Lennox Lewis: Best Win?

[Kalan]

You know Vitali Klitschko was his best opponent... And you know he didn't really win that one -- it was a gift.

I like the way Lewis was posing for this picture -- trying very hard to look like The Predator... He could be a dipwad... He probably took a hundred photos before he came up with this one that had the lighting and effect he wanted.

Do you genuinely not like/hate Lennox Lewis? If so, Why?

His dislike of Lewis is primarily related to his liking of Vitali Klitschko and his view that Klitschko was cheated in the Lewis fight.

It's his view that the Klitschkos are the greatest heavyweights ever after Anthony Joshua. That seems to be the sum and substance.

It's the same at other weights. He thinks Golovkin and Kovalev are the best ever at middleweight and light heavyweight along with Spence, Thurman and Brook at welterweight

I love the way idiots like ewenhay come on here and lie like Hell about my views... I never said Kovalev was the best ever Light Heavyweight... I've always said Michael Spinks was the best LHW.. He was never beaten at the weight and won the Heavyweight Title as well.. Spence, Thurman, and Brook are great Welterweights.. I think it's interesting that Floyd chose to fight "Mayfield or Berto" for his 50th opponent.. Even his dad said, "I think he should just quit now if he doesn't want to fight the best Welterweights."

When reporters asked Floyd about his dad's comments he said, "Me and my dad don't agree on everything." ... But I knew it. I said from 2013 on that Floyd would never fight Porter, Thurman, or Brook.. Not only that, but there was a distinct dividing line.. I said Khan, Pacquiao, Bradley, and Maidana would never face Porter, Thurman, Brook, or Spence when Errol came along... So far that has held up.

I see certain fights not being made and certain fighters seem to be kicked downstairs.. They just don't get enough fights or appropriate fights..

[ewenhay]

Do you genuinely not like/hate Lennox Lewis? If so, Why?

His dislike of Lewis is primarily related to his liking of Vitali Klitschko and his view that Klitschko was cheated in the Lewis fight.

It's his view that the Klitschkos are the greatest heavyweights ever after Anthony Joshua. That seems to be the sum and substance.

It's the same at other weights. He thinks Golovkin and Kovalev are the best ever at middleweight and light heavyweight along with Spence, Thurman and Brook at welterweight

I love the way idiots like ewenhay come on here and lie like Hell about my views... I never said Kovalev was the best ever Light Heavyweight... I've always said Michael Spinks was the best LHW.. He was never beaten at the weight and won the Heavyweight Title as well.. Spence, Thurman, and Brook are great Welterweights.. I think it's interesting that Floyd chose to fight "Mayfield or Berto" for his 50th opponent.. Even his dad said, "I think he should just quit now if he doesn't want to fight the best Welterweights."

When reporters asked Floyd about his dad's comments he said, "Me and my dad don't agree on everything." ... But I knew it. I said from 2013 on that Floyd would never fight Porter, Thurman, or Brook.. Not only that, but there was a distinct dividing line.. I said Khan, Pacquiao, Bradley, and Maidana would never face Porter, Thurman, Brook, or Spence when Errol came along... So far that has held up.

I see certain fights not being made and certain fighters seem to be kicked downstairs.. They just don't get enough fights or appropriate fights..

Sorry. 2nd best ever light heavyweight then. I assume you're not disputing the other ones.

[drunkenpiper36]

Although it wasn't his best "opponent" I think his devastating KO of Razor Ruddock was probably his best "win" and certainly among his best performances.. Donoven was heavily favored in that fight, viewed as being at his pinnacle and predicted by many to be the next champ. Lewis went out there and utterly dominated in rarely scene fashion when you have two guys who were thought to be that well matched.

[Kalan]

His dislike of Lewis is primarily related to his liking of Vitali Klitschko and his view that Klitschko was cheated in the Lewis fight.

It's his view that the Klitschkos are the greatest heavyweights ever after Anthony Joshua. That seems to be the sum and substance.

It's the same at other weights. He thinks Golovkin and Kovalev are the best ever at middleweight and light heavyweight along with Spence, Thurman and Brook at welterweight

I love the way idiots like ewenhay come on here and lie like Hell about my views... I never said Kovalev was the best ever Light Heavyweight... I've always said Michael Spinks was the best LHW.. He was never beaten at the weight and won the Heavyweight Title as well.. Spence, Thurman, and Brook are great Welterweights.. I think it's interesting that Floyd chose to fight "Mayfield or Berto" for his 50th opponent.. Even his dad said, "I think he should just quit now if he doesn't want to fight the best Welterweights."

