Playing the Devil's Advocate for the Great Mike McCallum?

[elmersalsa]

In a boxing video interview on YouTube there's a clip about the great Jamaican Body Snatcher Mike McCallum about talking to the interviewer that the Fab 4 of boxing of the 80s decade of Roberto Duran, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard BLATANTLY ducked him. He said that they didn't want any part of him.

Although McCallum, extremely and extraordinary good, never got the chance to exploit his talent against the Fab 4, he has some resentment.

With Marvelous, McCallum told him that getting respect from him was to fight each other. That's how he and Marvelous were able to eat. By Fighting each other. McCallum claimed that Hagler ducked him during the 1985 and 1986 years. Marvelous fought twice in two years, very uncharacteristically of him. By that time frame, he could have given The Body Snatcher a title shot. McCallum was already the WBA World Jr Middleweight Champion at that time frame.

With Hearns, Emmanuel Steward, manager and trainer of the two at the time, somehow maneuvered and had a multi million fight deal for Hearns to fight with Duran. McCallum was the #1 contender at the time for both boxing bodies. Duran, the WBA champion, agreed to fight Hearns. McCallum later won the vacant title by Duran against an unheralded Sean Mannion on points. McCallum wanted Duran. He felt betrayed by Steward and left The Kronk Boxing Team and joined legendary trainers Lou Duva and George Benton. In two of his title defenses, he magnificently dismantled Milton McCrory and David Braxton in breathtaking performances by knockout. He asked Emmanuel for a Hearns fight, his most notable superstar. Steward gave him a picture of Hearns and that was it. McCallum also claimed that in sparring sessions with Hearns, he used to beat him most of the time.

With Duran, McCallum was the #1 contender. McCallum told the interviewer that Duran gave up his crown to fight Hearns instead of fighting him. He said that Duran told him he was The Devil, that's why he didn't want to defend his crown against him. McCallum was a superb fighter. No doubt about it. A crafty and complete technician with awesome stamina.

With Sugar Ray, McCallum said that Sugar Ray ducked him as well back in 1987. McCallum asked him directly for a fight and Leonard simply said "You already beat my brother Roger in the amateurs in 1977". McCallum was surprised and amused by Sugar Ray's response.

What do you think of that? Here's one of boxing's greatest fighters saying that the Fab 4 didn't want any part of him.

Your thoughts. And anybody could be The Devil's advocate for McCallum and tell the reason why McCallum feels this way until this day.

[Noxy]

Is McCallum not a bit younger than the Fab Four? He wasn't a big enough name by 1987 to fight Hagler. He could have fought the other three but he was probably too high risk for not enough reward. Maybe he could have been marketed better.

[Onetimeonly]

[margaret thatcher]

Disgusting that the great man places only at 91 all-time

[elmersalsa]

Disgusting that the great man places only at 91 all-time

There are 90 better fighters than he, in my opinion. McCallum didn't had the fights. Were the Fab 4 ducking him?

[Onetimeonly]

Nope, not even a little bit. I mean Duran didn't face an unknown McCallum to instead fight hearns. That's ducking a common cold to get cancer. Pretty hilarious that you're starting separate threads for the same guys up for the month on the list.

[margaret thatcher]

Disgusting that the great man places only at 91 all-time

There are 90 better fighters than he, in my opinion. McCallum didn't had the fights. Were the Fab 4 ducking him?

Stop hating on him

[elmersalsa]

There are 90 better fighters than he, in my opinion. McCallum didn't had the fights. Were the Fab 4 ducking him?

Stop hating on him

I ain't hating on nobody.

[littlepug]

McCallum was a great fighter simple as that, his fundamentals were rock solid, he could box, punch, fight and was a fantastic defensive boxer with a top level ring IQ and a solid chin, he understood the mechanics of boxing very well and was always composed, he didn’t get the big sexy fights but took the fights that not everyone would have wanted like Graham, Collins, Watson, Kalambay, Mcrory, Curry, Jackson and Toney, that’s some list, I rate Toney high and Mike fought on equal terms with him when he was getting on in age, couldn’t rule him out against any of the fab4

[elmersalsa]

McCallum was a great fighter simple as that, his fundamentals were rock solid, he could box, punch, fight and was a fantastic defensive boxer with a top level ring IQ and a solid chin, he understood the mechanics of boxing very well and was always composed, he didn’t get the big sexy fights but took the fights that not everyone would have wanted like Graham, Collins, Watson, Kalambay, Mcrory, Curry, Jackson and Toney, that’s some list, I rate Toney high and Mike fought on equal terms with him when he was getting on in age, couldn’t rule him out against any of the fab4

Fantastic post!

