WBC May Create New Division, Split Heavyweight Class in Two

[asdfjkl]

How many boxers are above 225 pounds? I think it will only make the division smaller. It's a good excuse somehow to make Wilder champion forever.

[candyslim]

There is a 150 year branding of the Heavyweight Champion as the baddest man on the planet. There can't be a division above it or that will be ruined and be another thing to turn off casuals.

I agree with this. The division that had Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson still has a modicum of cache that basically goes in the bin of there is suddenly a weight above what they fought at. On the other hand the simple solution to that is to just call the new weight class Super Cruiserweight or something like that and have Heavyweight remain the weight unlimited one.

But either way unless the new division is 215 or so you'll just end up with half the "Super Heavies" boiling down to the new weight and another division with Joshua, Pulev and some mediocre fatties. Joshua needs more competition, not less.

Fair point, so don't change the name to Super-heavyweight keep it Heavyweight and rename the new division as they have in the past. Heavyweights have frequently been referred to by boxing scribes as 'Dreadnoughts' and continuing the nautical theme you could call the the new division Heavy-cruiserweight, and re-name the 200 pounders (or even 190 pounders) to Light-cruiserweight?

Then in 40 years or so when the top Heavyweights are 7' and 300lbs this means guys that are bfw 260 and can't make the Heavy-cruiserweight limit of say 230 will be hoping for a new division which could be 'Battle-cruiserweight' Ok perhaps I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here

[Boxing Prospect]

...super cruiserweight?

[candyslim]

No reason why not I just like the light and heavy cruiser tag like the navy cruiser classification.

Then again we seem to be devoid of the originality of those who came up with the earliest weight classifications, I mean doesn't the name 'Bantamweight or Featherweight seem so much more imaginative than Junior-lightweight, Light-welterweight, or Super-middleweight?

At least Cruiserweight shows a little more inspiration. In keeping with that naval theme we could have had Destroyerweight, Frigateweight, Corvetteweight or even Brigweight , Schoonerweight, Clipperweight.

Then there's Bantamweight which offers up fowl related possibilities ... Roosterweight, Cockerelweight ... erm now I'm struggling. Sorry that was rather a poultry selection

Then you've got Welter which denotes turmoil or chaos etc which offers some interesting possibilities, or maybe meteorological such as Stormweight, Hurricane, Tempest, Typhoon there are loads of names to pick from without exhibiting the poverty of imagination suggested by, for example, Super-welterweight.

But of course the first question at this stage is whether another weight division is even desirable?

[ValMar]

I think it should be no more than 12 weight divisions.

[Ruthless-RKO]

"It is a change, that if it happens, it's going to have a lot of resistance - because you are going against history, all of the records, statistics, how they would be perceived - but all of that will always be secondary, because what matters is the security and the physical health of the fighter," Sulaiman said.

"The reality is that obviously there are fights where the physical difference [in weight] becomes dangerous. In the cruiserweight division, the limit is 200 pounds and then there is no limit."

"Recently the weight of the champions [at heavyweight] is 250 or 260 pounds and they fought with opponents who are about 205-210. I want to ask [the WBC's medical team] to do research on the side of medicine to collect data. We will conduct a weight study and perhaps establish the new division. We want boxers to be in the best position to protect their health."

Sulaiman's idea is still flawed. Because a fighter can weigh 250 and still face an opponent like a Nikolai Valuev who was over 300 pounds - which still would create a 50 pound or more weight difference.

Haye weighed 217 pounds when he challenged Valuev, who weighed 316, for the WBA title. Even with a 99 pound weight difference, Haye not only won but he came close to stopping Valuev in the final round.

Haye was also 210 when he scored knockouts over Audley Harrison at 253 and Dereck Chisora at 247.

[candyslim]

It's funny you know I was only thinking about this yesterday, and this comes up today. I was thinking how the optimum 1970s size Heavyweight 6' 3" 215lbs is dwarfed by the optimum size Heavyweight of this decade 6' 6" 250lbs, and unless they (today's fighters of 1970s dimensions) are blessed with skills like a Holyfield or a Usyk, they are at a distinct disadvantage.

I understand the arguments about diluting a division that's already perceived to be weak, and how fighters should be able to boil down or bulk up, as well as how the greedy sanctioning bodies are looking to leech even more money, and how there are already way too many champions, but I recall many of these arguments being voiced when they introduced the concept of a new division at 13st 8lbs IIRC which was going to be called Cruiserweight (historically an alternative name for Light-heavyweight). It's way before my time but imagine their were similar complaints about the introduction of Light-heavyweight.

