Joe Joyce's career path

[Lackeos]

Another thing I'd like to point out, and again, this is not to hate on Joe Joyce, but there are other fighters who have had superior competition through four fights. Some examples I can think of include Luis Ortiz, Kubrat Pulev, Odlanier Solis, and Tyrell Biggs. I feel like anyone who's been around for a bit should be able to remember that Ortiz, Pulev, and Solis all got attention for how fast their early matchmaking was.

Actually, you're mistaken, my friend.
Let's start with Tyrell Biggs who began his career in a 6 round bout with Mike Evans ( 3-1-1 ). He followed that with three more 6 round bouts against the trio of Mike Perkins ( 16-7-1 ), Grady Daniels ( 9-19 ) & Eddie Richardson ( 9-1 ).
Kubret Pulev began his career in a 4 rounder vs one, Florian Bench ( 2-3 ), a 4 rounder vs Serdar Uysal ( 9-18-2 ), a 6 vs Gbenga Oluokun ( 17-2 ) & another 6 vs Zack Page ( 19-25-2 ).
Luis Ortiz got his start in a 4 rounder vs Lamar Davis ( 4-1 ), a 6 rounder vs Charles Davis ( 19-19-2 ), stepped up to an 8 vs Kendrick Releford ( 22-13-2 ) & had another 8 vs Zack Page ( 21-30-2 ).
And, lastly, Odlanier Solis began his career in a 4 rounder vs Andreas Sidon ( 32-7 ), a 4 vs Olek Mazikin ( 10-1 ), a 4 vs Aldo Colliander ( 12-1 ) & a 6 vs Marcus McGee ( 19-13 ).

Now contrast those records against Joe Joyce's record who began his career in a scheduled 10 rounder vs Ian Lewison ( 12-3-1 ), an 8 vs Rudolf Jozic ( 4-1 ), an 8 vs Donnie Palmer ( 9-1-1 ) & a 12 round commonwealth title fight vs Lenroy Thomas ( 22-4-1 ).
Although Solis & Ortiz faced opposition that was similar in quality ( or better if one cares to argue the point ) to Joyce's opposition they were both fighting prelim bouts scheduled for 4 & 6 rounds while Joyce has been fighting main event quality bouts of 10 & 12 rounds & winning respected regional titles. So, I'd say that four bouts Joyce has the more advanced career at this point.

And if Joyce was fighting a durable journeyman equivalent to Zack Page and Kendrick Releford, then those fights scheduled for 8 rounds would've actually lasted 8 rounds. Instead, he was fighting bums in what turned out to actually be 1-rounders and 2-rounders. I'm not sure why you think it's relevant how many rounds the fight was scheduled for if anyone could see that it wasn't going to actually last more than 2.

Palmer, Jovic, Thomas, and Lewison have never lasted the distance against anyone decent (other than Derrick Rossy 1 time). Page has lasted the distance against countless good opponents, and he also has several wins that equal or surpass Lewison's only decent win. Releford has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only decent win. Oloukun has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only good win. Palmer and Jozic don't have any wins over anyone except corpses.

Honestly, your entire post seems to imply that you judge opposition based on their win percentage, but you can't actually surmise anything about how good a fighter is that way. You're seriously comparing fighters like Jozic, who have never beaten anyone with a pulse, to fighters like Zack Page, who has beaten Jeremy Bates, Lou Del Valle, Cisse Salif, Eugene Hill, Kassim Howard, Hector Ferreyro, Sabastien Koeber, Kevin McBride; all of whom, I assure you, are light years ahead of the corpses Jovic beat -- Branislav Plavsic, Sinan Baran, Muhammed Ali Durmaz, and Zoran Grbic. Zack Page's wins are names I've read 200 times each, Jovic's wins are names that literally no one on the entire forum has ever read (granted, I've heard of Muhammed Ali, just never followed by Durmaz). Most likely, their parents have never even heard of them. Zack Page has gone the distance with Johnathon Banks, Guillermo Jones, Mike Perez x2, Kubrat Pulev, Seth Mitchell, Yoan Pablo Hernandez, Juan Carlos Gomez, Manuel Charr, Tyson Fury, Edmund Gerber, Francesco Pianeta, etc. Lenroy Thomas has never demonstrated durability like that -- he got knocked out in almost all of his losses, including against Arron Lyons. Lewison also has no great demonstrations of durability, other than being stopped in 10 rounds against Whyte. Between Palmer and Jovic, the only time they've ever demonstrated durability was lasting 6 rounds against a clubfighter, and getting stopped in 7 rounds by another clubfighter. These are the type of fighters that Ortiz, Solis, Pulev, and Biggs would've steamrolled in 1 round, even if it was scheduled for 12 rounds and the Commonwealth title was on the line.

