Could Billy Joe Saunders actually be the best Middleweight in the world?

[Enlightened-One]

That video is a few years old. Time doesn't stand still. Fighters are able to decline or improve significantly over a lengthy period like that.

So why post this video? If time really was stationary, then why doesn't Lennox Lewis continue to fight?

[Mexi-Box]

That video is a few years old. Time doesn't stand still. Fighters are able to decline or improve significantly over a lengthy period like that.

So why post this video? If time really was stationary, then why doesn't Lennox Lewis continue to fight?

Don't really need time to know that Saunders loses to Golovkin. Saunders doesn't have the power of Jacobs or the defense and handspeed of Canelo.

[siablo14]

Saunders is a better boxer than Canelo but does he have the power to stop GGG trying to walk through him as he did with Brook? Since the ill fated Brook fight everyone's trying to outbox GGG. Saunders can actually do it.

GGG had to box more cautiously against Jacobs and Canelo because of their obvious power but he might go into ultra aggressive mode against Saunders. Can Saunders handle it, is he that good?

If he beats GGG (!), can he also beat Jacobs?

Lemieux was generally regarded as a "massive" 160lb-er but looked pretty small against Saunders.

While I still currently favour GGG to defeat Saunders, he won't be able to steamroll Billy Joe... and if he tries to do so, without utilising his boxing skills, he'll inevitably lose ... and lose badly!

Saunders hasn't faced anyone with GGG's power and Golovkin hasn't ever shared the ring against an opponent as pugilistically skilled as Saunders, so it'll be an interesting bout.

A 2018 version of Gennady beats the current version of Billy Joe, but with the Brit getting better in leaps and bounds at the Ingle stable, the 2019 veteran version of Golovkin may possibly lose against Saunders.

You don't think Danny Jacobs is better than Saunders?

[Enlightened-One]

Saunders is a better boxer than Canelo but does he have the power to stop GGG trying to walk through him as he did with Brook? Since the ill fated Brook fight everyone's trying to outbox GGG. Saunders can actually do it.

GGG had to box more cautiously against Jacobs and Canelo because of their obvious power but he might go into ultra aggressive mode against Saunders. Can Saunders handle it, is he that good?

If he beats GGG (!), can he also beat Jacobs?

Lemieux was generally regarded as a "massive" 160lb-er but looked pretty small against Saunders.

While I still currently favour GGG to defeat Saunders, he won't be able to steamroll Billy Joe... and if he tries to do so, without utilising his boxing skills, he'll inevitably lose ... and lose badly!

Saunders hasn't faced anyone with GGG's power and Golovkin hasn't ever shared the ring against an opponent as pugilistically skilled as Saunders, so it'll be an interesting bout.

A 2018 version of Gennady beats the current version of Billy Joe, but with the Brit getting better in leaps and bounds at the Ingle stable, the 2019 veteran version of Golovkin may possibly lose against Saunders.

You don't think Danny Jacobs is better than Saunders?

I never mentioned Danny Jacobs, but I was very impressed with the American's performance against GGG.

In fact I'd favour Jacobs to defeat Golovkin if they ever engaged in a rematch, but Abel Sanchez has already dismissed the possibility of his charge facing Danny again.

To be honest, I'm not really sure who would win if Jacobs and Saunders ever shared the ring.

I suppose the American should be considered the favourite, due to having already proved his ability by facing the very best his division had to offer, in the form of GGG, but I don’t have a lot of confidence about this, since there must be a reason why the Brit has been avoided by so many high-profile fighters.

At some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux and Eubank Jr. have all previously declined guaranteed opportunities to face Saunders, with the Brit having already accepted the terms proposed to him (in some cases he even agreed the financials and signed the contracts), whilst others, such as Avtandil Khurtsidze, have actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face him.

Even Demetrius Andrade has recently admitted that he's not ready to face the Brit just yet. And Danny Jacobs has stated that he’d prefer to make the jump to 168lbs, rather than attempt to negotiate a bout with Saunders or earn himself the mandatory challenger position for Billy Joe’s WBO title.

