Post Your Scorecards

[scartissue]

Have either of you guys checked out Tua's bout with Ike Ibeabuchi? An unbelievable 12 rounder.

[Onetimeonly]

I was really disappointed when I saw that after the fact. Plenty of action, no real drama. Thought Ike won, tua won like 3 or 4 RDS total against rock.

[DrDuke]

Have either of you guys checked out Tua's bout with Ike Ibeabuchi? An unbelievable 12 rounder.

I had Tua edging it the last time I watched it, but it wad quite long time ago.

[scartissue]

The first time I saw it I had Ike edging it by a point. The second time I saw it I had it a draw. Here is my score and what I wrote at that time:

Round 1: 10-9 Ike
Round 2: 10-9 Ike
Round 3: 10-9 Ike
Round 4: 10-9 Ike
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Tua
Round 7: 10-9 Tua
Round 8: 10-9 Tua
Round 9: 10-9 Ike
Round 10: 10-9 Tua
Round 11: 10-9 Tua
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 115-115 Draw

I think I agreed on only about half of Harold Lederman's card, but one thing we did agree on was that this is a very difficult fight to score. Not so much for the reasons he stated (that with heavy's it is hard to see inside work) but, my reasoning that, do you score for the heavier, eye-catching blows or the consistent ones. You have to find a happy medium for yourself - something no one else can show you. For instance the 9th round that Harold scored for Tua and I gave Ike. I thought Tua did very little that round but threw and landed a couple of haymakers. I was more impressed with the busier Ike and that jab of his, which I feel is one of the best jabs I've seen a heavyweight throw. Hard and pin-point. Anyways, I'm on my soapbox, suffice to say a great fight and I'll bet everyone has a different score on this one. Just a tough fight on the judge, let alone the combatants.

[scartissue]

Ernie Terrell v George Chuvalo

Here we go on Canada's 5 point must system.

Round 1: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 2: 5-4 Terrell
Round 3: 5-4 Terrell
Round 4: 5-4 Terrell
Round 5: 5-4 Terrell
Round 6: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 7: 5-4 Terrell
Round 8: 5-5 Even
Round 9: 5-4 Terrell
Round 10: 5-4 Terrell
Round 11: 5-4 Terrell
Round 12: 5-4 Terrell
Round 13: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 14: 5-4 Chuvalo
Round 15: 5-4 Chuvalo

Total: 70-66 Terrell (actual scores: 69-64, 73-65 and 72-65 all for Terrell)

Terrell's repeater jabs looked good on the grainy film until you look closer and see that many of them are coming up short or just touching Chuvalo's nose. I also noticed this in the first Chris Eubank v Michael Watson fight. People were raving about the Watson jab but like Terrell, that failure to get in there and commit to it was noticeable. I also thought if Ernie would have thrown combos, which he did only sparingly over 15 rounds, there would have been no doubt on the decision. On my card there wasn't anyway, but he could have gone a long way in making his style a bit more palatable. As for George, unfortunately he doesn't throw punches in combos, he throws them in one's. He only did well when he was able to rough up Ernie. Would have loved to seen this bout in hi-def, but it is what it is.

[Ambling Alp II]

Terrell often seemed to win, not look overly impressive but not awful either. The Machen fight was kind of that as well.

[margaret thatcher]

That is a pet peeve of mine. Guys will get credit for 'outboxing' their opponent using lots of jabs that in reality are hitting nothing but air. Just because you throw a jab doesnt mean it's worth anything.

[oogiebe]

That is a pet peeve of mine. Guys will get credit for 'outboxing' their opponent using lots of jabs that in reality are hitting nothing but air. Just because you throw a jab doesnt mean it's worth anything.

A la Hughie.

[Duran1970]

Chuvalo won that fight.
Terrell was connected. George wasn't

[scartissue]

Chuvalo won that fight.
Terrell was connected. George wasn't

Well, I'm not connected and I had Terrell the winner. But that's what this thread is all about - the share of opinions. So I would love to see others scorecards and opinions on this fight.