Mike Perkins was pretty inconsistent, but he's beaten 3 opponents who were better than or equal to Lewison / Lenroy, with the greatest of those wins coming immediately before the Biggs fight.

So, the point is, you are dazzled by padded records, and can't tell whether those wins are coming against good or bad opponents, and you seem to think a lack of losses implies that the fighter is good, when it actually means that they merely haven't been matched against the kind of opposition that Page / Oloukun / Releford have been matched against.

[sweetviolenturge]

Another thing I'd like to point out, and again, this is not to hate on Joe Joyce, but there are other fighters who have had superior competition through four fights. Some examples I can think of include Luis Ortiz, Kubrat Pulev, Odlanier Solis, and Tyrell Biggs. I feel like anyone who's been around for a bit should be able to remember that Ortiz, Pulev, and Solis all got attention for how fast their early matchmaking was.

Actually, you're mistaken, my friend.
Let's start with Tyrell Biggs who began his career in a 6 round bout with Mike Evans ( 3-1-1 ). He followed that with three more 6 round bouts against the trio of Mike Perkins ( 16-7-1 ), Grady Daniels ( 9-19 ) & Eddie Richardson ( 9-1 ).
Kubret Pulev began his career in a 4 rounder vs one, Florian Bench ( 2-3 ), a 4 rounder vs Serdar Uysal ( 9-18-2 ), a 6 vs Gbenga Oluokun ( 17-2 ) & another 6 vs Zack Page ( 19-25-2 ).
Luis Ortiz got his start in a 4 rounder vs Lamar Davis ( 4-1 ), a 6 rounder vs Charles Davis ( 19-19-2 ), stepped up to an 8 vs Kendrick Releford ( 22-13-2 ) & had another 8 vs Zack Page ( 21-30-2 ).
And, lastly, Odlanier Solis began his career in a 4 rounder vs Andreas Sidon ( 32-7 ), a 4 vs Olek Mazikin ( 10-1 ), a 4 vs Aldo Colliander ( 12-1 ) & a 6 vs Marcus McGee ( 19-13 ).

Now contrast those records against Joe Joyce's record who began his career in a scheduled 10 rounder vs Ian Lewison ( 12-3-1 ), an 8 vs Rudolf Jozic ( 4-1 ), an 8 vs Donnie Palmer ( 9-1-1 ) & a 12 round commonwealth title fight vs Lenroy Thomas ( 22-4-1 ).
Although Solis & Ortiz faced opposition that was similar in quality ( or better if one cares to argue the point ) to Joyce's opposition they were both fighting prelim bouts scheduled for 4 & 6 rounds while Joyce has been fighting main event quality bouts of 10 & 12 rounds & winning respected regional titles. So, I'd say that four bouts Joyce has the more advanced career at this point.

And if Joyce was fighting a durable journeyman equivalent to Zack Page and Kendrick Releford, then those fights scheduled for 8 rounds would've actually lasted 8 rounds. Instead, he was fighting bums in what turned out to actually be 1-rounders and 2-rounders. I'm not sure why you think it's relevant how many rounds the fight was scheduled for if anyone could see that it wasn't going to actually last more than 2.

Palmer, Jovic, Thomas, and Lewison have never lasted the distance against anyone decent (other than Derrick Rossy 1 time). Page has lasted the distance against countless good opponents, and he also has several wins that equal or surpass Lewison's only decent win. Releford has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only decent win. Oloukun has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only good win. Palmer and Jozic don't have any wins over anyone except corpses.

