Ruiz's wins over AJ and Ortiz are better than Wilders wins over Ortiz and whoever his second best win is supposed to be. His loss to Parker was disputed and was now 6 years ago so that is losing significance in comparison.
Wallin is still way too high which makes the 10-15 rankings difficult but Ortiz's best win is a close fight he nearly lost vs Martin and then Jennings 7 years ago, while Helenius just beat a guy twice who also beat Martin, Sanchez's win over Efe will probably age well. Bakole and Chisora's wins are clearly better.
Last edited by joshj909 on 05 Sep 2022, 06:59, edited 2 times in total.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 06:56
I think it's not good that Bakole hasn't got another fight scheduled yet.. He beat Yoka in May I think it was.
Wallin should have a fight scheduled.. He fought bloody Booker in May.
Sanchez fought in January ...
I think that should Ortiz have won last night, Sanchez would have been Wilders next opponent (if he wins). Now Ruiz is clearly lined up, Sanchez should get himself something scheduled asap otherwise he will end up forgotten.
cpx2 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 07:04
I'd put Ruiz above Whyte, and Ortiz should probably remain at 8 for now.
The fight was basically a draw and a few even had Ortiz winning even with the KD's..
It's not that I think Ortiz deserves to be dropped, it's more of the names that are currently below him.. Don't deserve it.
Precisely, I wouldn't move him down on that basis. Equally though, while I think Ruiz over Whyte is almost common sense now, I wouldn't have him above Parker yet; as you say, it seems to be consensus that Ortiz won the majority of the rounds against Ruiz. I'd wait for Parker-Joyce to happen and then act accordingly.
Yeah, maybe you're right. Still, in my cards it was Ortiz the one who won the fight. It's a similar situation as the Chisora - Pulev fight, where I saw Pulev win. I can't vote Ruiz going up if I think he lost.
with the kds ortiz clearly lost imo and he looked the old man he is. previously he was being bounced off the canvas by unranked charles martin. he cannot take a good shot these days as shown over multiple fights. i rate chizzy and bakole's last wins higher than his
both ruiz and ort had awful pacing and seriously lacked gas btw, i wasnt impressed with either, but it's hard to keep ruiz below whyte with whyte losing so feebly vs fury
Think the main issue with Ruiz is, he deserves to be above Whyte.
But Parker is only fighting in 2 weeks. If Joyce beats Parker, he's gonna leapfrog them all anyway most likely. But when Parker beats Joyce, he'll have a chance to overtake Wilder.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 12:43
Think the main issue with Ruiz is, he deserves to be above Whyte.
But Parker is only fighting in 2 weeks. If Joyce beats Parker, he's gonna leapfrog them all anyway most likely. But when Parker beats Joyce, he'll have a chance to overtake Wilder.
Beating Parker shouldn't put Joyce over Whyte. Parker will be Joyce's only proven win. Whyte has had a number of them, including over Parker.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 12:43
Think the main issue with Ruiz is, he deserves to be above Whyte.
But Parker is only fighting in 2 weeks. If Joyce beats Parker, he's gonna leapfrog them all anyway most likely. But when Parker beats Joyce, he'll have a chance to overtake Wilder.
Beating Parker shouldn't put Joyce over Whyte. Parker will be Joyce's only proven win. Whyte has had a number of them, including over Parker.
I think that's placing too much emphasis on resume and fights from too long ago. If Joyce beats the Parker of Chisora II, it'd be reasonable to assume that he'd beat the current iteration of Whyte as well. Personally if Joyce were to comprehensively beat Parker I'd definitely put him above Whyte.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Sep 2022, 12:43
Think the main issue with Ruiz is, he deserves to be above Whyte.
But Parker is only fighting in 2 weeks. If Joyce beats Parker, he's gonna leapfrog them all anyway most likely. But when Parker beats Joyce, he'll have a chance to overtake Wilder.
Beating Parker shouldn't put Joyce over Whyte. Parker will be Joyce's only proven win. Whyte has had a number of them, including over Parker.
I think that's placing too much emphasis on resume and fights from too long ago. If Joyce beats the Parker of Chisora II, it'd be reasonable to assume that he'd beat the current iteration of Whyte as well. Personally if Joyce were to comprehensively beat Parker I'd definitely put him above Whyte.
I think that places too much emphasis on what he would do against Whyte rather than what he has actually accomplished. Should he win he'd have victories over Parker, Takam, Dubois and Hammer whereas Whyte has victories over Povetkin, Parker, Chisora X2, Helenius, Rivas and Wach (only including him as I included Hammer). There's definitely too much emphasis on Whyte's losses against consensus top 3 Fury and AJ then his flash KO loss against perennial top 5 Povetkin.
Beating Parker shouldn't put Joyce over Whyte. Parker will be Joyce's only proven win. Whyte has had a number of them, including over Parker.
I think that's placing too much emphasis on resume and fights from too long ago. If Joyce beats the Parker of Chisora II, it'd be reasonable to assume that he'd beat the current iteration of Whyte as well. Personally if Joyce were to comprehensively beat Parker I'd definitely put him above Whyte.
I think that places too much emphasis on what he would do against Whyte rather than what he has actually accomplished. Should he win he'd have victories over Parker, Takam, Dubois and Hammer whereas Whyte has victories over Povetkin, Parker, Chisora X2, Helenius, Rivas and Wach (only including him as I included Hammer). There's definitely too much emphasis on Whyte's losses against consensus top 3 Fury and AJ then his flash KO loss against perennial top 5 Povetkin.
We’ll cross that bridge when it comes to it.
Last nights fight was a bit of a letdown tbh. Just looking forward to the next.
I can not see raising Ruiz since the consensus from most of you was that Ortiz was an over the hill never was.
I say leave them both where they are. Close fight even with the knockdowns
In the fight, the second KD was a push, which would make it near as a draw.
I don't think it was a good performance from Ruiz- even if you thought he won it without counting the second knock down.
As for Ortiz, apart from being more chinny with age, he actually did OK, but then he didn't have much coming at him the whole fight.
Ruiz showed incredible power and toughness in that fight. Insane the hate that he's getting. Dude literally has better wins on paper than Wilder at this point (aside from his margin of victory over Ortiz isn't as good as Wilder's margins of victory).
Oleksandr Usyk - 20(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA
Anthony Joshua - 24(22) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA
Deontay Wilder - 42(41) 2(2) 1 - next fight: 15.10.2022 vs. 
Robert Helenius - 31(20) 3(2) 0 - (#12)
Joseph Parker - 30(21) 2(0) 0 - next fight: 24.09.2022 vs. 
Andy Ruiz Jr - 35(22) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA
Luis Ortiz - 33(28) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA
Martin Bakole - 18(13) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA
Otto Wallin - 24(14) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA
Carlos Negron - 25(20) 3(3) 0 - (unranked)
Kubrat Pulev - 29(14) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA
Filip Hrgovic - 15(12) 0 0 - next fight: TBA