[scartissue]

Only because I had never seen it before (no loss) I really wanted to check out the Freddie Norwood v Juan Manuel Marquez 12 rounder. I checked the history on our thread on this fight and found 2 scorecards on this fight. Both Woldemar and Seamus also scored it for Marquez. Anyways, a dull fight to watch and a horrible fight to score, but I thought it was clear who won. Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-8 Norwood (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-9 Marquez
Round 4: 10-9 Marquez
Round 5: 10-9 Norwood
Round 6: 10-9 Marquez
Round 7: 10-9 Marquez
Round 8: 10-9 Marquez (should have been 10-8 but the ref missed the knockdown)
Round 9: 10-8 Marquez (scores a knockdown)
Round 10: 10-9 Marquez
Round 11: 10-9 Norwood
Round 12: 10-9 Marquez

Total: 116-111 Marquez (actual scores were 115-111, 114-112 and 117-112 all for Norwood)

Stunned at the scores. Harold Lederman had it 115-111 for Marquez also. I felt Norwood did so little in this fight and the orthodox/southpaw styles did little to enhance any action, which was underwhelming to begin with. But Marquez was the aggressor throughout and I felt he was robbed. Amazingly, even if Cortez had scored the 8th round a knockdown for Marquez with the extra point, it still wouldn't have mattered in the eyes of those judges.

[scartissue]

Checked out 2 Robin Blake fights. Man, it seemed like he was never off the TV back in the 80s. And rightfully so. Not the greatest fighter but his all-action style really hit the fans with what they wanted to see. Here is his challenge for the lightweight title against Jimmy Paul.

Round 1: 10-9 Paul
Round 2: 10-9 Blake
Round 3: 10-9 Blake
Round 4: 10-9 Blake
Round 5: 10-9 Blake
Round 6: 10-9 Paul
Round 7: 10-10 Even
Round 8: 10-9 Paul
Round 9: 10-8 Paul (scores a knockdown)
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Paul
Round 12: 10-8 Paul (scores a knockdown)
Round 13: 10-9 Paul
Round 14: Paul stops Blake

Total through 13 rounds: 126-121 Paul (actual scores: 126-121, 127-119 and 129-117 all for Paul)

Jimmy Paul's punches - although fewer - were like they were laser-guided. He made them all count and was really zeroing in on Blake with that lead right. He really took his time in this fight and it came up dividends. Blake was his all-action self but he was up against it here.

The second fight of Blake's I watched today was his last fight against Nia Khumalo. By this time Blake had moved up to welterweight and although he held height and reach advantages over the smaller South African, he couldn't do a thing with him. Khumalo had a really nice, tight style and he was able to go under and inside on Blake. No need to run a scorecard here. I only gave Blake the 2nd round and the rest to Khumalo who was thumping Blake by the 7th when his father threw in the towel on the fight and Blake's career. I had Khumalo ahead 59-55 after 6 completed rounds.

[Woldemar]

Tae Shik Kim vs Roberto Ramirez.

1. Ramirez
2-3 Kim
4-10 Ramirez

Winner : Roberto Ramirez 98-92

Official decision : Tae Shik Kim won by SD.

Good brawl.Ramirez landed much more punches ,was better all over.Kim was much passive in ring.Clean win by Roberto but judges watched another fight )).It was last fight Kim who was a WBA World flyweight champ .

[scartissue]

Watched a bout recently between Veeraphol Sahaprom and Daorung Chuwatana, which was recommeded to me. And let me tell you, I really enjoyed it. Tactical as well as exciting.