Honestly, your entire post seems to imply that you judge opposition based on their win percentage, but you can't actually surmise anything about how good a fighter is that way. You're seriously comparing fighters like Jozic, who have never beaten anyone with a pulse, to fighters like Zack Page, who has beaten Jeremy Bates, Lou Del Valle, Cisse Salif, Eugene Hill, Kassim Howard, Hector Ferreyro, Sabastien Koeber, Kevin McBride; all of whom, I assure you, are light years ahead of the corpses Jovic beat -- Branislav Plavsic, Sinan Baran, Muhammed Ali Durmaz, and Zoran Grbic. Zack Page's wins are names I've read 200 times each, Jovic's wins are names that literally no one on the entire forum has ever read (granted, I've heard of Muhammed Ali, just never followed by Durmaz). Most likely, their parents have never even heard of them. Zack Page has gone the distance with Johnathon Banks, Guillermo Jones, Mike Perez x2, Kubrat Pulev, Seth Mitchell, Yoan Pablo Hernandez, Juan Carlos Gomez, Manuel Charr, Tyson Fury, Edmund Gerber, Francesco Pianeta, etc. Lenroy Thomas has never demonstrated durability like that -- he got knocked out in almost all of his losses, including against Arron Lyons. Lewison also has no great demonstrations of durability, other than being stopped in 10 rounds against Whyte. Between Palmer and Jovic, the only time they've ever demonstrated durability was lasting 6 rounds against a clubfighter, and getting stopped in 7 rounds by another clubfighter. These are the type of fighters that Ortiz, Solis, Pulev, and Biggs would've steamrolled in 1 round, even if it was scheduled for 12 rounds and the Commonwealth title was on the line.

Mike Perkins was pretty inconsistent, but he's beaten 3 opponents who were better than or equal to Lewison / Lenroy, with the greatest of those wins coming immediately before the Biggs fight.

So, the point is, you are dazzled by padded records, and can't tell whether those wins are coming against good or bad opponents, and you seem to think a lack of losses implies that the fighter is good, when it actually means that they merely haven't been matched against the kind of opposition that Page / Oloukun / Releford have been matched against.

I assure you, I know the difference between the fighters with winning/padded records as opposed to those like Zack Page, Kendrick Releford, "Smokin'" Mike Perkins etc.. Believe it or not, a part of my job as a promoter's assistant was to help in matchmaking back when I was involved in the game. So, I get what you're saying. Perhaps I haven't articulated it well enough. So, Peace, man. I get where you're coming from.
I'll give you that Joyce's two 8 rounders were against garbage opponents but IMO Lewison & Thomas were about as good as could be expected for a fighter who was contesting in his first four pro fights. Do I think that he should step things up against some more seasoned, useful journeyman? Of course, I do. And, as an interested party, I'd like to see him keep busy with those types of fighters.
Joyce's people have been trying to get him in with a fringe-contender like Chisora and/or a contender like "Big Baby" Miller but so far have been unable to. So, what I'd like to see in the interim is for him to face the likes of a Joey Dawejko, a Christian Hammer or a Rudenko. Men that might extend him a few quality rounds or offer a gauge of where he's at in his abilities. Obviously, that's not going to happen June 15 as it's a commonwealth title defense vs TBA but after that I'd like to see someone sturdier brought in.
Since you clearly have a very good understanding of how things work & who's who in the division who would you suggest for his people to bring in next?

[Lackeos]

Actually, you're mistaken, my friend.
Let's start with Tyrell Biggs who began his career in a 6 round bout with Mike Evans ( 3-1-1 ). He followed that with three more 6 round bouts against the trio of Mike Perkins ( 16-7-1 ), Grady Daniels ( 9-19 ) & Eddie Richardson ( 9-1 ).
Kubret Pulev began his career in a 4 rounder vs one, Florian Bench ( 2-3 ), a 4 rounder vs Serdar Uysal ( 9-18-2 ), a 6 vs Gbenga Oluokun ( 17-2 ) & another 6 vs Zack Page ( 19-25-2 ).
Luis Ortiz got his start in a 4 rounder vs Lamar Davis ( 4-1 ), a 6 rounder vs Charles Davis ( 19-19-2 ), stepped up to an 8 vs Kendrick Releford ( 22-13-2 ) & had another 8 vs Zack Page ( 21-30-2 ).
And, lastly, Odlanier Solis began his career in a 4 rounder vs Andreas Sidon ( 32-7 ), a 4 vs Olek Mazikin ( 10-1 ), a 4 vs Aldo Colliander ( 12-1 ) & a 6 vs Marcus McGee ( 19-13 ).

