have come back clean.

Yes, but the Swiss lab tested samples taken on different days than the failed sample.

What makes you think that? And even if they did, that would prove even more that there has never been taken any Ostarine, since the values should be loads and loads higher. Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world in 2016, the tests prove he has been innocent all the time.

[boxing_rocks]

Povetkin has had samples independently made and tested in Laussane, Switzerland (a WADA approved facility,just like the LA facility), and those results have come back clean.

Yes, but the Swiss lab tested samples taken on different days than the failed sample.

What makes you think that? And even if they did, that would prove even more that there has never been taken any Ostarine, since the values should be loads and loads higher. Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world in 2016, the tests prove he has been innocent all the time.

Ryabinsky was asked about the dates by a few people, and he didn't to respond, while responding to people blindly supporting his agenda.

[asdfjkl]

Yes, but the Swiss lab tested samples taken on different days than the failed sample.

What makes you think that? And even if they did, that would prove even more that there has never been taken any Ostarine, since the values should be loads and loads higher. Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world in 2016, the tests prove he has been innocent all the time.

Ryabinsky was asked about the dates by a few people, and he didn't to respond, while responding to people blindly supporting his agenda.

Could you show me that?

[Rob3_142]

Meldonium does have benefits... but as expert Don Catlin said, "There is absolute no evidence Meldonium is a PED." It was banned for commercial reasons and because it was developed and manufactured by an Eastern European country. If Abbot labs made it, it wouldn't be banned. They reviewed the drug for many years and it always got a pass. Now it's banned -- because you had more officials and lobbyists pushing for the ban this time.

Aspirin also helps with blood flow and is taken by millions... But is aspirin banned??? ... Hell no!!! It has some health benefits but it's not a PED.

As far as Ostarine is concerned.. It's kind of mysterious that Povetkin comes up with a positive Ostarine test after testing negative for years... Then, just as with the Wilder fight, hours before the Stiverne fight they come up with a fraction of a nanogram of Ostarine being in Povetkin's sample... This smacks of corruption because Povetkin swears he has never took the drug. Independent labs---which he also uses because he doesn't trust VADA---found him clean.

Come on man, you're such a conspiracy theorist. The ONLY reason Meldonium is banned is because it is manufactured in Eastern European countries? You're just embarrassing yourself now.

You're also being incredibly cynical too. The benefits of Meldonium massively outweigh the benefits of Aspirin, you know that.

I love how Povetkin 'swears' his innocent after being caught in a test, and that's good enough for you. The Kalan truth test is all we need. How many athletes juice, then scream their innocence from the roof top? Only to a few years down the line admit to their crime. An athlete's word is not worth the air it exists in.

[Kalan]

Don't be so ignorant and learn the facts... I'm NOT taking Povetkin's or Ryabinsky's word for anything.. I'm taking the word of WADA, VADA and the WBC and they're western entities who were backed into a corner and forced to admit Povetkin wasn't guilty of taking Meldonium after it was banned.

I'm taking Don Catlin's word for it because he's one of the top experts in the world on PEDs and he's an American -- that Meldonium isn't a PED

The facts are there for any intelligent person to check.. After months of "investigation" Povetkin was found guiltless of taking Medonium after it was banned.. The Wilder fight did NOT need to be postponed or killed.. The Ostarine test is fishy as Hell because they claim they found a fraction of a nanogram of the PED, which again was perfectly legal to take well into this century.

Two Russian promotions killed hours before the fights -- after Ryabinsky outbid American promoters for those fights.

[asdfjkl]

Meldonium does have benefits... but as expert Don Catlin said, "There is absolute no evidence Meldonium is a PED." It was banned for commercial reasons and because it was developed and manufactured by an Eastern European country. If Abbot labs made it, it wouldn't be banned. They reviewed the drug for many years and it always got a pass. Now it's banned -- because you had more officials and lobbyists pushing for the ban this time.

Aspirin also helps with blood flow and is taken by millions... But is aspirin banned??? ... Hell no!!! It has some health benefits but it's not a PED.