Round 1: 10-9 DC
Round 2: 10-9 DC
Round 3: 10-9 DC
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 VS
Round 7: 10-9 VS
Round 8: 10-9 VS
Round 9: 10-9 VS
Round 10: 10-9 VS
Round 11: 10-9 VS
Round 12: 10-9 DC

Total: 116-114 Sahaprom (actual scores: 117-114 and 118-113 for VS and 115-114 for DC)

A good, close fight where the judge really has to watch the minute shifts in play. DC had an excellent southpaw jab and looping left hook and was deadly when he got VS on the ropes. Once VS had that figured out he absolutely mastered use of the ring and never allowed it again after DC's early success. But what really impressed me about VS was his lead right, which he never kept out of VS's face and really turned the fight around during the middle of the fight and didn't relinquish control until a really spirited attempt by DC in the final round. Excellent fight.

[scartissue]

I recently read a piece on South Africa's promoter Rodney Berman where he was bringing up the robbery of Brian Mitchell in his first fight against Tony Lopez. I felt the need to check this out as I never saw the fight before. But be forewarned, the two announcers on the telecast (both South African) are two Brian Mitchell cheerleaders. So stick to your guns and don't let them sway you.

Round 1: 10-9 Lopez
Round 2: 10-9 Lopez
Round 3: 10-9 Lopez
Round 4: 10-9 Mitchell
Round 5: 10-9 Lopez
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 Mitchell
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Mitchell
Round 10: 10-9 Lopez
Round 11: 10-10 Even
Round 12: 10-9 Lopez

Total: 117-114 Lopez (actual scores: 115-114 for Lopez, 115-113 for Mitchell and 115-115 for a Draw decision)

Where to begin??? This fight was so damn close. Despite my score I had no problem with the draw. Mitchell was steady, if not unspectacular and Lopez was slinging the shots with more vim. After starting out impartial the two blow-by blow commentators devolved into practically screaming rah-rah for Brian. I noticed they wouldn't even mention the Lopez overhand rights that always seemed to land on Mitchell. Anyways, I hated to have 3 Even rounds but even some of the rounds I was awarding the combatants could have gone either way. This was just super close and no robbery. Definitely a good test of ones scoring skills and preferences.

[Seamus]

Scartissue, I think my cards for those two bouts on here.

[scartissue]

Scartissue, I think my cards for those two bouts on here.

Seamus, I just looked at the history on these two fighters and saw your cards. We were both on the same page with our scores although I'm sure there were some differing rounds. Good fights though.

[scartissue]

Here's a good entertaining fight - the second bout between Harold Brazier and John Wesley Meekins. Their first fight ended in an unsatisfying 2 round TD because of a head-butt induced cut on Brazier's forehead. Their rematch was an excellent blend in styles of Meekins hard-punching-crowding style against Brazier's beautiful jabs-counterpunching and underrated body shots (not as hard as Meekins' but pinpoint). Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Meekins
Round 3: 10-9 Meekins
Round 4: 10-9 Brazier
Round 5: 10-9 Brazier
Round 6: 10-9 Brazier
Round 7: 10-9 Brazier
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Brazier
Round 10: 10-9 Brazier
Round 11: 10-9 Meekins
Round 12: 10-9 Brazier

Total: 117-113 Brazier (actual scores were 116-112, 116-112 and 116-113 all for Brazier)

It's nice when all official parties are actually watching the same fight. This was a good classy fight that any fight fan would enjoy with subtle changes in direction. A good fight.

[Woldemar]

Here's a good entertaining fight - the second bout between Harold Brazier and John Wesley Meekins. Their first fight ended in an unsatisfying 2 round TD because of a head-butt induced cut on Brazier's forehead. Their rematch was an excellent blend in styles of Meekins hard-punching-crowding style against Brazier's beautiful jabs-counterpunching and underrated body shots (not as hard as Meekins' but pinpoint). Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Meekins
Round 3: 10-9 Meekins
Round 4: 10-9 Brazier
Round 5: 10-9 Brazier
Round 6: 10-9 Brazier
Round 7: 10-9 Brazier
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Brazier
Round 10: 10-9 Brazier
Round 11: 10-9 Meekins
Round 12: 10-9 Brazier

Total: 117-113 Brazier (actual scores were 116-112, 116-112 and 116-113 all for Brazier)

It's nice when all official parties are actually watching the same fight. This was a good classy fight that any fight fan would enjoy with subtle changes in direction. A good fight.

