forget Ali, AJ is still below john ruiz

[cold187]

first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz, but in reply to those people on about ALi comparisons
AJ is still to achieve what likes of john Ruiz has done

Ruiz, like AJ, has beaten Names like TONY TUCKER, Holyfield, Golota and rahman (all past it)

AJ has only beaten wlad (past it)

so pump your breaks, and let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story

[Dynamite]

Rahman wasn't past it when Ruiz beat him.

[Jip]

Just show what i have been saying 10000000 times. Records mean 0. Quality, ability of a boxer means everything! Aj 10 times a better boxer ruiz ever was. Poor ruiz would have the same ugly night he had vs tua would aj and him meet.

[Stuarty]

AJ is better now than Ruiz was at his peak for god sake.

[Ossyrules]

This boards is bad for extremists

Joshua is either the GOAT, or terrible

He's neither

[TheGingerBomber]

This boards is bad for extremists

Joshua is either the GOAT, or terrible

He's neither

[jezzamundo]

According to the BoxRec all time ratings, Ruiz is the 63rd greatest heavyweight of all time, while AJ is currently 170th, though I expect he'll overtake Ruiz in a couple of years.

[verlichte]

This boards is bad for extremists

Joshua is either the GOAT, or terrible

He's neither

[crusader]

This boards is bad for extremists

Joshua is either the GOAT, or terrible

He's neither

Is the OP an extremist?

He never said AJ is terrible, and he stated that AJ would probably beat Ruiz.

Ruiz beat several notable fighters over a much longer career than AJ has had, and it's not really crazy to suggest that his record is stronger than AJ's is at the moment.

[Kalan]

first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz, but in reply to those people on about ALi comparisons
AJ is still to achieve what likes of john Ruiz has done

Ruiz, like AJ, has beaten Names like TONY TUCKER, Holyfield, Golota and rahman (all past it)

AJ has only beaten wlad (past it)

so pump your breaks, and let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story

Anthony Joshua is already great and was a big favorite to beat one of the ATG Heavyweights—who he knocked out in his 4th Heavyweight Championship Fight to extend his perfect record of 19-0 with 19 KO wins... something Muhammad Ali never came close to doing.

I'll tell you how GAWD STANKIN' HORRIBLE the Heavyweight Division was in Ali's day ... when Ali left the scene for 3 years, Jimmy Ellis---who fought most of his career fights as a Middleweight up to that point - won Ali’s Heavyweight Championship... He did this by beating 194-pound Leotis Martin who walked straight into punches.. 5' 11" X 204-pound Oscar Bonavena — Boxrec has OB listed as 208.5 which is total BS -- (Bonavena was even easier to hit than John Ruiz or Andrew Golota and was probably the dumbest man alive. He was shot to death trying to break into a brothel). And for the Heavyweight Title Ellis fought 5’11” X 194 Jerry Quarry — who got hit so much he ended his career in tragedy and sorrow.

The ugly truth is Ali had nobody to fight but little teeny guys who couldn't box... Ali did fight 1 great boxer his size in Larry Holmes---but lost every round by 10 million miles... Wladimir Klitschko at age 41 is 10 times the boxer Ali was at 38... As far as ring intelligence there's absolutely no comparison.

[Ossyrules]

This boards is bad for extremists

Joshua is either the GOAT, or terrible

He's neither

Is the OP an extremist?

He never said AJ is terrible, and he stated that AJ would probably beat Ruiz.

Ruiz beat several notable fighters over a much longer career than AJ has had, and it's not really crazy to suggest that his record is stronger than AJ's is at the moment.

Was more of a general observation that a direct hit on the OP. These boards are a lot of all or nothing posts.

As for this one in particular, anyone with one eye can see that Joshua is above John Ruiz already

[Autobarn]

AJ is better now than Ruiz was at his peak for god sake.

Yes. There are a lot of crazies on the internet.

[crusader]

The very first line of the opening post is 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz'

Did people fail to catch this, and just respond without actually reading?

[Ossyrules]

The very first line of the opening post is 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz'

Did people fail to catch this, and just respond without actually reading?

And prior to it putting stuff like Ruiz achieved more by beating past it Holyfield, Rahman etc, when anyone with an ounce of knowledge could see Wlad still had it but Holyfield was shot when Ruiz fought him.

Make statements like that expect it to be questioned

[crusader]

Prior to it? Try reading again..the very first words of the post are 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz', and to close the post there is 'let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story'

Pretty clear to me that the OP thinks AJ is the better fighter, while Ruiz has a stronger resume. It's perfectly fine to question the resume claim, but strange to respond with stuff that suggests the OP is also arguing that Ruiz was more capable than AJ and would beat him.

Incidentally, while Ruiz seems to have a generally negative reputation due to his style, his resume is actually quite solid.