As far as Ostarine is concerned.. It's kind of mysterious that Povetkin comes up with a positive Ostarine test after testing negative for years... Then, just as with the Wilder fight, hours before the Stiverne fight they come up with a fraction of a nanogram of Ostarine being in Povetkin's sample... This smacks of corruption because Povetkin swears he has never took the drug. Independent labs---which he also uses because he doesn't trust VADA---found him clean.

Come on man, you're such a conspiracy theorist. The ONLY reason Meldonium is banned is because it is manufactured in Eastern European countries? You're just embarrassing yourself now.

You're also being incredibly cynical too. The benefits of Meldonium massively outweigh the benefits of Aspirin, you know that.

I love how Povetkin 'swears' his innocent after being caught in a test, and that's good enough for you. The Kalan truth test is all we need. How many athletes juice, then scream their innocence from the roof top? Only to a few years down the line admit to their crime. An athlete's word is not worth the air it exists in.

Euhm, no, you're wrong, Meldonium and aspirin are pretty compareble, and once again, a cup of coffee has a more positive effect for a boxer. Also note that, since the Russians have nothing to hide, they used a lie detector test, something Wilder never dared to take.

[boxing_rocks]

What makes you think that? And even if they did, that would prove even more that there has never been taken any Ostarine, since the values should be loads and loads higher. Povetkin was the most tested boxer in the entire world in 2016, the tests prove he has been innocent all the time.

Ryabinsky was asked about the dates by a few people, and he didn't to respond, while responding to people blindly supporting his agenda.

Could you show me that?

Only if you speak Russian. Click on this tweet:

https://twitter.com/Ryabinskiy/status/8 ... 8958825472

[Rob3_142]

If any of you looked at the video I posted above, which you didn't, you'd see that the top doctor in the field says that there is no evidence that meldonium enhances athletic ability even if a person was shoving it into his mouth like cornflakes. This drug testing business has turned into a big bunch of crooked boxing bull$hit.

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

"I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"
That's like saying, "I would recommend a full ban. If water has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"

An aspirine has pretty much the same effect as meldonium actually, now should we ban all Americans that ever used an aspirin? I don't think so, but that's basically what the Americans succesfully with the Russians. A cup of coffee has even more effect as meldonium.

I'm quite glad that you're not in charge of WADA...

For the benefit of all of us that are not biochemist, can you itemise the benefits of each drug?

[Rob3_142]

Don't be so ignorant and learn the facts... I'm NOT taking Povetkin's or Ryabinsky's word for anything.. I'm taking the word of WADA, VADA and the WBC and they're western entities who were backed into a corner and forced to admit Povetkin wasn't guilty of taking Meldonium after it was banned.

I'm taking Don Catlin's word for it because he's one of the top experts in the world on PEDs and he's an American -- that Meldonium isn't a PED

The facts are there for any intelligent person to check.. After months of "investigation" Povetkin was found guiltless of taking Medonium after it was banned.. The Wilder fight did NOT need to be postponed or killed.. The Ostarine test is fishy as Hell because they claim they found a fraction of a nanogram of the PED, which again was perfectly legal to take well into this century.

Two Russian promotions killed hours before the fights -- after Ryabinsky outbid American promoters for those fights.

Once again, I will reiterate that I acknowledge and respect the final decision made by VADA, WADA and the WBC over the ruling of Meldonium. I do not accept that the drug is not performance enhancing. After reading the literature, I have concluded that Meldonium definitely promotes physiological changes in the body which could, and probably do result in increases in physiological performances. I agree with Don Catlin's position that there is no evidence to support that Meldonium is performance enhancing, but only because insufficient studies have been done. I am confident that when these studies have been concluded that the results will show Meldonium is performance enhancing. This is my scientific opinion, and would accept any outcome.

As far as Ostarine goes, according to the WADA website, there is no minimum threshold, and any trace is sufficient for a positive test. Samples A and B both come back positive, so as a result failed test and correctly banned (albeit only with the WBC currently).

[asdfjkl]

Wow - that was 28 minutes of my life I will never get back. Was all the shouting and swearing really all that necessary to get his point across?