Advice you watching Meekins against Mohammed Kawoya .Very interesting and unusual fight ending ).

[scartissue]

Here's a good entertaining fight - the second bout between Harold Brazier and John Wesley Meekins. Their first fight ended in an unsatisfying 2 round TD because of a head-butt induced cut on Brazier's forehead. Their rematch was an excellent blend in styles of Meekins hard-punching-crowding style against Brazier's beautiful jabs-counterpunching and underrated body shots (not as hard as Meekins' but pinpoint). Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Meekins
Round 3: 10-9 Meekins
Round 4: 10-9 Brazier
Round 5: 10-9 Brazier
Round 6: 10-9 Brazier
Round 7: 10-9 Brazier
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Brazier
Round 10: 10-9 Brazier
Round 11: 10-9 Meekins
Round 12: 10-9 Brazier

Total: 117-113 Brazier (actual scores were 116-112, 116-112 and 116-113 all for Brazier)

It's nice when all official parties are actually watching the same fight. This was a good classy fight that any fight fan would enjoy with subtle changes in direction. A good fight.

Advice you watching Meekins against Mohammed Kawoya .Very interesting and unusual fight ending ).

I think I know the one your referring to. I won't give it away here, but I will check it out in its entirety.

[Nile4000]

Claude Noel vs Rodolfo (Gato) Gonzalez

1)Noel
2)Noel
3)Gonzalez
4)Noel
5)Noel
6)Gonzalez
7)Noel
8)Noel
9)Even
10)Even
11)Noel
12)Gonzalez
13)Even
14)Gonzalez
15)Noel

146-142.

Pretty good fight for the most part, but Noel seemed to take charge from jump. Gato had his moments, but whether he was ill, the broken jaw, or Noel's experience, he never could truly get off.

[scartissue]

Here's a good entertaining fight - the second bout between Harold Brazier and John Wesley Meekins. Their first fight ended in an unsatisfying 2 round TD because of a head-butt induced cut on Brazier's forehead. Their rematch was an excellent blend in styles of Meekins hard-punching-crowding style against Brazier's beautiful jabs-counterpunching and underrated body shots (not as hard as Meekins' but pinpoint). Here we go.

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Meekins
Round 3: 10-9 Meekins
Round 4: 10-9 Brazier
Round 5: 10-9 Brazier
Round 6: 10-9 Brazier
Round 7: 10-9 Brazier
Round 8: 10-10 Even
Round 9: 10-9 Brazier
Round 10: 10-9 Brazier
Round 11: 10-9 Meekins
Round 12: 10-9 Brazier

Total: 117-113 Brazier (actual scores were 116-112, 116-112 and 116-113 all for Brazier)

It's nice when all official parties are actually watching the same fight. This was a good classy fight that any fight fan would enjoy with subtle changes in direction. A good fight.

Advice you watching Meekins against Mohammed Kawoya .Very interesting and unusual fight ending ).

Woldemar, I remember this from a highlight reel a few years back, but thanks for putting it on the old radar. Definitely one of those fights that slip into 'ring oddities'