Now contrast those records against Joe Joyce's record who began his career in a scheduled 10 rounder vs Ian Lewison ( 12-3-1 ), an 8 vs Rudolf Jozic ( 4-1 ), an 8 vs Donnie Palmer ( 9-1-1 ) & a 12 round commonwealth title fight vs Lenroy Thomas ( 22-4-1 ).
Although Solis & Ortiz faced opposition that was similar in quality ( or better if one cares to argue the point ) to Joyce's opposition they were both fighting prelim bouts scheduled for 4 & 6 rounds while Joyce has been fighting main event quality bouts of 10 & 12 rounds & winning respected regional titles. So, I'd say that four bouts Joyce has the more advanced career at this point.

And if Joyce was fighting a durable journeyman equivalent to Zack Page and Kendrick Releford, then those fights scheduled for 8 rounds would've actually lasted 8 rounds. Instead, he was fighting bums in what turned out to actually be 1-rounders and 2-rounders. I'm not sure why you think it's relevant how many rounds the fight was scheduled for if anyone could see that it wasn't going to actually last more than 2.

Palmer, Jovic, Thomas, and Lewison have never lasted the distance against anyone decent (other than Derrick Rossy 1 time). Page has lasted the distance against countless good opponents, and he also has several wins that equal or surpass Lewison's only decent win. Releford has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only decent win. Oloukun has also gone the distance against plenty of good opponents, and also has wins that surpass Lewison's only good win. Palmer and Jozic don't have any wins over anyone except corpses.

Honestly, your entire post seems to imply that you judge opposition based on their win percentage, but you can't actually surmise anything about how good a fighter is that way. You're seriously comparing fighters like Jozic, who have never beaten anyone with a pulse, to fighters like Zack Page, who has beaten Jeremy Bates, Lou Del Valle, Cisse Salif, Eugene Hill, Kassim Howard, Hector Ferreyro, Sabastien Koeber, Kevin McBride; all of whom, I assure you, are light years ahead of the corpses Jovic beat -- Branislav Plavsic, Sinan Baran, Muhammed Ali Durmaz, and Zoran Grbic. Zack Page's wins are names I've read 200 times each, Jovic's wins are names that literally no one on the entire forum has ever read (granted, I've heard of Muhammed Ali, just never followed by Durmaz). Most likely, their parents have never even heard of them. Zack Page has gone the distance with Johnathon Banks, Guillermo Jones, Mike Perez x2, Kubrat Pulev, Seth Mitchell, Yoan Pablo Hernandez, Juan Carlos Gomez, Manuel Charr, Tyson Fury, Edmund Gerber, Francesco Pianeta, etc. Lenroy Thomas has never demonstrated durability like that -- he got knocked out in almost all of his losses, including against Arron Lyons. Lewison also has no great demonstrations of durability, other than being stopped in 10 rounds against Whyte. Between Palmer and Jovic, the only time they've ever demonstrated durability was lasting 6 rounds against a clubfighter, and getting stopped in 7 rounds by another clubfighter. These are the type of fighters that Ortiz, Solis, Pulev, and Biggs would've steamrolled in 1 round, even if it was scheduled for 12 rounds and the Commonwealth title was on the line.

Mike Perkins was pretty inconsistent, but he's beaten 3 opponents who were better than or equal to Lewison / Lenroy, with the greatest of those wins coming immediately before the Biggs fight.

So, the point is, you are dazzled by padded records, and can't tell whether those wins are coming against good or bad opponents, and you seem to think a lack of losses implies that the fighter is good, when it actually means that they merely haven't been matched against the kind of opposition that Page / Oloukun / Releford have been matched against.