[Noxy]

Would you back him against any of the fab 4 apart from Duran though? I wouldn’t

[Cojimar 1946]

I think Hearns should have fought him at least. Had Hearns won it would have been among his best wins given he tended to lose his biggest fights.

[Onetimeonly]

Nope, not even a little bit. I mean Duran didn't face an unknown McCallum to instead fight hearns. That's ducking a common cold to get cancer. Pretty hilarious that you're starting separate threads for the same guys up for the month on the list.

So why didn't Hearns fight him? Had Hearns won it would have been among his best wins given he tended to lose his biggest fights.

I should think it would have been by far Hearns best win at 154 or 160.

He fought Duran and hagler instead. Nobody knew who McCallum was. You're welcome, troll.

[Cojimar 1946]

So why didn't Hearns fight him? Had Hearns won it would have been among his best wins given he tended to lose his biggest fights.

I should think it would have been by far Hearns best win at 154 or 160.

He fought Duran and hagler instead. Nobody knew who McCallum was. You're welcome, troll.

And Hagler knocked him out. How does that help him legacy wise? Aren't guys judged by the fights they win?

Also no fight with Michael Nunn, but let me guess, nobody knew who Michael Nunn was.

if Hearns found time to fight guys like Mark Medal and Doug DeWitt it stands to reason he could have fought Mike McCallum.

[littlepug]

Would you back him against any of the fab 4 apart from Duran though? I wouldn’t

I certainly wouldn’t rule him out, Hagler wouldn’t break him down, he would stay with Hagler all night long, Leonard and Hearns both had speed over Mike but top fighters aren’t overawed by speed, you look for the gaps, look for patterns, set traps and work the body, McCallum could do all that, I also think he’d beat Duran at a canter, his lack of flash can’t be confused with lack of ability, he was always mentally on point and can’t ever remember him being flustered

[Cojimar 1946]

To put things in historical perspective:

In the 1940s alone Archie Moore fought Lloyd Marshall, Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, Jack Chase, Charley Burley, Ezzard Charles and Jimmy Bivins among other dangerous fighters.

And that's just from 1942 to 1949.

You really think expecting Hearns to fight McCallum is asking too much of him? Compared to who guys like Moore fought?

It would be the equivalent of Hearns also fighting Michael Nunn, Sumbu Kalambay, Mike McCallum, Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, and James Toney or something of that nature.

[Ambling Alp II]

How do we know that Hearn's ducked McCallum? For all we know it was the other way around. Or more likely, it just didn't happen.

[Cojimar 1946]

How do we know that Hearn's ducked McCallum? For all we know it was the other way around. Or more likely, it just didn't happen.

I don't know if he did, but I don't understand why fans are seemingly willing to give fighters passes for not fighting the competition available in their own eras. It's not like its impossible.

Archie Moore and Emile Griffith are proof you can clean out your era if you want to.

[Onetimeonly]

How do we know that Hearn's ducked McCallum? For all we know it was the other way around. Or more likely, it just didn't happen.

Well, Leonard, hagler, hearns and Duran were never known for seeking or accepting challenges.

[elmersalsa]

Would you back him against any of the fab 4 apart from Duran though? I wouldn’t

I certainly wouldn’t rule him out, Hagler wouldn’t break him down, he would stay with Hagler all night long, Leonard and Hearns both had speed over Mike but top fighters aren’t overawed by speed, you look for the gaps, look for patterns, set traps and work the body, McCallum could do all that, I also think he’d beat Duran at a canter, his lack of flash can’t be confused with lack of ability, he was always mentally on point and can’t ever remember him being flustered

Spot on. The Body Snatcher was not as flashy nor as exciting as the Fab 4, but he could do everything basic and did it right. He was all by the fundamentals. He was like the Tim Duncan of the NBA. Nothing flashy, but effective.

[elmersalsa]

Playing the Devil's Advocate here, Marvelous after stopping The Hitman in that unforgettable night of April 15, 1985 in Vegas didn't fight for the rest of that year. Then, came John "The Beast" Mugabi of Uganda and challenged Marvelous for the Middleweight crown in March, 1986. Marvelous won by knockout in 11. After the Mugabi fight, Marvelous did again the same thing by not fighting for the rest of the year. That's only 2 fights in two years. Uncharacteristically if Marvelous. Maybe he deserved a good rest. Maybe he thought he was fading and not fight much. Maybe he was waiting for a challenge from Sugar Ray soon. It's about money and opportunity for him right now.

