Is Usyk the best CW of all time ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:44

It is time for this question. What do you think ?

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:46

why not at least wait till after the fight tomorrow ?

no, holyfield was. though usyk if he wins tomorrow i can see at #2

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:49

For me he's already number 2 after Evander and he'll remain there in any case tomorrow, win in his trademark fashion or lose by KO in the 1st round.

Mexi-Box · Post by **Mexi-Box** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:54

jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:46 why not at least wait till after the fight tomorrow ?

no, holyfield was. though usyk if he wins tomorrow i can see at #2

What does beating Bellew have to do with this? Usyk beat Briedis who is the second best at CW currently. He's arguably the best at CW now.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:57

if usyk loses i think it defo hurts his standing . and in terms of resume, a win at least adds depth and takes him to 7-0 in title fights, with a win over another guy whose been a cw champ

tomorrow prob his last cw fight, makes more sense to evaluate after

Mexi-Box · Post by **Mexi-Box** » 09 Nov 2018, 14:59

jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:57 if usyk loses i think it defo hurts his standing . and in terms of resume, a win at least adds depth

tomorrow prob his last cw fight, makes more sense to evaluate after

Well, that is fair, but damn, I don't see Bellew winning. It'd be devastating for his legacy if Usyk loses.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 09 Nov 2018, 15:00

jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:57 if usyk loses i think it defo hurts his standing . and in terms of resume, a win at least adds depth

tomorrow prob his last cw fight, makes more sense to evaluate after

It defo hurts, but still he won't be less, than #2. Cause who'll be instead? Haye, who wasn't that impressive overall and was KOed by Thompson? Or De Leon, who was inconsistent? No way.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 09 Nov 2018, 17:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:49 For me he's already number 2 after Evander and he'll remain there in any case tomorrow, win in his trademark fashion or lose by KO in the 1st round.

He’s already #2. He’s beat Briedis and Gassiev and before that arguable #1 Glowacki. He just hasn’t fought Lebedev but he’s not at his prime anymore.

He won a CW world title quicker than Holyfield. Had 3 defences then became Undisputed within 2 more fights.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 09 Nov 2018, 17:20

Beating Bellow with conviction would move him closer to Evander, but still number 2 all time. Real Deal is a hard ceiling to crack. Usyk still has time to become number one but it's hard for me to fathom how he'll do that.

Onetimeonly · Post by **Onetimeonly** » 09 Nov 2018, 17:22

Definitely no at the moment. Many of his victories have the potential to be even better when all is said and done.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 09 Nov 2018, 17:37

In addition, I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Mairis Briedis before another year or two goes by.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 09 Nov 2018, 19:51

oogiebe wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 17:37 In addition, I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Mairis Briedis before another year or two goes by.

Who knows. They might rematch at HW in a few years.

dagilechia · Post by **dagilechia** » 09 Nov 2018, 19:58

i want to see Usyk at HW next. Usyk vs Briedis was a very good fight but i don't want a rematch because of a simple reason - it is obvious that Usyk will win again, i want to see him tested at HW.

Deleted_Scenes · Post by **Deleted_Scenes** » 09 Nov 2018, 20:28

jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:46 no, holyfield was. though usyk if he wins tomorrow i can see at #2

The difference between Usyk and Holyfield, for me, is that as far as we know, Usyk is clean. Holyfield has certainly done more (up to now - Usyk's career isn't over), but we don't really know which of his fights he had 'extra help'.

1. Holyfield (*)
2. Usyk

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 09 Nov 2018, 20:52

Holyfield will always be #1.

Quawi was an exceptional fighter for the still very green Holyfield to beat.

Very impressive. Even Usyk beating a Breidis or Gassiev is not at that level of accomplishment.

Usyk should have his way with Bellew tomorrow, in a one sided rout.

Would have loved to see him in there will Holyfield.

My money would be on Evander.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 09 Nov 2018, 21:07

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 20:28
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:46 no, holyfield was. though usyk if he wins tomorrow i can see at #2
The difference between Usyk and Holyfield, for me, is that as far as we know, Usyk is clean. Holyfield has certainly done more (up to now - Usyk's career isn't over), but we don't really know which of his fights he had 'extra help'.