I assure you, I know the difference between the fighters with winning/padded records as opposed to those like Zack Page, Kendrick Releford, "Smokin'" Mike Perkins etc.. Believe it or not, a part of my job as a promoter's assistant was to help in matchmaking back when I was involved in the game. So, I get what you're saying. Perhaps I haven't articulated it well enough. So, Peace, man. I get where you're coming from.
I'll give you that Joyce's two 8 rounders were against garbage opponents but IMO Lewison & Thomas were about as good as could be expected for a fighter who was contesting in his first four pro fights. Do I think that he should step things up against some more seasoned, useful journeyman? Of course, I do. And, as an interested party, I'd like to see him keep busy with those types of fighters.
Joyce's people have been trying to get him in with a fringe-contender like Chisora and/or a contender like "Big Baby" Miller but so far have been unable to. So, what I'd like to see in the interim is for him to face the likes of a Joey Dawejko, a Christian Hammer or a Rudenko. Men that might extend him a few quality rounds or offer a gauge of where he's at in his abilities. Obviously, that's not going to happen June 15 as it's a commonwealth title defense vs TBA but after that I'd like to see someone sturdier brought in.
Since you clearly have a very good understanding of how things work & who's who in the division who would you suggest for his people to bring in next?

I wouldn't dispute that Rudenko and Dawejko are reasonable match-ups for him right now-ish. I wouldn't match him with Hammer, as I consider Hammer to be very underrated (and tough to put away). If I were managing Joyce, I'd probably make him fight about once every 6-8 weeks (to quickly increase his win column), step up his competition aggressively once (because he can probably handle it), and then step-up his competition slowly after that (because 6-8 weeks isn't a long time to recover if you're fighting real opponents). Could be something like Ustinov, rest 4 weeks, fight some bum, rest 4 weeks, fight Price, wait 6 weeks, fight Helenius, wait 8 weeks, fight a bum, wait 3 weeks, fight Szpilka, wait 7 weeks, fight David Allen (easy British opponent, not quite a bum), wait 4 weeks, fight Chisora. That would get him 8 wins and a top 15 ranking (and a few all-British fights with big paydays) in 8 months. There are probably some who think Joyce could breeze through a path like that, but I'm questioning whether it's too hectic.

[sweetviolenturge]

David Allen would be a good fighter to step in with Joyce on June 15 but I see he just fought a couple of weeks ago & may have suffered a cut eye so he may be out, which is too bad. After that, barring the Chisora or Miller being made, I'd like to see someone like a Spiljka who would be another good gauge to build toward him facing a legit contender.

[candyslim]

Yeah, it was insane how Leon Spinks was fighting better opponents at age 23 than Joe Joyce is fighting at age 32. You could say it's amazing that a 32-year-old has already progressed to fighting opponents as good as Lenroy Thomas. That is way better than someone like Artur Szpilka, Andy Ruiz Jr, or Tom Schwarz; who were fighting opponents of that caliber when they were 23. Or Hughie Fury, beating Rudenko when he was 20. Or Agit Kabayel, beating way better opposition at age 25. So yeah, you could say Joe Joyce is a rare breed. If Joyce has already progressed this far by age 32, imagine how good he'll be when he's 50!

Be fair he's just turned pro after an extensive amateur career. He won the commonwealth title in his fourth fight having tried to land Chisora. Now he's gunning for Miller.

I don't know if you were trying to be funny because you are normally a good poster with a history of sensible contributions, but if you weren't then I'd suggest saving your criticism for those who deserve it, such as Trevor Bryan, LaRon Mitchell, Michael Wallisch, Bogdan Dinu or even Andy Ruiz Jnr. for example.

You could call this criticism, but if you look at it in-context, you'll see what I'm trying to say. The original poster is claiming that Joe Joyce's progress is fast-tracked in a way that is comparable to Leon Spinks. I don't believe that this is even a remotely accurate comparison. After Joyce won a European bronze medal, he stayed in the amateurs and kept winning medals for 3 more years, then competed in a dozen all-but-entirely-professional boxing matches, and now after 4 additional pro matches, is still not fighting opponents as good as Spinks's fourth opponent -- Pedro Agosto. Spinks was being fast-tracked at age 23, Joyce's career progress by age 32 is not fast. Joyce is 32, and he's still playing in the kiddie pool (in terms of professional matchmaking), just as he was the old guy playing in the kiddie pool when he was an amateur. The fighters I listed are almost a decade younger and are fighting in the deep end of the professional pool. In this particular case, I'm not criticizing Joyce, I'm criticizing the idea that he's the most fast-tracked heavyweight in several decades.