John Wesley Meekins v Mohammed Kawoya - The 1st round belongs to Meekins 10-9 as he controls the fight with a strong jab. The 2nd round I scored a 10-8 as Meekins drops Kawoya. My scoring is rather conservative because Meekins hurts Kawoya twice more before the end of the round. Conceivably I can see anyone scoring this a 10-7 as well. The 3rd round was crazy. Kawoya drops a complacent Meekins, then Meekins drops Kawoya. After arising, Kawoya and Meekins are going at it with Kawoya's back to the ropes and referee Paul Venti jumps in - prematurely IMO - to stop the fight. The thing is, he jumps in while they are exchanging and Kawoya's last right hand drops Meekins hard. Venti doesn't see the punch nor Meekins down because he jumped between them facing Kawoya. When he does notice Meekins crawling to the ropes he stubbornly will not give ground and states "I already stopped the fight!" He was probably right on that point but I thought Kawoya was still making a fight of it and was surprised to see him jump between them. A crazy ending to a fight that shouldn't have ended when it did and God only knows if Meekins could have beaten the count or survived Kawoya's followup, because there was a lot of time left in that round. Crazy, man.

[LeRoiDuRing]

Muhammad Ali vs Jimmy Young (1976-04-30)

This title defense of the second reigh of Muhammad Ali is a very uneventful and dull fight showcasing The Greatest in arguably the worst shape of his carreer next to the Holmes one 4 years later, but it's still a very interesting one to score. There's a lot of different opinion of this one, some feels Ali was gifted the win, other feels like Young didn't do enough to win the title and that his use of passing his head through the ropes to evade Ali combinations. As such very few clear punches were landed by both man in the 15 rounder leading to a contreversial UD win for Muhammad Ali for which the champion himself admitted to train very little.

The fight was scored using the now forgotten 5 point must system which is the exact same thing as the 10 point system except the winner of a round gets 5 points and the loser 4 so this is the system I am going to use so my scorecard can easily be compared to the ones of the officials.

I must also precise that I am not very keen on scoring even rounds, in my book, a round of boxing is 3 minutes of competition in which one of the athletes always ends up taking the edge, even if very slight.

Round 1 : Young 5-4
Round 2 : Young 5-4
Round 3 : Ali 5-4
Round 4 : Young 5-4
Round 5 : Ali 5-4
Round 6 : Ali 5-4
Round 7 : Young 5-4
Round 8 : Ali 5-4
Round 9 : Ali 5-4
Round 10 : Young 5-4
Round 11 : Ali 5-4
Round 12 : Ali 5-3 Young was given a standing 8-count for pulling his head through the ropes
Round 13 : Young 5-4
Round 14 : Young 5-4
Round 15 : Young 5-4

FINAL SCORE : 67-67 DRAW

A very very close fight in which Ali just wasn't able to establish anything against the younger, faster and great counter-puncher Young which never tried to put any pressure on Ali giving us this very dull fight.

So the final question : Was Ali given the win ? No I don't think so as most of the fight go in the ''could have gone either way'' category. Young wasn't able to do any damage and pull any weight behind his punches even the stronger one, despite his poor condition Ali was able to throw and land the smartest and most effective punches. I also gave Young most of the rounds in which he pulled his head outside the ropes even the 13th in which he did it twice in a row because the referre did nothing about it but I could understand an official taking it into account to score the round against. In the end those weird dirty tactics might have costed him his once in a lifetime shot at Ali.

The officials scorecard were 72-65 / 71-64 / 70-68. The first two are really far from reality, I believe one of the judges scored none of the first 10 rounds for Young. Ali in the first round literally landed 0 punches because he was showboating and fooling around and one of the ended up scoring it even despite Young scoring with a couple of jabs and touch to the body, this is lunatic. The guy who scored 70-68 was certainly the more down to earth. Despite the weird scorecards, I think they did the right decision making Ali keep the heavyweight crown.

I must say this fight was a pain to score and that's why I want to share my scorecard with you guys to see if people have similar or different opinions on my take on it. How did you see it ?

This is my first ever post on the boxrec forum and after years of lurking around on the website, I finally decided to created an account to share my scorecards with you. I must also precise that engligh isn't my native language so sorry if there's any formating or spelling issue.

