Did Tyson duck Holyfield?

Kid Skid · Post by **Kid Skid** » 13 May 2006, 19:32

Years ago i remember reading a Lou Duva interview that accused the Tyson camp of dodging a Holyfield fight. This was around 88 or 89.
At the time Tyson looked like a divine boxing god, absolutely unbeatable. I was just sure Evander would be pulp at the hands of Iron Mike.

After seeing their matches in the 90's, i remembered that article. Granted, these men were not the same fighters they were in the late 80's, but just maybe the Tyson camp did'nt want to tangle with Holyfield.

Oh, by the way I'm the new kid on the block and i brought beer.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 13 May 2006, 19:50

I think it's a highly likely possibility. And the beer idea is...

http://www.retroshirtz.de/neu/images/db ... 5525_s.jpg

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 13 May 2006, 21:28

dont get discouraged, this thread should undoubtedly go 5+ pages!

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 16 May 2006, 02:29

..well, he didn't duck him enough in their first fight.....and didn't even try in their second one...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 May 2006, 09:58

Well Jaclem has the fight scenario covered, For the "pre fight" aspect I'll simply say yes, Tyson ducked Holyfield for reasons that were revealed when they finally did fight. Holyfield had the style and the heart to beat him. First time, Every time.

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 16 May 2006, 10:38

wasn't Tyson suppose to fight him after Douglas?.. Holy was a cruiser till the 88' .. don't think Tyson ducked him. Mike was gigant in these heroic times .so a cruiser with balloon piceps woudln't have made very historic defence.

Granted, these men were not the same fighters they were in the late 80's

there are some who beleve that Tyson vs Holy I was the best performance by Holyfiled ever ever ever.

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 16 May 2006, 10:53

I don't think Tyson was ducking Holyfield, his management was just holding out to make it a bigger fight. I do think that Holyfield would have beaten him however.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 May 2006, 14:34

wouter wrote:I don't think Tyson was ducking Holyfield, his management was just holding out to make it a bigger fight. I do think that Holyfield would have beaten him however.

Wouter I think your right, due to the timing Tyson never really had the opportunity to duck Holyfield. My excuse? My calendar fell off my desk.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 16 May 2006, 14:41

cultus wrote:wasn't Tyson suppose to fight him after Douglas?.. Holy was a cruiser till the 88' .. don't think Tyson ducked him. Mike was gigant in these heroic times .so a cruiser with balloon piceps woudln't have made very historic defence.

Granted, these men were not the same fighters they were in the late 80's
there are some who beleve that Tyson vs Holy I was the best performance by Holyfiled ever ever ever.

If you look at a prime Holyfield vs Dokes, Holyfield-Douglas, Holyfield-Cooper etc. you can see that the Evander who fought Tyson in 96 was already past his prime and showing signs of age. But for a 34 year old, he could still kick major ass.

As to the topic, I don't believe Tyson ducked Holyfield. Evander hadn't established himself among the HWs yet in 1988-89. By 1991 the match was already signed and posters and T-shirts for a Tyson-Holyfield showdown were even made. But then Tyson went to jail and killed the fight.

If it had gone down, I think Holyfield would've knocked out Tyson by the 8th round

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 16 May 2006, 15:00

dempseyfire wrote:
cultus wrote:wasn't Tyson suppose to fight him after Douglas?.. Holy was a cruiser till the 88' .. don't think Tyson ducked him. Mike was gigant in these heroic times .so a cruiser with balloon piceps woudln't have made very historic defence.

Granted, these men were not the same fighters they were in the late 80's
there are some who beleve that Tyson vs Holy I was the best performance by Holyfiled ever ever ever.
If you look at a prime Holyfield vs Dokes, Holyfield-Douglas, Holyfield-Cooper etc. you can see that the Evander who fought Tyson in 96 was already past his prime and showing signs of age. But for a 34 year old, he could still kick major ass.