When reporters asked Floyd about his dad's comments he said, "Me and my dad don't agree on everything." ... But I knew it. I said from 2013 on that Floyd would never fight Porter, Thurman, or Brook.. Not only that, but there was a distinct dividing line.. I said Khan, Pacquiao, Bradley, and Maidana would never face Porter, Thurman, Brook, or Spence when Errol came along... So far that has held up.

I see certain fights not being made and certain fighters seem to be kicked downstairs.. They just don't get enough fights or appropriate fights..

Sorry. 2nd best ever light heavyweight then. I assume you're not disputing the other ones

Assuming makes an ass out of you... Kovalev was the best Light Heavy for several years and may still be... I haven't ranked him as an ATG.. and I don't rank him ahead of Lomachenko, Golovkin, Joshua, Crawford, Spence, Russell, and Mikey P4P.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ruddock - Yes, I know Ruddock was one dimensional & overrated, but no-one was saying that at the time.

Everyone thought he was the most dangerous HW on the planet & even Riddick Bowe made sure that he avoided Razor, thus meaning Lewis had to face him.

Lewis decimated Ruddock without even breaking sweat & no-one had done that to Razor prior to that.

Also, the poster who cited the Gary Mason victory is spot on; that was a very underrated victory.

Lewis was still a novice & Mason was much more experienced & was no mug.

How in the world did riddick avoid razor?

Bowe always gets accused of ducking people. He signed to fight Lewis and people say he ducked him. He agreed to fight Mercer and people say he ducked him. He and Tua were only in the top 10 at the same time for a bout a year and people say he ducked Tua.

[Matt the Master]

And why doesn't anyone ever mention that he beat Gary Mason early in his career ? That was the only time Mason would ever go on to lose, becoming European Heavyweight Champion before retiring.

Matt...it has been raised a number of times on the forum in discussions about Gary and Lennox, so fear not they both get their props

But ultimately, the win over Gary (who was decent) was domestic/European business and the wins of Vitali, Ruddock, Tyson and Evander simply have more value attached to them....more on the line, opponents who were of global status.

I think the Mason fight was Lewis coming off age and showing that he could deal with the pressure and move on from being a guy with a dazzling amateur career and with loads of potential. Gary was the acid test Lennox had to face and pass.

I agree totally, well said

[Kalan]

Well all of that is nonsense because Lennox-Wladimir never happened -- and Wladimir wanted it to happen and Lewis didn't...

Oh really? When exactly was this then?

Right after he was the first man to stop Mercer.... Who many thought beat Lewis... Wlad was the top ranked contender... Lewis didn't want any more hard right hands to the chin... He had a penchant for being stopped by them.

[Kalan]

You're worse than average.... You're dumber than fuk.

Lewis didn't fight Wladimir after he beat Ray Mercer and was the top contender.... It would have been a blockbuster fight regardless of what Wladimir pulled in other fights or that he had a loss

Wladimir was well known and had a great rep at that time... What Sanders did to Wladimir has no more relevance to a Lewis-Klitschko matchup than Rahman and McCall chilling Lewis... Ending him with a single shot to the head.

Lewis didn't "smash" anybody... He FOULED eyelid cuts open with a thumb strike... head work... a palm slash... and holding-n-hitting fouls... If the fight went to the scorecards as it should have, Vitali wins a UNANIMOUS TECHNICAL DECISION!!!

[Boxing Writer]

Lennox was chasing a rematch with shot to shi1t Tyson, whom he had beaten really, really bad. He was basically chasing an easy money rather than the dangerous fight. At that point Tyson was awful and had zero chances of beating Lewis. I think Lewis vs Holyfield-III would be way more interesting and more attractive than Lewis vs Tyson-2. Holyfield, while being shot fighter himself in 2002, was MUCH, MUCH better than that version of Tyson. He beat up 10-years-younger Hasim Rahman. And yes, he headbutted Rahman in seventh round, but he was winning the fight convinsingly before that butt. I think in 2002 Holyfield would KO Tyson in 9-10 rounds, but would get beaten covinsigly by younger and much more fresher Lewis. Likely by 119-109/118-110 decision. Both Klitschkos would beat Evander in 2002 convinsingly too and Chris Byrd actually did it. Klitschkos and Byrd were 3 most deserving opponents for Lewis in 2002-2003, but can we blame Lennox for chasing the big-money (and extremely easy) rematch with Tyson? At least he agreed to fight Vitali after all. I'd prefer to see Lewis vs Vitali in late 2001 (had he beaten Rahman in April) with full training camps for both - than it would be the best version of Lewis (he looked FANTASTIC in Rahman ramatch) vs the best version of Vitali Klitschko. I think there is a good chance that fight would end without any controversy, and if it would, Lewis would give Vitali remacth because he was still hoping to get that fight against Tyson and wasn't going to retire.