[Ossyrules]

Prior to it? Try reading again..the very first words of the post are 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz', and to close the post there is 'let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story'

Pretty clear to me that the OP thinks AJ is the better fighter, while Ruiz has a stronger resume. It's perfectly fine to question the resume claim, but strange to respond with stuff that suggests the OP is also arguing that Ruiz was more capable than AJ and would beat him.

Incidentally, while Ruiz seems to have a generally negative reputation due to his style, his resume is actually quite solid.

Prior to it being the AJ is below Ruiz.

I accept the OP suggests AJ would beat Ruiz

Ruiz resumé really isn't solid. It's mediocre for a boxer fighting at the top level of his weight, and reflects a generally poor era of boxing for that weight

Beating klitschko trumps anything Ruiz has done by quite a long way. What exactly puts Ruiz above? What's better than beating klitschko, in a fight where his brother has said it was a career best fight?

Joshua is clearly a level above Ruiz. I can't believe people would see it any other way

[Kalan]

Prior to it? Try reading again..the very first words of the post are 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz', and to close the post there is 'let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story'

Pretty clear to me that the OP thinks AJ is the better fighter, while Ruiz has a stronger resume. It's perfectly fine to question the resume claim, but strange to respond with stuff that suggests the OP is also arguing that Ruiz was more capable than AJ and would beat him.

Incidentally, while Ruiz seems to have a generally negative reputation due to his style, his resume is actually quite solid.

Ruiz's resume is a million miles below Joshua's...and not "solid" at all... 44-9-1...

That would be good for a basketball team -- but they don't cherry-pick their opponents.. A loss to Danell Nicholson.. A ridiculous DQ win over Kirk Johnson by a corrupt referee... A loss to Valuev... Getting flattened by Tua in 17 seconds... a loss to former Middleweight Champ Roy Jones, who dominated Ruiz... This jerk is taking one of the worst Heavyweight Champions of all time and comparing him favorably with Anthony Joshua -- with the goal of disparaging everything Joshua has accomplished in his amateur and pro career.. Joshua has already won twice as many World Heavyweight Championship fights as Ruiz ever won -- and he only has 19 fights.. You have to ask yourself if a Light Heavyweight would target Anthony Joshua based on his resume. or target John Ruiz based on his.

[crusader]

Prior to it? Try reading again..the very first words of the post are 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz', and to close the post there is 'let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story'

Pretty clear to me that the OP thinks AJ is the better fighter, while Ruiz has a stronger resume. It's perfectly fine to question the resume claim, but strange to respond with stuff that suggests the OP is also arguing that Ruiz was more capable than AJ and would beat him.

Incidentally, while Ruiz seems to have a generally negative reputation due to his style, his resume is actually quite solid.

Prior to it being the AJ is below Ruiz.

I accept the OP suggests AJ would beat Ruiz

Ruiz resumé really isn't solid. It's mediocre for a boxer fighting at the top level of his weight, and reflects a generally poor era of boxing for that weight

Beating klitschko trumps anything Ruiz has done by quite a long way. What exactly puts Ruiz above? What's better than beating klitschko, in a fight where his brother has said it was a career best fight?

Joshua is clearly a level above Ruiz. I can't believe people would see it any other way

Ruiz has wins over Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, McCline, Oquendo, and Johnson, all when they still had something left. It's certainly debatable, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that, considering this depth, Ruiz has a stronger resume overall than AJ does. That shouldn't be taken as a major knock on AJ given that he's been a pro for a much shorter period than Ruiz was.

When it comes to ability, AJ is a level above, and no one suggested otherwise. The thread starter also acknowledged AJ's potential for greatness, and his position isn't nearly as extreme as some are making out....

[Ossyrules]

Prior to it? Try reading again..the very first words of the post are 'first of all AJ would probably spark out john Ruiz', and to close the post there is 'let AJ continue, im sure he can be great, lets follow the story'

Pretty clear to me that the OP thinks AJ is the better fighter, while Ruiz has a stronger resume. It's perfectly fine to question the resume claim, but strange to respond with stuff that suggests the OP is also arguing that Ruiz was more capable than AJ and would beat him.

Incidentally, while Ruiz seems to have a generally negative reputation due to his style, his resume is actually quite solid.

Prior to it being the AJ is below Ruiz.

I accept the OP suggests AJ would beat Ruiz

Ruiz resumé really isn't solid. It's mediocre for a boxer fighting at the top level of his weight, and reflects a generally poor era of boxing for that weight

Beating klitschko trumps anything Ruiz has done by quite a long way. What exactly puts Ruiz above? What's better than beating klitschko, in a fight where his brother has said it was a career best fight?

Joshua is clearly a level above Ruiz. I can't believe people would see it any other way

Ruiz has wins over Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, McCline, Oquendo, and Johnson, all when they still had something left. It's certainly debatable, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that, considering this depth, Ruiz has a stronger resume overall than AJ does.

When it comes to ability, AJ is a level above, and no one suggested otherwise. The thread starter also acknowledged AJ's potential for greatness, and his position isn't nearly as extreme as some are making out....