As to the topic, I don't believe Tyson ducked Holyfield. Evander hadn't established himself among the HWs yet in 1988-89. By 1991 the match was already signed and posters and T-shirts for a Tyson-Holyfield showdown were even made. But then Tyson went to jail and killed the fight.

If it had gone down, I think Holyfield would've knocked out Tyson by the 8th round

should have added that I don't share the beleaf. Holyfield looked good cose Tyson looked bad and nobody really expeted much after the Bowe III.

the Mike who fought Razor would have been destroyed by prime Holy. but if they'd fought sooner.. say 88' .. I'd favor Mike.

shyguy · Post by **shyguy** » 16 May 2006, 20:32

before tyson left rooney and cayton in 88 , cayton was taling about possible matchups with bruno and holyfield . Tyson had no fear of holyfield he beat the crap out of holyfield when they were sparring in the amateurs.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 May 2006, 21:05

shyguy wrote:before tyson left rooney and cayton in 88 , cayton was taling about possible matchups with bruno and holyfield . Tyson had no fear of holyfield he beat the crap out of holyfield when they were sparring in the amateurs.

Is this fact or fiction? Regarding Tyson getting the better of Holy in sparring?

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 17 May 2006, 14:12

shyguy wrote:before tyson left rooney and cayton in 88 , cayton was taling about possible matchups with bruno and holyfield . Tyson had no fear of holyfield he beat the crap out of holyfield when they were sparring in the amateurs.

Complete BS! - They sparred and it became so heated they had to pull the two off each other. It was Tyson that wasn't used to that ...someone coming right back at him

There is the old true story when both Holy and Tyson were working in the same gym (hanging out together of sorts...within the same group) right around the Olympics 84........they used to all shoot pool...a group of boxers...and of course "winners stay"....well Tyson lost and didn't want to give up his cue.....and typically got his way.....Well Holyfield was next in line to play.....and Tyson huffed and puffed......and then smartly handed his pool cue over to Holyfield.

Nuff said. Tyson never wanted any part of Holyfield in the ring. Tyson was simply made to order for Holyfield.

With that being said....I still feel Tyson gets a bum wrap to some degree. He was one hell of a fighter and would have been champion in any era I believe.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 May 2006, 16:17

shyguy, I think meade has credibility on this issue, I have heard pretty much the same story from several sources.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 18 May 2006, 09:38

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was first talk about Tyson-Holyfield back in 1989, taking place after Tyson-Carl Williams. Evander became a HW in late 1989 (fighting Alex Stewart).

While we can only voice/type our views of what would have transpired, I do believe Tyson would have beaten Holyfield had they fought before Tyson incarcerated. I don't care what anybody says, when a fighter like Tyson was away for three years, there's no way he's ever going to the same fighter as he was years earlier.

Yes, Tyson skills had eroded even before he went to jail, he did not jab a great deal, combinations were not consistent, head-movement was the most noticeable for me.

They were definately scheduled to fight 8 Nov. 1991, but Tyson injured his ribs in training/sparring. Anyway, with an accusation of rape, trial etc haging over his head, I feel it was highly unlikely the fight would take place.

Looking back, it amazing how most people (myself included) favoured Tyson to beat Holyfield in Nov 1996. Tyson had not been active for FOUR YEARS! The fights he had when he got, were not of the calibre of Holyfield, that's for sure. On the other hand, Evander had been in tough, tough fights, citing the Bowe trilogy the most. He knew what to expect from Tyson and was prepared for it.

I'm not making excuses for Tyson, Holyfield beat him fair and sqaure, and I'm sure Mike would be the first to admit this.

IMO, make no mistake, Tyson would have beaten Holyfield back in the day! It would have been tough, but Mike would have prevailed.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 18 May 2006, 09:45

shyguy wrote:before tyson left rooney and cayton in 88 , cayton was taling about possible matchups with bruno and holyfield . Tyson had no fear of holyfield he beat the crap out of holyfield when they were sparring in the amateurs.

While I doubt Tyson beat the crap out of Holyfield, I've heard he did get the better of him when they sparred around the 84' Olympics.