[jbizzle20]

It's ironic that I think his signature "win' could be his first fight with Holyfield. Obviously, we are all aware he didn't get the actual win on his ledger. But, I think that fight perfectly defined what I believe is his legacy in the sport. He was able to use a previously unseen combination of acumen, athleticism, and sheer size to effectively neutralize and flummox not simply a terrific fighter, but a guy that is unquestionably an all time great fighter. It really signaled a new age in the heavyweight division in that a guy of such size and power could also bring so much in the way of fluid boxing ability. It left you with the feeling that smaller heavyweights were going to have to be even better moving forward if they want to compete with this "new" brand of super heavyweight. For me, that is precisely what made Lennox Lewis special, and it should be his epitaph in boxing.

Interesting perspective. He refused to get suckered into a brawl like so many Holyfield opponents did and used range and jab to his full advantage. Defense in the HWs made a comeback as Lewis began domimating opponents. One of the few big guys I've seen combine their size with skill, instead of fighting like a gorilla. For me personally, I think probably Klitschko was his best W, in hindsight. Vitali went on to be arguably the best HW in terms of sheer dominance of his opposition. Lewis was literally the only guy who ever really hurt him. Yes, you can argue about the skill of those opponents but he dominated in all of his victories. Lewis didn't take his training seriously in the lead up and paid a high price for it, yet he persevered and "reconfigured" Vitali's face at the same time. That fight was legendary.

[Kalan]

Lewis didn't "reconfigure" Vitali's face... He slashed open cuts in Vitali's left eyelid and cheek with a thumb strike... a headlock and illegal headwork... and a holding-n-hitting palm rake... That's 4 fouls in the first 20 seconds of the 3rd round that did 95% of the damage... Lewis worsened the cuts by deliberately palming Vitali's face later in the fight...

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q .... You only flip and twist the wrist for a thumb strike. After the thumb-strike Lewis immediately grabbed Vitali's head to rub his head in the cut and deliver a palm slash.

It should have gone to the scorecards with Klitschko winning a UNANIMOUS TECHNICAL DECISION cuz of the thumb-strike clearly shown here... the holding-n-headbutt 1 second later... and the holding-n-hitting palm rake 3 seconds later that slashed the thumb-strike nick wide open... That's 4 fouls in the first 20 seconds of the 3rd round.Lewis should have been DQ'd he fouled so many times...Including flagrant face palming he was fleetingly warned for later in the fight... and punching WAY after 6 dings of the closing bell to end the 6th... He loaded and threw a left hook which made contact after 6 dings.. Moret moved in with arms out and pushed Lewis to the corner... He clearly saw the late punch and said nothing... Lou Moret was clearly corrupt and in Lewis's pocket.

[Controversial]

Its not uncommon for title challengers to give the champ a hard fight, as the saying goes its easier to win the title than defend it. Challengers have a lot to gain and nothing to lose and when they are undefeated they still think they cannot be beat, that mindset makes these fighters dangerous. As expected Klitschko gave it his all in the early rounds but he was starting to tire and by the 6th round he was boxing on the retreat and Lewis was taking over. Had he not been cut I would have expected Lewis to stop him a few rounds later.

[Crease]

I'd put Lewis' best win down as his victory over Holyfield in their second fight.
It cemented his place at the top of the Heavyweight rankings.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes, but he looked awful in the fight. I and many other people don't even think he should have got the decision. He spent most of the fight just his pawing with jab with nothing on it.
Always thought the Tyson win was underrated. Yes, Tyson didn't have much after the first round. However, Lewis really seemed to be on his game.

[Boxing Writer]

Yes, but he looked awful in the fight. I and many other people don't even think he should have got the decision. He spent most of the fight just his pawing with jab with nothing on it.
Always thought the Tyson win was underrated. Yes, Tyson didn't have much after the first round. However, Lewis really seemed to be on his game.

I thought Holyfield deserved the nod in the rematch, but Lewis didn't look awful. It was actually Holyfield who fought much better than people expected from him after the first fight. Holyfield actually did amazing job for 37-years-old washed up fighter in rematch, especially considering that he was fighting opponent with much bigger size (height, weight, reach) and power. And that opponent had great skills.