Firstly, the reason why Povetkin has been suspended by the WBC is not because of a failed test with Meldonium, it is because of a positive B sample to Ostarine. It has been established and confirmed (and talked to death about on this forum) that Povetkin has not been reprimanded for any failed Meldonium test. That video was completely irrelevant.

Don Catlin is a well established and respected anti-doping scientist, but you have to understand what he's saying, albeit true, there is still supporting evidence for it to be banned. There is a significant amount of evidence that Meldonium promotes physiological changes to the performance of the body (see below), which just has not been tested sufficiently in a performance context yet.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4616300473

Considering the benefits, I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?

"I would recommend a full ban. If Meldonium has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"
That's like saying, "I would recommend a full ban. If water has no performance benefits, why do so many athletes take it?"

An aspirine has pretty much the same effect as meldonium actually, now should we ban all Americans that ever used an aspirin? I don't think so, but that's basically what the Americans succesfully with the Russians. A cup of coffee has even more effect as meldonium.

I'm quite glad that you're not in charge of WADA...

For the benefit of all of us that are not biochemist, can you itemise the benefits of each drug?

Well, except that meldonium is a lot more healthy and aspirine also helps against pain, it got pretty much the same result, blood flowing better, which results into a better long term condition/shape, it will take longer before you're out of breath.
Americans act like meldonium is some kind of superdrugs, but it really ain't, not even close and it got many many millions of users, so it has nothing to do with topsport either and neither is it very expensive.

But it's up to you if you continue to act like retarded, or simply admit that this stuf is only abused to ban and annoy Russians/easten Europeans.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

There is no reason for the conspiracy, it cost everyone you egg heads blame money. Get a life, Povetkin is a perpetual doper.

[asdfjkl]

And about SARMS, like Ostarine, they are illegal in entire Europe, but mainly sold in America.
So in the first place it's really odd that this American drug is traced in a Russian boxer, especially since it's traced many weeks before the match (and there was nothing left at any other moment, not before, neither after) and on top of that in such an uncredebly low amount. An amount that makes sure the Americans can say, "yes, we are so good, we can trace it, but the rest of the world isn't good enough to trace it!" and ofcourse dumb Americans fall for such bullshit. On top of that, it will make the natural amount of testosteron in the human body go lower over time, which results in a naturally weaker person after about a month, something a boxer obviously doesn't want.

Long story short, the more you hear about the facts, the more it sounds like absolute bullshit.

[Ilya Muromets]

I think you are glossing over what he said and trying to cherry pick, like why was Povetkin suddenly multi tested right before his fight with Wilder - and Wilder had no intention of fighting him because he never even went to Russia to train for the fight - while other fighters fail their drug test and no problema - and some fighters just outright refuse to take it - which is what Russian athletes should be doing - and again no problema. As for Ostarine it was supposedly found but in such miniscule amount that it is meaningless because that stuff is also found in small amounts in food. As for why meldonium was used for so long by so many people if it has no benefits - go into a health food store or health food section of a supermarket or look at the ads in bodybuilding magazines and look at all the popular supplements they are advertising, ordinary vitamin pills too, fish oil capsules, whatever - most of them have absolutely no benefits either, but people have been taking them for years - and many if fact do more harm than good. Even if you stuff yourself with all the real powerful steroids - none of which anyone even claims to have found on Povetkin - that you can get your paws on it won't turn you into a heavyweight champ or world class athlete.

I'd like to see real drug control in sports, but administered fairly - not by some sheister Las Vegas doctor - and focusing on the strong steroids like the crap that bodybuilders and wrasslers use - and quite possibly the big name in crowd in boxing that don't get played by this hoax - and not on minor supplements.

I took the trouble to respond to you, Rob, and then you ignored my response.

[Ilya Muromets]

There is no reason for the conspiracy...

Of course there is. They want to protect their investments, the "in" fighters with the proper connections.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

There is no reason for the conspiracy...

Of course there is. They want to protect their investments, the "in" fighters with the proper connections.

You're a moron, that fight was worth 5 to wilder and al. Your life obviously has nothing in it.