However, I've seen this kind of hype before, with David Price. Price won an Olympic bronze medal, but he did so at a relatively advanced age. A lot of people were hyping him to be the next conqueror of the heavyweight division, and claimed that Tyson Fury would be forever afraid to fight him, and never able to beat him. I always argued that by the time Fury reached his prime, he would far surpass Price, which these people did not accept. Amateur accomplishments are increasingly less meaningful at the later age that you earn them, and should not be treated as equally important indicators of potential without regard to age. Price was only 25 (still old to be competing in the amateurs), Joyce was much older when he earned silver. I believe that Joyce's hype will ultimately prove to be unjustified in the same way that Price's hype was, because they are both largely based on the false premise that amateur accomplishment is a predictor of professional success, regardless of how much age and experience advantage the competitor held over his opponents.

Certainly Spinks was moved very quickly, faster than Joyce when you factor in the age difference i.e. Joyce needs to move quick being an ambitious latecomer. No such pressure on Spinks and in retrospect, do we think it was a good thing to rush him like that?

Clearly there is no point Joyce taking his time fighting weak opposition but I can't really fault how he's been moved so far.

[candyslim]

David Allen would be a good fighter to step in with Joyce on June 15 but I see he just fought a couple of weeks ago & may have suffered a cut eye so he may be out, which is too bad. After that, barring the Chisora or Miller being made, I'd like to see someone like a Spiljka who would be another good gauge to build toward him facing a legit contender.

Szpilka is in decline but it wouldn't be a terrible idea. Allen and Thomas are on roughly the same level with Thomas having the edge. Given how Joyce swatted Thomas like an irritating blue-bottle, I don't see anything to be gained fighting 'The white rhino'.Besides, I like Dave Allen and I don't want him to take a pointless beating, which he would because he is too tough and brave for his own good.

[sweetviolenturge]

David Allen would be a good fighter to step in with Joyce on June 15 but I see he just fought a couple of weeks ago & may have suffered a cut eye so he may be out, which is too bad. After that, barring the Chisora or Miller being made, I'd like to see someone like a Spiljka who would be another good gauge to build toward him facing a legit contender.

Szpilka is in decline but it wouldn't be a terrible idea. Allen and Thomas are on roughly the same level with Thomas having the edge. Given how Joyce swatted Thomas like an irritating blue-bottle, I don't see anything to be gained fighting 'The white rhino'.Besides, I like Dave Allen and I don't want him to take a pointless beating, which he would because he is too tough and brave for his own good.

I've nothing against Dave Allen, I'm simply trying to come up with an idea of whom Joyce might be fighting in defense of his Commonwealth title come June 15. Ideally, I much prefer that he step up in competition to a level above Allen but with only two weeks to find an opponent & the constraint that it be someone from a Commonwealth country I doubt that it's a possibility.
Beyond the June 15 bout though I'm hoping for much bigger & better things, however.

[candyslim]

No I wasn't suggesting for one moment that your mention of Dave Allen was motivated by spite or cruelty.

Commonwealth title defense, eh? I wasn't sure he'd bother to defend it but if he did who would be elligible?

UK: H Fury, Whyte, Bellew, Chisora. Webb, Gorman, Dubois ... unlikely to be interested for one reason or another.
Allen, Sexton or Cornish might be but who'd want to see it? David Price might be up for his latest final throw of the dice.

NZ: Joe Parker? A risky fight for both but you never know. Ugonoh isn't a Kiwi but might qualify - I don't know if he is just Polish or whether he has joint nationality with the land of his fathers. Fa wouldn't want any part of Joe if he's got any sense. Nor Hemi Ahio.

Aussie: Lucas Browne has lost all credibility. Demsey McKean wouldn't be interested I don't suppose. Maybe the old guys Solomon Haumono or Alex Leapai ... FFS Slim will you listen to yourself... Browne lacks credibility? ... Like Leapai is loaded with it?