[Kalan]

You're worse than average.... You're dumber than fuk.

Lewis didn't fight Wladimir after he beat Ray Mercer and was the top contender.... It would have been a blockbuster fight regardless of what Wladimir pulled in other fights or that he had a loss

Wladimir was well known and had a great rep at that time... What Sanders did to Wladimir has no more relevance to a Lewis-Klitschko matchup than Rahman and McCall chilling Lewis... Ending him with a single shot to the head.

Lewis didn't "smash" anybody... He FOULED eyelid cuts open with a thumb strike... head work... a palm slash... and holding-n-hitting fouls... If the fight went to the scorecards as it should have, Vitali wins a UNANIMOUS TECHNICAL DECISION!!!

Were you born as thick as shitt, or have you made it your life's ambition? After Tyson which happened in the same MONTH as Vlad beat Mercer, Lewis negotiated a fight with the bigger brother for November 2003 with a warm up against Johnson first in June 2003. Try reading the interview on the other thread.

Nowhere does it say Lewis HAD to fight again in 2002 because a lowlife piece of slime Fukkin mug

Old-N-Moldie you're a little dense and slow on the uptake... Wladimir was the number one contender and Johnson stepped in front of him... Wladimir wanted a Lewis fight, Lewis didn't... Vitali had to sue Lewis 3 times to get the fight done... and then Lewis chickened out on the rematch after he promised he'd do it for months... Lewis knew he lost the first fight which SHOULD have gone to the scorecards... as you can plainly see by the following video of the illegal thumb-strike....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q ....

the ONLY reason to aim and flip a blow with your forearm... with rotation of the wrist... is to deliver a thumb-strike... A straight right is delivered behind the shoulder - not slapping down at the elbow in a wrist twisting motion... And as you can see he illegally grabbed Vitali's head immediately afterwards and rubbed his head and hair into the wound.

[Kalan]

Its not uncommon for title challengers to give the champ a hard fight, as the saying goes its easier to win the title than defend it. Challengers have a lot to gain and nothing to lose and when they are undefeated they still think they cannot be beat, that mindset makes these fighters dangerous. As expected Klitschko gave it his all in the early rounds but he was starting to tire and by the 6th round he was boxing on the retreat and Lewis was taking over. Had he not been cut I would have expected Lewis to stop him a few rounds later

All your speculation about Lewis coming from behind is irrelevant because Klitschko WAS cut.... and it was a thumb-strike... Meaning the fight should have gone to the scorecards as this video proves...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q ....

the ONLY reason to aim and flip a blow with your forearm... with rotation of the wrist... is to deliver a thumb-strike... A straight right is delivered behind the shoulder - not slapping down at the elbow in a wrist twisting motion... And as you can see he illegally grabbed Vitali's head immediately afterwards and rubbed his head and hair into the wound.

[Boxing Writer]

Swings and roundabouts though isn't it? LL was definitely robbed in the first fight. Never mind Eugenia Williams, to this day I still can't see how Larry O'Connell scored it 115 - 115. Maybe the US judges in the rematch were looking to be overly generous to the away fighter the way O'Connell was looking to be overly generous to the non Brit in the first fight. Who knows?

Yes, Lewis was definitely robbed in the first fight. I scored it 117-111 for Lennox. I scored it this way: 6 wide rounds for Lewis, 3 close rounds for Lewis, 2 wide rounds for Holyfield and 1 close round for Holyfield. I had Holyfield trailing 7-1 before the start of the ninth round.

[Kalan]

Next pile of bullshitt please.

You're the pile of horseshitt.. So are your posts... Wladimir vs Lewis was a blockbuster fight.... Lewis-Johnson was a ZERO.

[Kalan]

FO creep... You're so clueless your breath stinks.

Everybody knew who Wladimir Klitschko was -- and it was a highly anticipated fight.

[Flump]

FO creep... You're so clueless your breath stinks.

Everybody knew who Wladimir Klitschko was -- and it was a highly anticipated fight.

Seriously Kalan, I know this was before your time, but in 2003, nobody was bothered about Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis, it would have been a near mismatch.

[Kalan]

Bull CRAP!!!.... Wladimir was 41-1 before he fought Sanders and Steward called him "The best Heavyweight in many years." ..... He was thought the best possible opponent for Lewis at that time and the Sanders loss shocked everybody.... I could see his technical flaws standing out there like a lantern in a storm.... But very few others did....

