Rocky Marciano, what if?

[NYDominican]

On September 21, 1955, Rocky Marciano fought Archie Moore. Rocky beat Archie by a 9th round knockout. Right after this fight, Marciano retired from professional boxing.


Had Rocky not retired, had Marciano fought until 1968. -------------

1. Do you think that Rocky would have been as dominant as what he was before 1955? If so, why?



2. If you don't think that Marciano would have been as dominant as what he was before 1955, which boxers could have beaten him?



Please explain.

[Kalan]

Patterson was too fast and skilled for him and would easily hammered him... Liston was too big and strong for him and would have smashed him... After facing those 2 he would have retired... What's the use??? ... Remember Nino Benvenuti won his first 65 pro fights... Luis Ramon Campas won his first 56 pro fights... Felix Trinidad won his first 40 pro fights, including a Hell of a lot more Championship Fights than Rocky ever fought.

[AlexCayWalt]

He would get in trouble fighting Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston.
I think Rocky Marciano would've knocked out Floyd Patterson losing on points. Floyd was too fast and skilled but Marciano had better power and stamina. It would have been a hard fight but Rocky wins. Sonny Liston is more dangerous for Marciano. He is a big puncher with good jab. But Liston's win is not guaranteed. Marciano had specific defence and attack techniques. Liston had never encountered fighters like Marciano. Rocky Marciano crushed opponent's hands, blocked their motions, went through jabs. No one knows if Liston could handle this.

[davie]

I think Rocky Marciano would've knocked out Floyd Patterson losing on points. Floyd was too fast and skilled but Marciano had better power and stamina. It would have been a hard fight but Rocky wins.

Say what!?

[Kalan]

He would get in trouble fighting Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston.
I think Rocky Marciano would've knocked out Floyd Patterson losing on points. Floyd was too fast and skilled but Marciano had better power and stamina. It would have been a hard fight but Rocky wins. Sonny Liston is more dangerous for Marciano. He is a big puncher with good jab. But Liston's win is not guaranteed. Marciano had specific defence and attack techniques. Liston had never encountered fighters like Marciano. Rocky Marciano crushed opponent's hands, blocked their motions, went through jabs. No one knows if Liston could handle this.

I think you know... It's like putting Joe Frazier in with George Foreman... or Floyd Patterson in with Sonny Liston... or undefeated Michael Spinks in with Mike Tyson... or Ray Austin in with Wladimir Klitschko... Or Charles Martin in with Anthony Joshua...

In your heart you know they're never going to win in a million years.

[cfang]

Mmm tricky one this. Reason being rocky was deteriorating and losing interest. He’d still have beaten Patterson though. Patterson just wasn’t durable enough to handle Rocky. Rocky would have stopped Patterson and a couple of others before losing to Liston most likely on cuts. That jab most likely would have messed up rocky. Then again nobody really knows. Maybe rocky could have got inside. He was a tremendous puncher. Maybe he’d have won? He was after all an undefeated undisputed world champion.

[Kalan]

Let's be real... Look at Marciano's fight with Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson's fight with Archie Moore. Day and night.. Moore decked Marciano solidly and gave him pause a couple other times -- and he was a Light Heavyweight.. Marciano just didn't have the skills.. 39-year-old small Heavyweight Joe Walcott had a KO ratio of well under 50%.. He put Marciano on the deck.. He was beating Marciano on the cards when he was stopped. I think that was about Walcott's 6th KO loss.

Up to that time I don't remember Patterson being knocked down in 30 odd fights.. His only defeat was a robbery when he had 13 fights and weighed 168.. He was clearly a lot better than anyone Marciano fought. He walked through Archie Moore like he was nothing.. He was too fast and skilled for Marciano and I don't see a reasonable scenario where Rocky might win that fight.

The 37-year-old Patterson a young Marciano could beat... The guy who fought a rematch with a young Ali and then quit the game for good... But the blazing fast version of youthful Patterson who fought Archie Moore and punched him up non-stop??? ... That would be a disaster for Rocky.

[cfang]

If you just take one or two fights you can come up with any view. Patterson was knocked down by a guy making his pro debut, he took like ten rounds to see off brian london, he was blown away twice by liston and was by all accounts scared of him, the one dimensional johannson koed him. In fact he never beat one big puncher and avoided them his whole career, he never went anywhere near frazier or foreman did he? Marciano was a huge puncher with an iron chin and he'd have koed patterson. moore was clearly softened up for that patterson fight by the brutal pounding he had off rocky. Oh and jersey joe couldn't punch you say? Well tell that to ezzard charles following one of the greatest one punch kos in boxing history.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Walcott was a big puncher and better than Patterson.

[Kalan]

[Patterson] never beat one big puncher and avoided them his whole career ... Oh and jersey joe couldn't punch you say?

Didn't say that... Any Heavyweight can hit, but Walcott wasn't a big puncher for a Heavyweight... Patterson was an outstanding puncher.