Canada: Again I wouldn't expect much interest from the likes of Miljas, Kean, Teslenko or even Rivas (probably ineligible anyway) who have eyes on bigger things, but I can imagine fighters like Carman, Bahoeuli, Braidwood being up for it.

South Africa: Ruann Visser. A possibility. I don't know if he'd fancy it.

Ireland: I doubt Kennedy or Sheehan would take it but Turner would fight anyone, he's a game little fokker.

Nigeria: Perhaps a big ask of Ajagba at this stage but Ehwarieme isn't a young'un and might fancy Joyce and the Commonwealth crown as an opportunity for some recognition and a decent ranking.

Other Commonwealth nations: No point in a Thomas re-match obviously. Martin Ilunga would probably fancy his chances but of course the DRC isn't a Commonwealth nation.

Anyone I've forgotten ?

[sweetviolenturge]

No I wasn't suggesting for one moment that your mention of Dave Allen was motivated by spite or cruelty.

Commonwealth title defense, eh? I wasn't sure he'd bother to defend it but if he did who would be elligible?

UK: H Fury, Whyte, Bellew, Chisora. Webb, Gorman, Dubois ... unlikely to be interested for one reason or another.
Allen, Sexton or Cornish might be but who'd want to see it? David Price might be up for his latest final throw of the dice.

NZ: Joe Parker? A risky fight for both but you never know. Ugonoh isn't a Kiwi but might qualify - I don't know if he is just Polish or whether he has joint nationality with the land of his fathers. Fa wouldn't want any part of Joe if he's got any sense. Nor Hemi Ahio.

Aussie: Lucas Browne has lost all credibility. Demsey McKean wouldn't be interested I don't suppose. Maybe the old guys Solomon Haumono or Alex Leapai ... FFS Slim will you listen to yourself... Browne lacks credibility? ... Like Leapai is loaded with it?

Canada: Again I wouldn't expect much interest from the likes of Miljas, Kean, Teslenko or even Rivas (probably ineligible anyway) who have eyes on bigger things, but I can imagine fighters like Carman, Bahoeuli, Braidwood being up for it.

South Africa: Ruann Visser. A possibility. I don't know if he'd fancy it.

Ireland: I doubt Kennedy or Sheehan would take it but Turner would fight anyone, he's a game little fokker.

Nigeria: Perhaps a big ask of Ajagba at this stage but Ehwarieme isn't a young'un and might fancy Joyce and the Commonwealth crown as an opportunity for some recognition and a decent ranking.

Other Commonwealth nations: No point in a Thomas re-match obviously. Martin Ilunga would probably fancy his chances but of course the DRC isn't a Commonwealth nation.

Anyone I've forgotten ?

Not at all, slim. I think you've thoroughly covered all the bases, my friend. If he's really going to defend the Commonwealth belt as stated then Joyce is going to have to choose one of those opponents that you've mentioned here. I imagine that if they don't know who it's going to be yet then they must be burning up the telephone lines & cell towers now as we speak trying to nail one of these men down. Of course, they're under no obligation to defend the Commonwealth crown if no one of suitable quality is available for June 15. There are any number of American & European journeyman that they could bring in for the date & then, they could defend the belt at another time.
Frankly, they might actually find a more durable opponent who will have the potential to provide Joyce with more quality rounds if they went that route.

[candyslim]

I think so too. If he's serious about wanting to fight Miller and I'm pretty sure he is, then he wants to crack the top 10 this year, in which case is he going to want to be bothering with the likes of David Price or Solomon Haumono?

It would be hard enough finding an elligible challenger who would (AAA) be willing to fight Joyce and (BBB) be likely to generate fan interest in watching it. Then if you factor in (CCC) that Joyce would have to consider the challenger as an opponent who will benefit/ advance his career, then you've got a tricky piece of matchmaking.

Maybe he'll decide whether to defend or vacate when the challenger gets nominated.

[joshj909]

Zimbabwean Elvis Moyo (8-5-2) has claimed he's been offered the fight for June 15th.

http://www.chronicle.co.zw/bomber-set-t ... in-london/

Step down from Thomas for me but staying active i guess

[Horse]

Zimbabwean Elvis Moyo (8-5-2) has claimed he's been offered the fight for June 15th.

http://www.chronicle.co.zw/bomber-set-t ... in-london/

Step down from Thomas for me but staying active i guess

Pretty lousy opponent.