That tells me that Billy Joe’s fellow pros consider the potential “risk” they’d take in facing him wouldn’t be worth the “reward”, which means that he is probably regarded by boxing insiders as a legitimate threat to his peers, hence the reason why it’s challenging for me to believe that Jacobs is capable of scoring a decisive victory over Saunders.

In reality, it’s probably a 50-50 type of fight, with the American being favoured by many, purely due to his deeply impressive performance against Golovkin. I just think that Billy Joe has shown continuous and drastic improvements under the tutelage of his new trainer, Dominic Ingle, and I think his best is yet to come. So who knows what would happen in that fight?

[caldo2025]

Well you said it -- "a win against (Lemieux) shouldn't he blown out of proportion.

Saunders looked excellent against the powerful but one dimensional Canadian.

But no one was raving about him in his previous 3 fights against Lee, Akakov and Monroe.

It's best to take a fighters whole career into consideration when judging his worth.

Saunders has always been inconsistent despite remaining unbeaten.

He could stink it up again next time out.

No, Saunders is not the best middleweight on the planet.

I can't find the darn article but BJS gave an honest view of his career to that point while in camp for the Lemieux bout. BJS had lost his love for the sport and was seriously contemplated retiring as his heart wasn't into it any longer. Sure, those excuses are easy to use in a way to explain a series of blah performances against the 3 opponents that you referenced above but I believed him. It appeared to be honest and it did match his actions because his fights were rare during that time and he basically told people how he wasn't really ready for someone like GGG.

His focus came back for the Lemieux fight and he was saying this before the fight, not after. BJS seems TO ME to be that special kind of boxer that has a remarkable set of tools but his head has to be right and desire needs to be running at a certain level to bring that specialness out. That's how i feel anyway. If BJS fought any other MW that night against Lemieux, he would have made a tough night for anyone.

[caldo2025]

Lemieux was generally regarded as a "massive" 160lb-er but looked pretty small against Saunders.

While I still currently favour GGG to defeat Saunders, he won't be able to steamroll Billy Joe... and if he tries to do so, without utilising his boxing skills, he'll inevitably lose ... and lose badly!

Saunders hasn't faced anyone with GGG's power and Golovkin hasn't ever shared the ring against an opponent as pugilistically skilled as Saunders, so it'll be an interesting bout.

A 2018 version of Gennady beats the current version of Billy Joe, but with the Brit getting better in leaps and bounds at the Ingle stable, the 2019 veteran version of Golovkin may possibly lose against Saunders.

You don't think Danny Jacobs is better than Saunders?

I never mentioned Danny Jacobs, but I was very impressed with the American's performance against GGG.

In fact I'd favour Jacobs to defeat Golovkin if they ever engaged in a rematch, but Abel Sanchez has already dismissed the possibility of his charge facing Danny again.

To be honest, I'm not really sure who would win if Jacobs and Saunders ever shared the ring.

I suppose the American should be considered the favourite, due to having already proved his ability by facing the very best his division had to offer, in the form of GGG, but I don’t have a lot of confidence about this, since there must be a reason why the Brit has been avoided by so many high-profile fighters.

At some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux and Eubank Jr. have all previously declined guaranteed opportunities to face Saunders, with the Brit having already accepted the terms proposed to him (in some cases he even agreed the financials and signed the contracts), whilst others, such as Avtandil Khurtsidze, have actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face him.

Even Demetrius Andrade has recently admitted that he's not ready to face the Brit just yet. And Danny Jacobs has stated that he’d prefer to make the jump to 168lbs, rather than attempt to negotiate a bout with Saunders or earn himself the mandatory challenger position for Billy Joe’s WBO title.

That tells me that Billy Joe’s fellow pros consider the potential “risk” they’d take in facing him wouldn’t be worth the “reward”, which means that he is probably regarded by boxing insiders as a legitimate threat to his peers, hence the reason why it’s challenging for me to believe that Jacobs is capable of scoring a decisive victory over Saunders.