1. Holyfield (*)
2. Usyk

Holufield passed his ped tests. But we know he was guilty as hell.
Any fighter can pass the tests. It doesn't make them innocent. Just not caught

squiggy · Post by **squiggy** » 09 Nov 2018, 22:09

If he dispenses with Bellew like he should, it'll be all but a tossup between their resumes at cruiser.

Best Coast · Post by **Best Coast** » 09 Nov 2018, 23:07

tiny_acres wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 21:07
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 20:28
jamamb wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:46 no, holyfield was. though usyk if he wins tomorrow i can see at #2
The difference between Usyk and Holyfield, for me, is that as far as we know, Usyk is clean. Holyfield has certainly done more (up to now - Usyk's career isn't over), but we don't really know which of his fights he had 'extra help'.

1. Holyfield (*)
2. Usyk
Holufield passed his ped tests. But we know he was guilty as hell.
Any fighter can pass the tests. It doesn't make them innocent. Just not caught

Holyfield's juicing was most likely confined to his HW days. Very unlikely he was juicing as a cruiser, which had a limit of only 190 pounds back then.

Best Coast · Post by **Best Coast** » 09 Nov 2018, 23:20

ValMar wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 14:44 It is time for this question. What do you think ?

Does a moment ever go by in your boxing world when it is NOT time for this question?

He's only had 15 pro fights and has had phenomenal success but his pro career has barely begun. His 2 career-defining wins are Gassiev and Briedis and we have NO idea if either of those guys will make the Hall of Fame (neither would have even a remote chance at the HOF if they retired today, though Usyk probably would have a solid shot if he had to hang up the gloves today).

Even Tony Bellew, despite having a reason to boost his legacy, says Usyk is the best cruiserweight SINCE Evander Holyfield.
https://ringside24.com/en/28894-bellew- ... -holyfield

Bellew called Usyk the greatest cruiserweight since Holyfield

It was the first time the granite-chinned Hall-of-Famer had ever been stopped.

Mexi-Box · Post by **Mexi-Box** » 10 Nov 2018, 02:15

Best Coast wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 23:07
tiny_acres wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 21:07
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑09 Nov 2018, 20:28

The difference between Usyk and Holyfield, for me, is that as far as we know, Usyk is clean. Holyfield has certainly done more (up to now - Usyk's career isn't over), but we don't really know which of his fights he had 'extra help'.

1. Holyfield (*)
2. Usyk
Holufield passed his ped tests. But we know he was guilty as hell.
Any fighter can pass the tests. It doesn't make them innocent. Just not caught
Holyfield's juicing was most likely confined to his HW days. Very unlikely he was juicing as a cruiser, which had a limit of only 190 pounds back then.

Not really.

Mexi-Box · Post by **Mexi-Box** » 10 Nov 2018, 02:28

By the way, I guess Usyk's win over Briedis will grow exponentially if he wins the season 2 tournament.

squiggy · Post by **squiggy** » 10 Nov 2018, 02:30

How many cruiserweight fights do you want, though, before you'll start to rate the body of work? Evander only fought at cruiserweight 15 times, and his career there is the gold standard.
I think the wins over Gassiev and Breidis can only gain value over time. There didn't happen to be a Qawi on the scene for Usyk to fight, but if there were it stands to reason he'd be fighting him, and probably in his own back yard. As it is, having already beaten Glowacki, Huck, Gassiev and Breidis is a hell of a start.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 10 Nov 2018, 02:32

ya i agree, its not the number of fights thats really a big deal, hes had about as many at cruiser as holys had and has been fighting at top level since single digit fights.

but still better to rate him after the bellew fight, obviously if he doesnt win it makes a difference. and if he does win, well its not some amazing win but its another pretty solid win over a former champ and also adds some extra depth to his cw resume. plus it further builds his already excellent road warrior credentials.

i think he will move to hw after that , so after tommorrow we could well have his entire completed cw career to judge.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Nov 2018, 04:32

Are people wanting to bring up Holyfield's PED past when athletes across the board from the former Soviet Union keep getting popped for PED's right and left? It wouldn't surprise me that the 15-0 Usyk is on something considering how fast he's torn through the division.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 10 Nov 2018, 04:44

Everyone on the higher level in sports drink some juices.