Ron Draper & other highly decorated amateurs who failed as pros

[sweetviolenturge]

Ron Draper was the 1971 National Golden Gloves heavyweight champion. A feat that in many circumstances would have launched a successful pro career. Unfortunately, in Draper's case, it didn't turn out that way as by his second pro fight he was thrown in with the then 10-0 US Olympian Duane Bobick as an opponent. He was KO'd in 4 rounds of a scheduled 8 & that signaled what was to become of his career. He became a journeyman/trialhorse that finished his career with a record of 8-30-1. During which he mixed with men like Scott Ledoux, Randy Stephens, John Tate, Tony Tubbs & many others of note. Losing to them all of course.
Men like Draper have always fascinated me. Especially those in the heavyweight division. Men who were stellar amateurs whose pro careers never amounted to anything.
While many national GG, AAU, USABF champions have gone onto great success to varying degrees like Jerry Quarry, Earnie Shavers, Greg Page, Michael Dokes, Mike Tyson etc. there are just as many cases of individuals like Vic Brown, Draper, Woody Clark, Wesley Watson, John Bray, Jerry Goff etc. who failed to do anything of note once they turned pro.
It's an interesting subject to discuss. One that gets even more interesting when one goes outside of the heavyweight class to all the other divisions in boxing.
Do the rest of you have examples of successful amateur fighters that one would assume would be successful as professionals as well but never made it past opponent or journeyman status?

[jamamb]

2-8 excel holmes fought internationally for the usa as an amateur and was rated top 5 nationally

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/495798

7-12 andre cathron was natonal golden gloves runner up. calforna golden gloves champ and rated near the top natonally

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/470674


not that these guys were super star amateurs. but they were near the top nationally and pretty much everyone else as succesful as these guys as an amateur were much more succesful as pros.

[jamamb]

also bantamweght oylmpc gold medalst yan barthlemy was 13-3 with no notable wins as pro. lost to a 6-4 club fghter and got stopped as soon as he faced anyone good enough to merely be considered a prospect. not as bad a record as the others but really accomplshed nothng memorable at all as a pro.

he has a bro who on the other hand won world ttles at 130 and 135

[HomicideHenry]

When I think of Heavyweight amateurs who didn't go nowhere in the pros I can't help but think of Clay Hodges.... Probably best known to fans today as having played Jess Willard in the Dempsey film starring Treat Williams.

Hodges had an amazing amateur record, and the biggest trophy on his wall was George Foreman. He was the '67 Golden Gloves champion.

In 1970 he turned pro. He had three straight wins (one against 3-0-0 Jimmy Young) and then he lost on TKO in the 5th round to some 2-2 heavyweight named Kenyatta Hockenbull. Apparently the TKO was because of a dislocated jaw.

Regardless, the loss must have been too much for Hodges as he announced his retirement from boxing right then and there. 3-1-0 (2) was how it went down. Just one year as a professional.

[sweetviolenturge]

2-8 excel holmes fought internationally for the usa as an amateur and was rated top 5 nationally

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/495798

7-12 andre cathron was natonal golden gloves runner up. calforna golden gloves champ and rated near the top natonally

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/470674


not that these guys were super star amateurs. but they were near the top nationally and pretty much everyone else as succesful as these guys as an amateur were much more succesful as pros.

A terrific example of the subject at hand in my fellow Buffalo-native, Excel Holmes.
I followed his amateur career about as closely as one could & expected him to have a decent shot at some success as a pro but it wasn't to be.

[sweetviolenturge]

When I think of Heavyweight amateurs who didn't go nowhere in the pros I can't help but think of Clay Hodges.... Probably best known to fans today as having played Jess Willard in the Dempsey film starring Treat Williams.

Hodges had an amazing amateur record, and the biggest trophy on his wall was George Foreman. He was the '67 Golden Gloves champion.

In 1970 he turned pro. He had three straight wins (one against 3-0-0 Jimmy Young) and then he lost on TKO in the 5th round to some 2-2 heavyweight named Kenyatta Hockenbull. Apparently the TKO was because of a dislocated jaw.

Regardless, the loss must have been too much for Hodges as he announced his retirement from boxing right then and there. 3-1-0 (2) was how it went down. Just one year as a professional.

Another excellent example.
In fact, an individual who beat Clay Hodges ( & Ken Norton ) in the 1967 Pan Am Games had a somewhat similar career in that once he lost once or twice as a pro that was it for him.
That fighter was Forest Ward. Who was another stellar Simon Pure fighter, but just couldn't seem to handle the rigors of the pro game. He retired after only a dozen pro fights. Finishing 8-2-2. Not terrible, but he was KO'd by the two best heavies that he met in Chuck Wepner & Bill Drover.

[HomicideHenry]

Coley Wallace is another one who comes to mind.... Probably most famous for playing "The Brown Bomber" in the movie THE JOE LOUIS STORY in 1953.

As an amateur he most famously "beat" Rocky Marciano in a highly unpopular, controversial decision that caused the arena to riot. It's worth noting years later that when Marciano was a top contender he was told his old rival Wallace had gotten knocked out, and he laughed his ass off.