If Patterson avoided big punchers, it's odd that he took everything Archie Moore could throw without blinking.. Moore floored Marciano and scored more KO wins than any other world champion in ANY division in the long HISTORY of Boxing.. Patterson got rid of Moore much faster than Marciano did.. Moore didn't take a bad beating from Marciano.. Archie said he suffered NO ill effects from Patterson, Marciano or from more brutal KO’s he suffered earlier in his career.. In his next 40 fights following the Marciano bout he was stopped only ONCE -- by Floyd Patterson.

Patterson is the ONLY man to KO Ingemar Johansson – doing it TWICE... Johansson had a much higher KO ratio than Joe Walcott – and Ingo earned his shot at Patterson by knocking out undefeated, number 1 ranked Eddie Machen in the 1st round – an ice job.. Machen was out colder than 7 barrels of penguin shiit..

Machen later went the distance with Sonny Liston and Floyd Patterson but lost decisions. Shows how hard Ingo could hit. In one of the final fights of his career Johansson got into a brutal punch-out with Dick Richardson.. Richardson iced Karl Mildenberger for a count of a thousand in his previous fight to win the European Heavyweight Championship with a thunderous 1st round KO.. Ingo made Richardson into a caricature of a KO’d fighter with a cataclysmic right hand in the 8th. Earlier in his career he got rid of Henry Cooper by easy KO and won another European Heavyweight Title by being the first man to ever KO Italian Heavyweight Franco Cavicchi.

Floyd Patterson is the ONLY man to KO Ingemar Johansson ... He hit Ingo so hard he not only iced him -- he almost made a corpse out of him.. Patterson knocked Olympic Gold Medal winner Pete Rademacher out cold so it doesn't matter what happened earlier in the fight.. When Patterson was a logical opponent for Marciano he had never been knocked down or knocked out in his life.

Patterson knocked out everyone he faced in 12 Heavyweight Championship Fights -- except for Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali.. Walcott and Marciano never faced any prime Heavyweight of that caliber in their lives.

Ezzard Charles was suffering early manifestations of ALS when he faced Walcott the 3rd time. He was on the slide after easily beating a younger Walcott twice earlier in his career.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

So now Joe Louis and Marciano aren't even of the same caliber as Ali or Liston? LOL

[Tomasino]

I can see Marciano hammering Patterson, like most. I also see him giving Big bully Liston a drubbing. Yes, Liston has an excellent jab and lots of power. He was also rattled mentally and KOd by Ali, who doesn’t come close to hitting like Rocky, or having the same menacing presence. Rock would not have been scare of Sonny and would take the fight right to him.

[cfang]

http://theboxingtribune.com/2014/08/11/ ... fought-on/

Pretty good this. Can see this playing out actually

[Crease]

Had Rocky not retired, had Marciano fought until 1968.
1. Do you think that Rocky would have been as dominant as what he was before 1955? If so, why?

I would have thought so. This isn't a question about the Rock's abilities, but moreover a question on the other talent about in the Heavyweight division after the Moore fight.

I look at the likes of Bon Baker, Bob Satterfield, Hurricane Jackson & Willie Pastrano and I can't see any of them giving him much trouble. All who have lost stopped within the 15 rounds... Perhaps the most well-known name around that time was Floyd Patterson, but despite being a slick and classy fighter, he was just too chinny & lightweight to deal with The Rock.

2. If you don't think that Marciano would have been as dominant as what he was before 1955, which boxers could have beaten him? Please explain.

My best guess is that The Rock holds the Heavyweight title until he faces Sonny Liston probably around 1960-61ish. Maybe even as late as 1962 - that's if The Rock doesn't decide to call it a day before then.

Time always eventually catches up with all fighters, but fortunate for The Rock, he was never known for his speed or quickness. The main attributes that he does have - his strength, his toughness, his punching power & his will to win would not fade over time. So he really could've went on to 1962, probably.

And it's an IF - when discussing him fighting Sonny Liston. Liston liked to bully his opponents, The Rock would not be bullied...

[Ambling Alp II]

1962? You have to be kidding. He would have 39 years old by then and he would have been old for 39; taking as much punishment as he did. He probably would have beaten Patterson in 1956, but he would have been declining in the late 1950s. Somebody would have beaten him well before 1962.

[Kalan]

So now Joe Louis and Marciano aren't even of the same caliber as Ali or Liston? LOL

You have to be able to read to understand..." Patterson knocked out everyone he faced in 12 Heavyweight Championship Fights -- except for Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali.. Walcott and Marciano never faced any prime Heavyweight of that caliber in their lives."

Key adjective being "prime." ... A prime Louis was the same caliber, but an old Louis wasn't... A young Marciano wouldn't match them either.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It doesn't get more prime Marciano than the one who fought Walcott. Louis was much more prime against Walcott than the examples you pull out of your ass on a daily basis. You're wrong again.

[Ossyrules]

Marciano derserves his place in heavyweight folklore, but I think if he fought on he’d have been beaten by Patterson and would have been beaten by Liston whilst sustaining a lot of damage.