I have footage of Tyson sparring Carl Williams back in 1983. Tyson was only 16/17 then, and for such a young age, you can see how talented he was. He was by no means the complete fighter, but the speed, power & the way he would listen to instruction and try to improve, it was all there.

Does anyone know more about Tyson-Lewis sparring & when was this, what happened?

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 18 May 2006, 10:24

Rocky Balboa wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was first talk about Tyson-Holyfield back in 1989, taking place after Tyson-Carl Williams. Evander became a HW in late 1989 (fighting Alex Stewart).

Holyfield was already a heavyweight around the time of the Tyson v. Spinks fight

Rocky Balboa wrote:They were definately scheduled to fight 8 Nov. 1991, but Tyson injured his ribs in training/sparring.

And guess which fighter was rumoured to be responsible for that....

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 May 2006, 04:31

I agree that Tyson was a formidable fighter who could have won the title in any era. I don't think he ducked Holyfield but I don't believe that he could have ever beaten him. I also think Holyfield was greater of the two.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 19 May 2006, 12:29

Ezzard wrote:I agree that Tyson was a formidable fighter who could have won the title in any era.

How? His "Peak" was short, and there's no way he beats many of the long reigning champs...

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 May 2006, 12:32

Tantum wrote:
Ezzard wrote:I agree that Tyson was a formidable fighter who could have won the title in any era.
How? His "Peak" was short, and there's no way he beats many of the long reigning champs...

I agree, that's why I said "could" instead of "would"

Professor X · Post by **Professor X** » 21 May 2006, 10:32

Meade is correct. Also, in the '84 olympic try-outs, remember, Holyfield was a lightheavyweight and Tyson was a heavyweight.

And I believe that when they finally fought in '96 Holyfield was 34 yrs old and Tyson was 30. Again, Holyfield spotted him a handicap. Maybe he should have also tied one arm behind his back...

Holyfield always beats Tyson: any time, any place, any where, any year, any how.

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 21 May 2006, 16:09

Professor X wrote:Meade is correct. Also, in the '84 olympic try-outs, remember, Holyfield was a lightheavyweight and Tyson was a heavyweight.

And I believe that when they finally fought in '96 Holyfield was 34 yrs old and Tyson was 30. Again, Holyfield spotted him a handicap. Maybe he should have also tied one arm behind his back...

Holyfield always beats Tyson: any time, any place, any where, any year, any how.

without headbutts Holy is like a cow without a cookie.. no motivation.

Mike beats him in 87'.

Professor X · Post by **Professor X** » 21 May 2006, 18:29

A cow without a cookie, hunh? Tyson has truly attracted the most idiotic fans in boxing history.

Are you that dense, cultus? Holyfield (then a lightheavyweight) slapped Tyson (then a heavyweight) around back in '84. Yes, Cus was still alive and kickin', too, Tyson fans. So in answer to the question: hell, yes, Tyson was scared of/avoiding Holyfield in '91 (postponements from Mikey)...and '96 (postponements frome Mikey)...and '97 (postponements from Mikey)...and today.

cultus · Post by **cultus** » 23 May 2006, 20:04

Professor X wrote: Are you that dense, cultus? Holyfield (then a lightheavyweight) slapped Tyson

that was a jocke mate.. relax.

slapped and all, is that a scientific fact or a deep analysis? I'v read that they had very intense sparring session and were really starting to fight before Rooney seperated them. I haven't heard anything about Holy beating him up.

And don't ever come to me with bullshit like "Tyson has truly attracted the most idiotic fans in boxing history" before looking in the mirror. Insulting is pointless don't you think?

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 03 Jan 2012, 11:28

Bump.

And I honestly don't think that Tyson ever ducked Holyfield... Tyson fought him twice when he was past his best.

Actually, the more I think of it Tyson did not duck anybody...

Did Tyson duck Holyfield?

Did Tyson duck Holyfield?

Re: Did Tyson duck Holyfield?