Anyways, Wallace despite his big push by Hollywood and the promoters, ended up being 22-7 (16) as a professional. He lost to Ezzard Charles, Bob Baker (2x), Jimmy Bivins, and a few unknown fringe guys. Probably the best win of his career was against Bob Dunlap.... Not the stuff to write home to the folks about.

It's got to be noted that in the amateurs Wallace defeated the same Bob Baker who defeated Wallace twice in the pros. He also defeated Clarence Henry.

[HomicideHenry]

Paea Wolfgramm also comes to mind. Silver medalist in the famous 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta, narrowly losing the Gold to Wladimir Klitschko.

He had a promising pro career. However, a six round loss to Marion Wilson, gave an indication that possibly something was "off" or incomplete in the Tongan Warrior's repertoire.

He and Klitschko would have their much ballyhooed grudge rematch in 2000.... and it effectively killed off Wolfgramm's career in professional boxing. A first round knockout loss.

Though he'd rebound with a win over Jimmy Thunder, he would lose yet again by knockout to Corey "T-Rex" Sanders.... Officially ending his career with 20 wins and 4 losses.

[Controversial]

It just goes to show that skill alone doesn't guarantee anything in boxing.

Ricardo Williams Jr
Henry Tillman
Michael Bennett

[sweetviolenturge]

Warren Thompson was yet another national AAU champ at super-heavy who didn't amount to anything as a pro. He won it in 198 & then went on to lose his pro debut to Mike "The Bounty" Hunter via a 4 round split nod. He then went on to fight 14 more times as a pro meeting men like future champions Bruce Seldon & Henry Akinwande while finishing just 5 - 10.

Then there are the men that may have been more successful had they turned pro earlier in their careers but who may have spent all their best fighting years in the amateur ranks & who were burnt out by the time they joined the paid ranks. One such example may be Nick Wells of Texas who won a host of amateur laurels while compiling an amazing 189 - 18 including two KO victories over future all-time great champion Larry Holmes.
Wells was a dangerous southpaw banger who scored 110 KOs as an amateur. 72 of them in the opening round.
As a pro though, Wells never amounted to much. By his fifth bout, he was getting KO'd in a ten round main event by Mike Koranicki. From which he never fully recovered becoming a hit & miss journeyman & finishing at 15-7.

[HomicideHenry]

Cliff Fields, in a sense, comes to mind. Very solid amateur credentials. Terror of the unlicensed circuit. Most famously starched Lenny McLean in one round. Roy Shaw and many others were absolutely terrified of fighting the guy, flat out refused to do so.

He then fights Richard Dunn.... the same guy who was Ali's last knockout victory.... The unlicensed circuit promoters figured Fields could win, and parlay that into a megafight with Ali. Unfortunately for them, Fields was completely outclassed and knocked out by Dunn.

The universal disparity between that level of boxing versus the European level of boxing was staggering for many observers who bought into the hype on Fields hook, line and sinker.

[Nile4000]

Jimmy Clark and Marvin Stinson also belong on this list.

[Dart340]

The most glaring and interesting example I know of, but a guy even the experts and diehards likely wouldn't recognize, was an amateur heavyweight champion from Texas in the late 70's named Roberto Reynosa who won all kinds of amateur fights and awards in San Antonio and turned pro at a young age with much local buzz.

He is listed as having won only one fight on BoxRec and losing a dozen or so, but he had numerous fights not recognized because he either fought on small town cards or fought under an alias- as he did when he came to Indianapolis and fought Marvin Johnson as a last minute replacement. He hit such a low point that Mike Marley did an article on one of the magazines on the worst 10 heavyweights of 1979 and listed him in the middle and busted him for several of his assumed names that he was using in tanktowns. Interestingly enough, he fought prospect Grady Daniels in Illinois and was promoted as the "Texas State Heavyweight Champion" He only fought for a couple years and then faded completely into the mists.

[Thunder and Lightning]

To a lesser degree then some others mentioned here swede Hans Thomsen won an olympic bronze in 1972 and turned pro in 73 his record though stands at 0-1-3 (1 no contest).
Whats a bit intresting to me is his opponents in those few fights, in his debut he fought a guy with over 100 fights (47-56-10) seems a bit hefty for a debut, next up a guy with a 13-5 record, Third a 10-0 fighter, fourth another undefeated at 7-0 and lastly a 13-2 fighter.
None of them were probably worldbeaters and its not like Hans was a future world champion but I just thought it seemed abit loopsided.

[HomicideHenry]

To a lesser degree then some others mentioned here swede Hans Thomsen won an olympic bronze in 1972 and turned pro in 73 his record though stands at 0-1-3 (1 no contest).
Whats a bit intresting to me is his opponents in those few fights, in his debut he fought a guy with over 100 fights (47-56-10) seems a bit hefty for a debut, next up a guy with a 13-5 record, Third a 10-0 fighter, fourth another undefeated at 7-0 and lastly a 13-2 fighter.
None of them were probably worldbeaters and its not like Hans was a future world champion but I just thought it seemed abit loopsided.

Talk about getting railroaded

[sweetviolenturge]

Thanks for those additional examples gentlemen.
Like I said, it's a subject that has always fascinated me.