This isn’t a prime for prime thing, Marciano would have been on the way down for when these match ups came about

[Controversial]

Had Rocky not retired, had Marciano fought until 1968. -------------

1968, he would've been 45 !!! Rocky was right to retire when he did, he was on the slide in 1955 and suffering from injuries and may have well struggled with Patterson had they fought in 1958 (I assume you meant 1958 and not 1968)

[Kalan]

It doesn't get more prime Marciano than the one who fought Walcott. Louis was much more prime against Walcott than the examples you pull out of your ass on a daily basis. You're wrong again.

Louis was fat, doddering, and far from prime when he met Walcott... Nothing like the sleek young bomber who dispatched Max Baer with ease.

Marciano was no match for Liston or Ali... He'd be a midget... Prime Patterson weighed 189, 194.5, and 196.75 for those boys -- but Looked teeny for his 3 Title Fights with Liston and Ali... Patterson looked like he was accidentally matched out of his weight class... You're wrong again.

[Kalan]

NOBODY from the 50's or 60's could stand and trade with Liston... It would be like Frazier trying to trade with Foreman... Not happening son.

[cfang]

Sonny Liston would have believed ALL of his Christmases had arrived at once if a stupid little 190 lb crude slugger had decided he actually WANTED to stand and trade with him. He might well have stood blinking his eyes for the first minute whilst deciding whether or not it was really happening, or perhaps it might be some stupid Murican version of Candid Camera.

Marciano had less than NOTHING that could have possibly bothered Liston. Let us not forget, that at the time people were actually claiming that the fleet footed 6' 3" , 210 lb Clay was in danger of being killed if Sonny got to him, never mind some stumpy little nobody like Marciano. Rocky was ONLY ever considered as a guy who could come out on top in wars of attrition. He was NEVER considered to be a Liston, or a Foreman, who could simply walk across the ring and blitz the other guy.

How do you know Rocky was stupid? In interviews he seems very articulate and thoughtful, in particular when he talks boxing. You seem to think he managed to go 49-0 being some wild slugger with no method, no tactics - what a load of rubbish. Rarely has a fighter been as well schooled and as tactically savvy. He had an amazing manager and his style was designed to make the most out of what he had got, well it certainly worked didn't it? Also there's a difference between the Rocky coming up and the Rocky as champ. He was more of a one punch killer coming up (susie q ever heard of that) but did change to be more of a wear em down fighter later on. Nobody seems to know why but I'm sure it was deliberate and again it seemed to work.

I don't think Rocky would beat Liston but I don't know for sure and he's far far too easily dismissed sometimes. Will to win and determination are a big thing in a boxing match and one things for sure, rocky wouldn't have quit on his stool or get knocked down by that little light right that ali threw, His small size was used as an advantage not a disadvantage. He himself said he wanted to fight bigger guys cos he could get to them but all the guys he fought like walcott, charles etc were speedier. It could be argued that the guys he fought actually weren't suited to him. What i do know is he was strong, had incredible stamina, threw more punches per round than anyone, hit like a mule, was always in perfect shape and was totally fearless. He'd be trouble for pretty much any heavy in history and to dismiss him as stupid and giving him no chance just isn't right. Rarely do top fighters get blown away, in particular great ones.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It doesn't get more prime Marciano than the one who fought Walcott. Louis was much more prime against Walcott than the examples you pull out of your ass on a daily basis. You're wrong again.

Louis was fat, doddering, and far from prime when he met Walcott... Nothing like the sleek young bomber who dispatched Max Baer with ease.

Marciano was no match for Liston or Ali... He'd be a midget... Prime Patterson weighed 189, 194.5, and 196.75 for those boys -- but Looked teeny for his 3 Title Fights with Liston and Ali... Patterson looked like he was accidentally matched out of his weight class... You're wrong again.

I'm rarely wrong, never when I'm talking to you.

[Kalan]

Sonny Liston would have believed ALL of his Christmases had arrived at once if a stupid little 190 lb crude slugger had decided he actually WANTED to stand and trade with him. He might well have stood blinking his eyes for the first minute whilst deciding whether or not it was really happening, or perhaps it might be some stupid Murican version of Candid Camera.

Marciano had less than NOTHING that could have possibly bothered Liston. Let us not forget, that at the time people were actually claiming that the fleet footed 6' 3" , 210 lb Clay was in danger of being killed if Sonny got to him, never mind some stumpy little nobody like Marciano. Rocky was ONLY ever considered as a guy who could come out on top in wars of attrition. He was NEVER considered to be a Liston, or a Foreman, who could simply walk across the ring and blitz the other guy.

Marciano blitzed Walcott pretty good in their rematch... Walcott wanted to get out of that fight with a lot less punishment than their first fight...where both fighters took a tremendous number of head shots... Walcott wasn't a big puncher... If Liston were delivering those shots instead of Walcott -- it wouldn't be pretty.. Kind of like Joe Frazier blowing away 197-pound Jimmy Ellis -- but later running into George Foreman.

[gilgamesh]

I think Marciano's time as Champ was nearing it's end by 1955 anyway. He maybe could've made a few more title defenses, but I think guys like Floyd Patterson would've been a big problem for him, and he was right around the corner.