[candyslim]

F-me ... What was I saying about whether he'd want to be bothering with David Price or Solomon Haumono?

Elvis Moyo ??? ... He'd get a better workout from Costello ... or a comparable one from Presley

[African Monkey]

Oh well pretty underwhelming but at least he's active and tbh, no-one special was ever gonna take this fight on such short notice.

[joshj909]

Following the fight we're probably in the same position as we are now. Who's next?

I guess the only positive could be that it opens the doors to the Kean/Braidwood winner if Joyce stays at Commonwealth level. Other than that there's no developments.

[Lennox]

Zimbabwean Elvis Moyo (8-5-2) has claimed he's been offered the fight for June 15th.

http://www.chronicle.co.zw/bomber-set-t ... in-london/

Step down from Thomas for me but staying active i guess

Pretty lousy opponent.

He is pretty good actually currently ranked 109 (PBO)

[Horse]

He is pretty good actually currently ranked 109 (PBO)

That's good?

[Lennox]

He is pretty good actually currently ranked 109 (PBO)

That's good?

Yes in the scheme of things 109 world translates top 10 of the Commonwealth. He is better than lousy, though we obviously know the winner.
Another point is promoters have budgets and best opponents cost more, everyones price is doubled for JJ.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Can't see joyce going far, he's got great stamina, but his defence is poor, and he isn't very quick either, especially his feet.

He will get a certain distance with workrate, because he has excellent stamina for a big man, but his lack of serious firepower really limits how far he can go.

[Horse]

Yes in the scheme of things 109 world translates top 10 of the Commonwealth. He is better than lousy, though we obviously know the winner.
Another point is promoters have budgets and best opponents cost more, everyones price is doubled for JJ.

I'm pretty sure that he's nowhere near being in the top 10 in the Commonwealth.

[Horse]

Can't see joyce going far, he's got great stamina, but his defence is poor, and he isn't very quick either, especially his feet.

He will get a certain distance with workrate, because he has excellent stamina for a big man, but his lack of serious firepower really limits how far he can go.

He seems to hit pretty hard.

[candyslim]

The ranking is pretty meaningless, I'd rather go by his record, and what I will say for him is he appears to be much improved. He has won his last five including a first round win over familiar name, Maksim Pedyura. He has won and drawn with Osborne Machimana who might be the worst South African Heavyweight Champion in living memory (mine anyway), but he was South African Champion nevertheless, and very recently.

He also went ten rounds with Joseph Chingangu, a man so good he was immortalized in song by the boy-scout movement ... Chingangu, Chingangu (sorry that was a particularly bad joke, I'm truly penitent, honest )

Seriously, he's by no means awful by African standards (Top 4 or 5 excluded from this description, African standards) but the difference in quality between Knife Didier for example, and Joe Joyce is a vast chasm.

I may have been too dismissive of Moyo and no doubt disrespectful, but there is no getting away from it, this will be an ugly mismatch at best.

[candyslim]

He is pretty good actually currently ranked 109 (PBO)

That's good?

Yes in the scheme of things 109 world translates top 10 of the Commonwealth. He is better than lousy, though we obviously know the winner.
Another point is promoters have budgets and best opponents cost more, everyones price is doubled for JJ.

Good point about the finances Lennox, but I could name thirty heavies who qualify as commonwealth fighters who I would expect to beat Moyo. Most of them I mentioned on this page and even then I forgot Carlos Takam was elligible, and I'm sure I forgot a few others as well.

The point being he's nowhere near the top 10 even if he could beat 4 or 5 on my list.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Can't see joyce going far, he's got great stamina, but his defence is poor, and he isn't very quick either, especially his feet.

He will get a certain distance with workrate, because he has excellent stamina for a big man, but his lack of serious firepower really limits how far he can go.

He seems to hit pretty hard.

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

[Horse]

Against very low level oppisition. Prior to his last fight he wasnt considered a puncher and hes not demonstrated that he will have the power to trouble higher level operators, especially given how slow he is.

We'll see.

I don't think he should be written off as a weak puncher yet though.