The point is those that can succeed will fight at Super-heavyweight because that's where the big bucks will be, but those who fall between the two stools have something to aim at. The new division would start out the red-headed bastard step-child as they always have, but gradually they attain respectability.

I wouln't go so far as to say I'm fully in favour but to those who are dead-set against, I'd like to ask you whether you consider the Cruiserweight division to be a good thing for boxing, and how would you feel now about proposals to discontinue it?

Anyone care to answer the question?

[Ossyrules]

There’s not enough talent to make this work.

200-220 or whatever they’d do would be a grave yard it’d also become a more meaningless title. The biggest champion holds the belt for the biggest man.

Keep it as one division

[Ossyrules]

It's funny you know I was only thinking about this yesterday, and this comes up today. I was thinking how the optimum 1970s size Heavyweight 6' 3" 215lbs is dwarfed by the optimum size Heavyweight of this decade 6' 6" 250lbs, and unless they (today's fighters of 1970s dimensions) are blessed with skills like a Holyfield or a Usyk, they are at a distinct disadvantage.

I understand the arguments about diluting a division that's already perceived to be weak, and how fighters should be able to boil down or bulk up, as well as how the greedy sanctioning bodies are looking to leech even more money, and how there are already way too many champions, but I recall many of these arguments being voiced when they introduced the concept of a new division at 13st 8lbs IIRC which was going to be called Cruiserweight (historically an alternative name for Light-heavyweight). It's way before my time but imagine their were similar complaints about the introduction of Light-heavyweight.

The point is those that can succeed will fight at Super-heavyweight because that's where the big bucks will be, but those who fall between the two stools have something to aim at. The new division would start out the red-headed bastard step-child as they always have, but gradually they attain respectability.

I wouln't go so far as to say I'm fully in favour but to those who are dead-set against, I'd like to ask you whether you consider the Cruiserweight division to be a good thing for boxing, and how would you feel now about proposals to discontinue it?

Anyone care to answer the question?

Cruiser fills a nice gap, but that doesn’t mean the blue print is too create a new division

[candyslim]

Fair comment but that wasn't my question.

[candyslim]

Maybe but I get a feeling of deja-vu here. I'm arguing like I'm in favour but really I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm undecided.

[Ossyrules]

Fair comment but that wasn't my question.

Pretty much answers it unless I’ve misread. Cruiser fills a nice gap, so discontinue it would leave a big gap for fighters around the 190lb mark.

I suppose it would give the heavy division a shot in the arm with a load of smaller guys who couldn’t do 175. But realistically the cruisers unless they have some proper skills get beat on size to most heavies

[candyslim]

My 'doesn't answer the question' comment, was posted before I read the second of your two posts, so the second of my two posts is in answer to that.

The point I'm making is that Cruiser is a very entertaining and respected division, and no sane boxing fan would want to lose it now. At the time it was first put forward it was about as popular as this 'Super-cruiserweight' proposal is currently.

"Of course the increase in WBC coffers via the implemented proliferation of sanctioning fees has to be our paramount concern" Oh know he didn't say that did he - just my imagination flipping out for a moment there.

[BitPlayer]

How many boxers are above 225 pounds? I think it will only make the division smaller. It's a good excuse somehow to make Wilder champion forever.

Probably nearly all of any note. Most of the ones that aren't would probably just put on more fat.

Wilder could be a champ in two weights though.

[Syntax Error]

Ridiculous & unnecessary idea.

The Heavyweight division has the prestige & as such, it carries the sport of boxing, even if, sometimes it doesn't deserve to do so.

Splitting it in two would make a mockery of the history of the sport.

[tiny_acres]

Ridiculous & unnecessary idea.

The Heavyweight division has the prestige & as such, it carries the sport of boxing, even if, sometimes it doesn't deserve to do so.

Splitting it in two would make a mockery of the history of the sport.

I'm old. I remember when the same thing was said of the cruiserweight division.
I don't want to see it happen. But it's not the end of the world to me

[candyslim]

I don't have any idea of your age SE but what did you say/ would you have said, in the late seventies regarding proposals to introduce a new weight class between 175 and 190 lbs thereby splitting the Heavyweight division into two (Heavyweight and Cruiserweight?)

That's a genuine question I'n not trying to score points or anything.

[tiny_acres]

I don't have any idea of your age SE but what did you say/ would you have said, in the late seventies regarding proposals to introduce a new weight class between 175 and 190 lbs thereby splitting the Heavyweight division into two (Heavyweight and Cruiserweight?)

That's a genuine question I'n not trying to score points or anything.