Ruiz win over Holyfield is about as credible as Calzaghe beating Roy jones. The record books show these names fought and the victors, but the followers of the sport understand that Holyfield was some way past it. Holyfield anywhere near his best beats Ruiz and beats him really well.

As for the other names, are any better than Joshua's achievement of beating Wlad? For me that question is a no brainer. Wlad may have been 41 but he fought a terrific fight.

Ruiz resumé over Joshua's shouldn't even be a debate

[crusader]

AJ's win over Wlad may well be the best, but I think the strength of one's resume should be based on what they do overall, and Ruiz has quite a bit of depth to his record. Granted, not all the Ruiz opponents I mentioned were in their primes (neither was 41-year-old, inactive, coming off an 8-4/9-3 loss Wlad), but they weren't shot either, and could still be considered legitimate contenders when Ruiz beat them. I think it's certainly debatable, and I'm having no problems coming up with arguments.

I'd say Ruiz has the same argument over Fury too, who beat Wlad before and far more easily than AJ did. Just curious, if a totally unproven fighter like Zhang Zhilei were to upset Joshua in their next fights, would you say that Zhang has a stronger record than Ruiz, because of that one big win?

[Kalan]

Ruiz has wins over Holyfield, Rahman, Golota, McCline, Oquendo, and Johnson, all when they still had something left.

That's BS.. Holyfield had nothing left...it was like Leon Spinks beating Ali... McCline was done. McCline lost 7 of his last 10 fights and Ruiz was his 3rd loss in a row... I had Johnson outboxing Ruiz handily, but Ruiz was getting away with murder... I knew the fight was in the bag for Ruiz when Joe Cortez didn't take points when Ruiz used a wrestling throw down and deliberately head-butted Johnson right in the face.. Cortez harassed Johnson for low blows that weren't low.. Boxing is just a very corrupt sport.

Golota, Rahman, and Oquendo were just very inept Heavyweights... Those guys are 1-round jobs for Anthony Joshua and Ruiz struggled to beat them.

[crusader]

'Kalan, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.'

[Ossyrules]

AJ's win over Wlad may well be the best, but I think the strength of one's resume should be based on what they do overall, and Ruiz has quite a bit of depth to his record. Granted, not all the Ruiz opponents I mentioned were in their primes (neither was 41-year-old, inactive, coming off an 8-4/9-3 loss Wlad), but they weren't shot either, and could still be considered legitimate contenders when Ruiz beat them. I think it's certainly debatable, and I'm having no problems coming up with arguments.

I'd say Ruiz has the same argument over Fury too, who beat Wlad before and far more easily than AJ did. Just curious, if a totally unproven fighter like Zhang Zhilei were to upset Joshua in their next fights, would you say that Zhang has a stronger record than Ruiz, because of that one big win?

I can see your having no problems with the argument!

Boxing isn't prime vs past prime. Wlad at 41 would be be prime, but he wasn't far past it based on what we show. The fury fight was a completely different style that he dealt badly with and while it was a clear points win for fury it wasn't a fight that was tough physically or wearing, and nor was it an absolute clinic he was subject too. He just got out pointed 8-4. It's safe to say Wlad had a lot left from the great showing.

Holyfield had slid far far more when he fought Ruiz. It's a name on the Ruiz record sure, but that's about it. The others you mention are ok fighters but hardly depth to swing this.

This isn't about zhang it's Joshua and Ruiz so to bring another fighter in is irrelevant for this debate.

If you honestly believe in the Ruiz record still I imagine there's little more to say

[crusader]

Evander hadn't slid nearly as much as you're suggesting. Just about a year before he was highly competitive with Lennox Lewis, and many people thought Ruiz won the first match with Holyfield, which occurred less than a year after Evander rematched Lewis.

The Zhang hypothetical is relevant, because it would be a clear case of depth vs one standout win. So, what do you say? Would Zhang have a stronger resume than Ruiz on the basis of having the single best win?

[Ossyrules]

Evander hadn't slid nearly as much as you're suggesting. Just about a year before he was highly competitive with Lennox Lewis, and many people thought Ruiz won the first match with Holyfield, which occurred less than a year after Evander rematched Lewis.

The Zhang hypothetical is relevant, because it would be a clear case of depth vs one standout win. So, what do you say? Would Zhang have a stronger resume than Ruiz on the basis of having the single best win?

It is different as it's another fighter so it's a different record so it gets examined differently. Anyone who beat Wlad in the shape he did have a better achievement than that of Ruiz. It's hard enough comparing boxers from different eras let alone a completely hypothetical one, so going into that is pointless.

Holyfield was past it. It's generally accepted that he was beyond his best when he beat Tyson, Lennox stood him on his head albeit Holyfield faired better in the rematch. Then Holyfield beat Ruiz before Ruiz actually registered a win. It's a slippery slope.

It's your decision to rate Ruiz higher or lower, you still haven't actually drawn your line in the sand, it's clear I don't rate the Ruiz record as high as you. I can't see us agreeing