In reality, it’s probably a 50-50 type of fight, with the American being favoured by many, purely due to his deeply impressive performance against Golovkin. I just think that Billy Joe has shown continuous and drastic improvements under the tutelage of his new trainer, Dominic Ingle, and I think his best is yet to come. So who knows what would happen in that fight?

I"m SO TIRED of this Daniel Jacobs crap! The ONLY reason the fight was as close as it was, and I had GGG CLEARLY winning the fight, was due to the fact that Jacobs played dirty pool. He agreed to fight for GGG's IBF belt and sanctioning fee with no intention of making weight on Saturday's second weigh in. He knew that GGG had to make the weight or he'd lose his belt and Jacobs plan was to outweigh him by as much as possible and that was garbage. Genius, but garbage. I'm glad the IBF smartened up because they almost cost a great champion a belt by allowing unfair advantages like that.

Aside from the reported 20 plus pound difference by some in the know, Jacobs had a 24 hour hydration advantage on GGG. That's an enormous advantage from a strength and stamina point of view, never mind the actual weight advantages. Screw Jacobs. GGG knocks his ass out next time.

[caldo2025]

caldo nuthugging a filthy brit, I've heard it all now...



i take your point brother. GGG struggled quite a lot with Canelo's movement from the waist. with BJS its more foot movement than movement from the waist but if anything he's even more difficult to pin down because of that- i don't think GGG would have him up against the ropes for long periods like he did Canelo.

LOL. I've come a long way with my relationship with the filthy Brits. Now they are my favorite boxing fans on the planet. It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am not a big man but i sure was wrong. I"m heading to the UK in May for the 3rd time in 3 years for vacation, shhhhhhh. You can't beat em, join em buddy.

[greg]

That video is a few years old. Time doesn't stand still. Fighters are able to decline or improve significantly over a lengthy period like that.

So why post this video? If time really was stationary, then why doesn't Lennox Lewis continue to fight?

I believe this video is pretty much relevant ...the boxer in question tells what he thinks about his and GGG chances if they fight and who knows it better than him?...what happened since? GGG TKOed same 2 boxers Saunders struggled with for 12 rounds..

[Enlightened-One]

That video is a few years old. Time doesn't stand still. Fighters are able to decline or improve significantly over a lengthy period like that.

So why post this video? If time really was stationary, then why doesn't Lennox Lewis continue to fight?

I believe this video is pretty much relevant ...the boxer in question tells what he thinks about his and GGG chances if they fight and who knows it better than him?...what happened since? GGG TKOed same 2 boxers Saunders struggled with for 12 rounds..

The ability of a fighter roughly four years ago is usually completely irrelevant to their current performance levels.

Billy Joe Saunders has improved significantly since his bout against Chris Eubank Jr., whereas Gennady Golovkin has declined slightly over the equivalent timeframe.

This is only natural considering the Brit is 7½ years younger than the big punching Kazakh.

Billy Joe Saunders may not have been good enough to challenge GGG roughly four years ago, but he has improved significantly since that date and I feel that he is entitled to change his mind and be self-confident about his own ability to defy the betting odds to score an upset victory over a future Hall-of-Famer like Gennady Golovkin.

We don’t have to agree with Billy Joe’s self-confidence, but every fighter should believe in themselves, regardless as to whatever us fight fans think. No fighter should ever enter the ring against an opponent that they sincerely believe that they cannot possibly beat!

According to you though, time stands still, people cannot improve and nor do you believe that they are entitled to change their minds.

[Counter-puncher]

caldo nuthugging a filthy brit, I've heard it all now...



i take your point brother. GGG struggled quite a lot with Canelo's movement from the waist. with BJS its more foot movement than movement from the waist but if anything he's even more difficult to pin down because of that- i don't think GGG would have him up against the ropes for long periods like he did Canelo.

LOL. I've come a long way with my relationship with the filthy Brits. Now they are my favorite boxing fans on the planet. It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am not a big man but i sure was wrong. I"m heading to the UK in May for the 3rd time in 3 years for vacation, shhhhhhh. You can't beat em, join em buddy.