Many thought he'd knock Lewis cold with his height... his big right hand... His long left hook that he floored Mercer with... and his overall strength, speed and athletic ability... HIs defects went right over people's heads... PHHHHHHSSSSSSTTTTT

[Flump]

Bull CRAP!!!.... Wladimir was 41-1 before he fought Sanders and Steward called him "The best Heavyweight in many years." ..... He was thought the best possible opponent for Lewis at that time and the Sanders loss shocked everybody.... I could see his technical flaws standing out there like a lantern in a storm.... But very few others did....

Many thought he'd knock Lewis cold with his height... his big right hand... His long left hook that he floored Mercer with... and his overall strength, speed and athletic ability... HIs defects went right over people's heads... PHHHHHHSSSSSSTTTTT

Er, no they didn't. As you weren't old enough to be watching boxing then neither did you.

[Boxing Writer]

FO creep... You're so clueless your breath stinks.

Everybody knew who Wladimir Klitschko was -- and it was a highly anticipated fight.

Seriously Kalan, I know this was before your time, but in 2003, nobody was bothered about Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis, it would have been a near mismatch.

Boxing fans actually considered Wladimir better and more dangerous opponent for Lewis in 2002.

By fighting the 'easier' of the Klitschko brothers, Lewis has shown that at this stage of his career money is the only thing keeping him in the game. I doubt he will ever fight Vladimir. Another point to be raised is that if Vitali wins (which could well happen) then Vladimir will never get a shot at the title even though he is a superior boxer to his brother.
Bruce Grimshaw, Ireland

I'm very disappointed with Lennox for ducking Byrd. The only good reason for Lewis to fight on is to cement his legacy as a great champ. To do that, he needs to keep taking on and beating the best out there.

Vitali Klitschko isn't the best out there, he's not even the best heavyweight in his family. After the Tyson fight, Lewis said a Byrd fight would be too easy and would prove nothing. So why fight a guy who lost to Byrd? The answer is that Lewis is finally losing his hunger and looking for easy paydays.
Gil, Japan

I think Lennox should have taken the fight with Chris Byrd instead of Vitali, since Byrd beat Vitali and earned the mandatory challenger position by beating Tua.

Vitali is a top 10 contender, but I think Chris Byrd is the second best contender next to Vladimir, and I think Lennox is scared to fight him because of his quick, slick, defensive fighting style.

I think the match up for Lennox vs Vitali will be easy for Lennox, similar to the Mike Grant fight. Prediction- Lewis KO within 5 rounds
Dayo Chou, New York

Lennox should return to the ring if he feels comfortable and in good condition. Vitali Klitschko will be a good, tough opponent. I feel the number two fighter in the world, behind Lennox, has to be his Wladimir Klitschco. He is an all-round better boxer than Vitail and would prove more of a test. The fight has been talked about ever since Vitail beat Herbie Hide in 1999, so it should go ahead. Lennox should fight both Klitschko brothers, have a re-match with Tyson and fight the winner of Don King's elimination tournament(probably Roy Jones Jr). Then he can retire with no one even close to him in the heavyweight division.
Anthony Ratnasothy, England

LL will beat VK easily and Vitali is the right opponent now. Only Wlad could give LL more a fight, but neither brother is in Lennox's league and LL will KO them both.
Bob Brown, Texas

You can read it here (I have choosen comments in which people were comparing Vitali and Wladimir - all of them thought Wlad was much more dangerous opponent for Lewis back then in 2002) -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/sports_talk/2530711.stm

And as this article says, Lewis actually planned to fight Wlad after Vitali - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/2528353.stm

[Kalan]

Boxing fans actually considered Wladimir better and more dangerous opponent for Lewis in 2002

Thanks Boxing Writer.... It's like these guys were born yesterday.... Most of the talk when Wladimir so easily outboxed and stopped Ray Mercer and beat Byrd as easy as pie....was that he was the toughest opponent for Lewis.

But Vitali was winning the Lewis fight on all scorecards and SHOULD have been declared the winner by UTD.

As everyone can see the initial nick on Vitali's eyelid was caused by a thumb strike.... Lewis was throwing them all night and engaged in face palming as well... Vitali Klitschko was NOT a bleeder and legal punches did not cut him....

The following video shows Lewis nicking Vitali's left eyelid with a classic thumb-strike... You throw a straight right behind the shoulder, you DON'T throw it from the elbow -- or in a swatting motion or with inward rotation of the thumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q

After the thumb strike Lewis plainly goes hard to grab Vitali's head and rub his head and hair into the wound.