My question is, why he didn't welcomed a challenge from Mike McCallum, the WBA World Jr Middleweight Champion? What was wrong with McCallum? He stopped KO artist Julian "The Hawk" Jackson of the US Virgin Islands in 2 rounds. He was undefeated. He was an established champion. That fight could have been a multi million dollar payday for both fighters. There's no excuse there. Something ain't right there. Maybe he avoided The Body Snatcher because he was waiting a call from Sugar Ray? Then, why he defended the crown against Mugabi? The only answer we could come up is that Mugabi was a rising star and a KO artist that won all of his 29 bouts by knockout. Plus, he was Marvelous' mandatory #1 challenger. That's all I can answer in that question. But, McCallum shout for a fight with him.

Maybe it was McCallum's own fault in not fighting a middleweight top ten contender to get the media attention pending on his performance. But we have seen challenges from champions from lower classes. That's nothing new. The great welter king Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles challenged the great Carlos Monzon for Monzon's Middleweight title. Napoles didn't had a tune up fight at 160. Neither light-heavyweight king Bob Foster had a tune up when he challenged Smokin' Joe Frazier's Heavyweight crown. So, why McCallum wasn't noticed by Marvelous in those 2 years. It ain't that the fight could have not been made.

[Ambling Alp II]

How do we know that Hearn's ducked McCallum? For all we know it was the other way around. Or more likely, it just didn't happen.

I don't know if he did, but I don't understand why fans are seemingly willing to give fighters passes for not fighting the competition available in their own eras. It's not like its impossible.

Archie Moore and Emile Griffith are proof you can clean out your era if you want to.

Moore never fought Paul Andrews, Erich Schoeppner, Chic Calderwood, or Doug Jones.

Griffith never fought Curtis Cokes, Luis Fredrico Thompson, or Willie Ludick.

[elmersalsa]

I don't know if he did, but I don't understand why fans are seemingly willing to give fighters passes for not fighting the competition available in their own eras. It's not like its impossible.

Archie Moore and Emile Griffith are proof you can clean out your era if you want to.

Moore never fought Paul Andrews, Erich Schoeppner, Chic Calderwood, or Doug Jones.

Griffith never fought Curtis Cokes, Luis Fredrico Thompson, or Willie Ludick.

Marvelous could have fight McCallum by 1985 or '86. Marvelous fought twice in 2 years.

What is the excuse for that?

[Cojimar 1946]

I don't know if he did, but I don't understand why fans are seemingly willing to give fighters passes for not fighting the competition available in their own eras. It's not like its impossible.

Archie Moore and Emile Griffith are proof you can clean out your era if you want to.

Moore never fought Paul Andrews, Erich Schoeppner, Chic Calderwood, or Doug Jones.

Griffith never fought Curtis Cokes, Luis Fredrico Thompson, or Willie Ludick.

Calderwood, Andrews, and Schoeppner aren't good enough for Moore to have an reason to fight them in the first place.

Doug Jones didn't emerge as a top contender until Moore was well past his prime so hardly an issue. It would like accussing Holyfield of ducking Alexander Povetkin. You do realize Jones is more than 20 years younger than Moore?

As far as Curtis Cokes goes at the time Emile Griffith was fighting at welterweight he was losing to guys like Eddie Pace and Jose Stable. There would have been little reason to fight him at that stage in his career. Griffith let the welterweight division in 1965 whereas Cokes didn't establish himself until a few years later. I don't think Ludick is good enough for fighting him to be any sort of priority to Griffith. Thompson seems like the only one where you have some sort of case.

You can find guys they didn't fight but they pretty clearly did a much better job of fighting their contemporaries than most.

[elmersalsa]

Moore never fought Paul Andrews, Erich Schoeppner, Chic Calderwood, or Doug Jones.

Griffith never fought Curtis Cokes, Luis Fredrico Thompson, or Willie Ludick.

Calderwood, Andrews, and Schoeppner aren't good enough for Moore to have an reason to fight them in the first place.

Doug Jones didn't emerge as a top contender until Moore was well past his prime so hardly an issue. It would like accussing Holyfield of ducking Alexander Povetkin. You do realize Jones is more than 20 years younger than Moore?

As far as Curtis Cokes goes at the time Emile Griffith was fighting at welterweight he was losing to guys like Eddie Pace and Jose Stable. There would have been little reason to fight him at that stage in his career. Griffith let the welterweight division in 1965 whereas Cokes didn't establish himself until a few years later. I don't think Ludick is good enough for fighting him to be any sort of priority to Griffith. Thompson seems like the only one where you have some sort of case.

You can find guys they didn't fight but they pretty clearly did a much better job of fighting their contemporaries than most.

That's right.