[tigermoth87]

No

I don't think he's consistent enough, is too lazy and takes his foot off the gas too often.

The performance against Lemiuex was great. But he's also almost thrown it away Vs Eubank after getting complacent, struggled against poor fighters such as that Russian etc.

[BitPlayer]

Let's not forget that GGG also looked great, if not better, against Lemieux. BJS struggled with Eubank Jr. That's the reason why Eubank Jr. had such a big name for a while. It's because he had a close contest with BJS.

No, the fight was only close because Saunders was out of shape, and it was still a clear win.

Plus all the Eubank defenders made excuses for that performance and kept going on about how much he improved since. The hype was from Instagram and lower level opponents, half of which had lost to a younger Saunders.

[greg]

.....................................................................

According to you though, time stands still, people cannot improve and nor do you believe that they are entitled to change their minds.

..feel free to quote me saying exactly that...you can't? then don't put your words into my mouth...I don't know who's gonna win today, if I could prophesy, I would be in a different line of business...what I know is that since that time when Saunders claimed Golovkin beat him, GGG has upped his level of competition and like I said TKOed those who Saunders only managed to decision...and no, I haven't seen any proof of him slipping yet...

[BitPlayer]

No

I don't think he's consistent enough, is too lazy and takes his foot off the gas too often.

The performance against Lemiuex was great. But he's also almost thrown it away Vs Eubank after getting complacent, struggled against poor fighters such as that Russian etc.

I Don't get the logic saying that in shape he couldn't beat Golovkin, because he fought a low level opponent while completely out of shape.

[ValMar]

Never !

[Boxerbeetle]

I’m not even sure he’s top 3.

[Evander]

He can't hit.
He can box.

[caldo2025]

He can't hit.
He can box.

He may not have great power but yes, he can box and his defense is filthy and his hand speed surprised the hell out of me. I would absolutely hate to fight BJS. He doesn't give much of a window of opportunity with his defense.

[jamamb]

i feel lemieux may be really flattering, as he hugely was for gggs defense and boxing skill. lem couldnt land a punch on usually hittable but then then remember how different ggg v lem looked from ggg v jacobs, canelo, and even brook. ggg hasnt looked as skilled a boxer vs anyone as he did vs lemieux.

would be intersting how bjs would look vs a fast athletic boxer like jacobs, charlo, andrade. also even though canelo plods his hand speed and accuracy are levels and levels above lemieux

Im pretty weary of rating a guy super high based on a single showing so much better then all the others. no doubt hes good, better then first thought, but just months before it just took someone like monroe for him to not look too sharp and lose like 4 rounds and monroe was hardly punching

[Evander]

BJS will wait until after the GGG v Canelo fight and look at his options.

Way it's going the 2nd half of the year will be more explosive than the 1st half.
Some of the players ... Spence, Thurman, Crawford and Lomachenko either have easier fights or none at all.
There's a lot of talking but no major kick offs.
It will be a stand off come May and whoever wants it more will step up and agree to fight someone dangerous in the Autumn.

[tennessee]

He may very well be the best, we just have to wait and see. Reality Trump's predictions.

[TheLeprechaun]

Saunders probably is the best at 160. I think id favour him over anyone in the division

[boxing_rocks]

Absolutely not.

[jamamb]

Saunders probably is the best at 160. I think id favour him over anyone in the division

im surprised by that mate, i remember you posted this only like 2 weeks ago

I think the difference between Lemieux and GGG is huge and we saw that when they fought. BJS looked amazing vs Lemieux but one of the things that GGG does 100x better than Lemiuex is cut off the ring. Saunders struggled and was in survival mode when Eubank was pressing forward in the second half of their bout and based on that I think GGG would win the fight. You can't really judge off the Lemiuex fight.

[jamamb]

id be very curious how ppl would compare the mws like charlo, canelo, andrade, jacobs, ggg, etc if they all fought 'career best' lemieux. does anyone think lemieux would win any of those. my guess is suddenly everyones boxing has improved!