When the division was split I was saying the same crap we all are saying now.
It took nearly 40 years for the cruiserweight division to become the hot bed it is now. It may take 40 more years for the new division to do the same

[candyslim]

You're right Tony it took a long time to bear fruit but would anyone want to abolish the Cruiserweight division now?

That's a question directed mainly at those who would be in favour of reducing the number of weight classes.

[Ruthless-RKO]

WBC Prez: We Won't Be Splitting Heavyweights - It's Untouchable

Sulaiman was looking a the idea of making a super heavyweight division - for boxers who were 240-pounds and beyond.

Putting that plan into motion would create more harm than good. It would actually block a possible unification between Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua - as Wilder usually weighs around 214 to 229 and Joshua is between 240 to 250.

After reviewing everything, Sulaiman says there is no way the split would happen for a variety of reasons.

"We started this pilot program where we analyzed [the idea from a] medical, psychological and statistical aspect. From the 70s and 80s there have been significant changes in the division, but after studying the results, it revealed that there are not enough fighters who could enter the super heavyweight division," Sulaiman told Alvaro Carrera.

"So I think that the name and heavyweight division itself will not change, it is untouchable. It's true that in some fights the difference of weight is great.. for example Luis Ortiz had 30 pounds over Wilder in his last bout, but it did not worry us. The size difference between a light heavyweight and a cruiserweight is where we see the greatest advantage."

With respect to the cruiserweight division, Sulaiman was very satisfied with the initiative of the World Boxing Super Series, which united the best eight fighters in the division for an elimination tournament.

"The cruiserweight category is a big division, but it has suffered by being in the shadow of the heavyweights since it was born. There are big fighters, but with greater physical ability than the heavyweights. It's a very competitive division and the World Boxing Super Series has shown it. The best thing that has happened to the category is going to the big unification between Usyk and Gassiev, that will be a historic fight," Sulaiman said.

[Enlightened-One]

I don’t know what the stats are for the entire population, but from a sample of the top-30 fighters, most of them are around the 240lbs mark or more.

I think it’s inevitable that the idea will be revisited at some point in the relatively near future, because it’s undeniable that those competing as heavyweights in the current era are far heavier and taller than their counterparts who competed as recently as fifteen years ago.

People keep growing in height and weight, which means the gap between cruiserweights and heavyweights will continue to grow indefinitely. A new weight class will be introduced at some point.

[Lackeos]

I don't irrationally hate the idea of splitting the division as much as some people do. However, I am concerned about what happens once you apply weight draining. Like, if you have a 220-pound weight limit, and fighters are draining 14 pounds, then you basically have guys 234 pounds who are still boiling down to the lower division. Even Wilder could make the lower division without hardly draining. It would be interesting, but pretty weird, because like 80% of the heavyweight division could boil down to 220 if they tried.

[caldo2025]

If you’re a 6’ 3” (or shorter) highly-athletic heavyweight that naturally walks around somewhere around the 225lbs mark, then you’re in “no man’s land”, because you’ll be far too big for the cruiserweight division, but also having to endure a significant size disadvantage against some of your heavyweight peers.

I have a spread sheet that contains the heights and weights of the top sixty fighters rated by BoxRec (from February), which appeared to illustrates a huge disparity in sizes…

The average height of the top-30 tallest boxers was 77”, with the average for the bottom half being 75”.

The average weight of a top-30 heaviest boxer was 257.5lbs, with the average for the bottom half being 236.5lbs.

I suspect that most of the smaller heavyweights are intentionally doing their upmost to make themselves bigger in order to compete against the divisions’ behemoths, so they're having to weigh more than what should be considered optimal.

If the WBC introduced a new division (from 201lbs to 225lbs), I bet that most of the smaller heavyweights could easily cut weight to make the new stipulated weight limit.

It has nothing to do with helping out the "no man's land " boxers and making sure that they have a division. It's about safety. Obviously, CTE and brain related injuries are huge focuses in all sports so Boxing is and WBC are just catching up and doing something proactively for once.

Just because they put another division in between, it doesn't mean that boxers HAVE to fight in it. Anyone over 175 pounds can fight heavyweight if they want so unless they change that then it's the same old same old. The gifted 215 pound boxer can still be a heavyweight champion no matter what they do so who cares?

[bigman1968]

It's a good idea...togever with cancelling 3-4 weight "divisions" in the low weights!

Every 3-4 pound is different "division" down where

[Ruthless-RKO]

It's a good idea...togever with cancelling 3-4 weight "divisions" in the low weights!

Every 3-4 pound is different "division" down where

Yet some fighters still come overweight in the lower divisions.