[scartissue]

Muhammad Ali vs Jimmy Young (1976-04-30)

This title defense of the second reigh of Muhammad Ali is a very uneventful and dull fight showcasing The Greatest in arguably the worst shape of his carreer next to the Holmes one 4 years later, but it's still a very interesting one to score. There's a lot of different opinion of this one, some feels Ali was gifted the win, other feels like Young didn't do enough to win the title and that his use of passing his head through the ropes to evade Ali combinations. As such very few clear punches were landed by both man in the 15 rounder leading to a contreversial UD win for Muhammad Ali for which the champion himself admitted to train very little.

The fight was scored using the now forgotten 5 point must system which is the exact same thing as the 10 point system except the winner of a round gets 5 points and the loser 4 so this is the system I am going to use so my scorecard can easily be compared to the ones of the officials.

I must also precise that I am not very keen on scoring even rounds, in my book, a round of boxing is 3 minutes of competition in which one of the athletes always ends up taking the edge, even if very slight.

Round 1 : Young 5-4
Round 2 : Young 5-4
Round 3 : Ali 5-4
Round 4 : Young 5-4
Round 5 : Ali 5-4
Round 6 : Ali 5-4
Round 7 : Young 5-4
Round 8 : Ali 5-4
Round 9 : Ali 5-4
Round 10 : Young 5-4
Round 11 : Ali 5-4
Round 12 : Ali 5-3 Young was given a standing 8-count for pulling his head through the ropes
Round 13 : Young 5-4
Round 14 : Young 5-4
Round 15 : Young 5-4

FINAL SCORE : 67-67 DRAW

A very very close fight in which Ali just wasn't able to establish anything against the younger, faster and great counter-puncher Young which never tried to put any pressure on Ali giving us this very dull fight.

So the final question : Was Ali given the win ? No I don't think so as most of the fight go in the ''could have gone either way'' category. Young wasn't able to do any damage and pull any weight behind his punches even the stronger one, despite his poor condition Ali was able to throw and land the smartest and most effective punches. I also gave Young most of the rounds in which he pulled his head outside the ropes even the 13th in which he did it twice in a row because the referre did nothing about it but I could understand an official taking it into account to score the round against. In the end those weird dirty tactics might have costed him his once in a lifetime shot at Ali.

The officials scorecard were 72-65 / 71-64 / 70-68. The first two are really far from reality, I believe one of the judges scored none of the first 10 rounds for Young. Ali in the first round literally landed 0 punches because he was showboating and fooling around and one of the ended up scoring it even despite Young scoring with a couple of jabs and touch to the body, this is lunatic. The guy who scored 70-68 was certainly the more down to earth. Despite the weird scorecards, I think they did the right decision making Ali keep the heavyweight crown.

I must say this fight was a pain to score and that's why I want to share my scorecard with you guys to see if people have similar or different opinions on my take on it. How did you see it ?

This is my first ever post on the boxrec forum and after years of lurking around on the website, I finally decided to created an account to share my scorecards with you. I must also precise that engligh isn't my native language so sorry if there's any formating or spelling issue.

Dude, welcome aboard. I saw this fight live back in '76 and have never quite been able to watch it again. LOL! But please, we'd all love to see more scorecards. And again, welcome aboard.

[scartissue]

I recently watched the Herol Graham v Ayub Kalule fight, which I had never seen before. No sense in running a scorecard here, Graham took every round on my card until it was stopped in the 10th. This was absolute peak Graham against an older Kalule. I believe one of the great mistakes was Kalule's manager whittling him down to 154 when he was evidently stronger as a middleweight. From about '78 when he was beating Sugar Ray Seales, Kevin Finnegan, David Love, Johnny Baldwin and winning the Commonwealth middleweight title, he was set to fit right into a stellar 160 era with Hagler, Vito, Minter, Hamsho, Sibson, Parker, etc. But perhaps this is why the manager took him to 154. To reign in hell was better than to serve in heaven I guess they were thinking. Anyways, this was Kalule when they took the chains off but a little late in the day. I must say this was about the smallest ring I ever saw, one which could not benefit Graham, but he was still too much.