Prospect vs Journeymen

[Coco]

That's why all the Scottish kids are unbeaten until the venture south of the border!
The Irish too

[TheLeprechaun]

Rydell Booker just done a prospect

[Verdi]

I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

I wouldn't call Harley Benn a prospect. He's just got a famous surname. He's shit.

[gilgamesh]

5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

[Old bones Ian]

5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I think one of the differences between here and America is that they put on mid-west shows where the journeyman is actually the big name, so you get the like of Buck Smith , Marty Jakubowski etc running up impressive records, you would have a journeyman in the UK being able to do that.
Guess you could say Tony Booth is an example of it .

[Coco]

5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I had a flick at that book, poor really, his choice of journeymen to be interviewed was def odd.

[gilgamesh]

5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I had a flick at that book, poor really, his choice of journeymen to be interviewed was def odd.

Yeah I agree. Like I said, I feel like he was being generous by referring to those guys as Journeymen. They're Paid Losers. They're below Journeymen.

Journeymen to me are like Emanuel Augustus. A guy with either just as many wins as he has losses or close to it.

At the very least, the guy has to be giving a legitimate effort.

[Counter-puncher]

I can see why someone tries harder on home turf but I’ve no idea why southern and central areas would be different

Because fighters know where they will get a fairer deal from the local refs tbh So they try harder because its worth going for it because if you do the job theres a good chance youl get the nod

Thanks Jon

[Old bones Ian]

America always had good fun journeyman heavyweights , they don't seem to be around that much anymore

[wrighty]

I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

I wouldn't call Harley Benn a prospect. He's just got a famous surname. He's shit.

He's likeable but I'm not sure he has it. He would have been better off keeping the Andrews name and just getting in some amateur bouts. Connor didn't seem much cop until he tucked into the 30 egg omelettes. So maybe that's what Harley needs to do. Rattle off like 5 straight stoppages

[TheGman]

A good family friend and sparring partner of mine back in the day would never turn up knowing he would lose,he always fought to win and never ever looked on himself as a journeyman,he hated being called this.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/22830

[TheGman]

The job of a journeyman in my opinion is to make the prospect work for the win,try all the tricks to rough the prospect up and try to not get cut or stopped,look at Kevin mcauley,he fights sometimes 3 times a month and tries his best to rough house the prospect he rarely gets stopped and has probably earned more money than most he has fought.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/454087

[littlepug]

I think sometimes the UK journeymen turn up in a different mood and turn the tables on the prospect, it happens from time to time and probably more often than people realise. Harley Benn got beat by someone with no previous wins and a shed load of losses.

I wouldn't call Harley Benn a prospect. He's just got a famous surname. He's shit.

You know what I mean and you know what the guy’s purpose was in that fight and he went off script.

[Coco]

A good family friend and sparring partner of mine back in the day would never turn up knowing he would lose,he always fought to win and never ever looked on himself as a journeyman,he hated being called this.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/22830

And look how many champions he fought

[TheGman]

A good family friend and sparring partner of mine back in the day would never turn up knowing he would lose,he always fought to win and never ever looked on himself as a journeyman,he hated being called this.
https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/22830

And look how many champions he fought

The day he fought Ricky burns he was sitting at home in Birkenhead the morning of the fight,Tommy gilmour called him up and offered him a certain amount he said no, then he got offered more,both offers where under 1000 by a couple of hundred,he said yes and went up to Scotland that day to fight that night. If he had his head screwed on he could of got a couple of grand instead he didn't even clear 800. The life if the lower level of boxing in the UK.

[wrighty]

5-0 against 3-51-1.

Is this an important part of a boxer's development? Is the journeyman trying his best with limited skills? Or..... is the journeyman not trying to win, while doing his best not to get knocked out?

Read the book Journeymen by Mark Turley

Many of the fighters of that ilk with the 3-51-1 type records are talked in that book. They ALL mention being told by promoters to get in there with a young cat and "Give him the 'ol move about" meaning. Just move around, do just enough to look like you're defending yourself, and don't embarrass the kid even if you can.

So basically these fights are fixed.

The only thing a Prospect can learn from a fight like this is maybe how to penetrate the defense of a guy who's doing nothing but covering up and defending. Because that's what he's gonna be faced with in this situation 90% of the time.

The Journeyman's only real goal is to not get knocked out because if he gets KO'd he may well be called before the board or at the very least he'll be forced to take a month off.

Often these guys with the lopsided losing records fight on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Journeyman is a kind word for them. They're Paid Losers.

Say what you want about America, but I don't think that would fly here. Reggie Strickland is the most Prolific American Journeyman I can think of, and even he has 50+ wins to his credit.

I think one of the differences between here and America is that they put on mid-west shows where the journeyman is actually the big name, so you get the like of Buck Smith , Marty Jakubowski etc running up impressive records, you would have a journeyman in the UK being able to do that.
Guess you could say Tony Booth is an example of it .

I remember the crowd chanting "you fat bastard" to Tony, him doing the Ali shuffle then taking the fella out

[Sweet Dick Willie]

The crazy thing in Turley's book was that 5-80 or something like that dude who still thought he is gonna be a real contender some day. Also the stories of some of the journeymen snorting coke and drinking booze in the dressing room right before a fight.

[Coco]

The crazy thing in Turley's book was that 5-80 or something like that dude who still thought he is gonna be a real contender some day. Also the stories of some of the journeymen snorting coke and drinking booze in the dressing room right before a fight.

That's pretty much bull, maybe the fighter was playing with the author or just making excuses.

All fighters are so nervous before fights it's a struggle to hold down or hold in a sip of water

[Dioufy]

Big sexy Fraze being linked to Kingpin Johnson on the Beefy/KFC card.
Wtf.

[mickey1975]

Lee Connelley retired today after 99 fights losing on points over 6 to James Flint in which MC Phil Seymour said "was the best 6 rounder i've ever seen".

[Glass Joe]

interesting read and comments

[margaret thatcher]

you read that.....then you think of someone like shannon pat butcher courtenay who's been pampered by a major promoter from the start despite being on short on looks, talent, and personality

[Black Sam Bellamy]

There's an interesting interview with Steve Wood on his VIP channel where he talks about there not being enough money in the pot for certain shows to pay the prospect a purse. That's the impression I got from listening anyway. Admittedly the prospects in question were not big ticket sellers. These were fights very early on in the prospect's career so I assume quality of opponent reflected that.

My first thought was that it was unacceptable to send a prospect or journeyman into the ring, unpaid. Even if the ultimate aim is to build the prospect's record. It made me wonder, is this sort of thing commonplace on small hall shows ?

[margaret thatcher]

i thought that was pretty normal tbh, at this level it's the journeymen who are the real winners at the end of the night

[keithmoonhangover]

America always had good fun journeyman heavyweights , they don't seem to be around that much anymore

Guys like David Jaco, Mark Wills, Bobby Crabtree, Jesse Ferguson and Big Foot Martin always gave a good account of themselves and caused the odd upset.

These days Terrell Jamal Woods always tries for the win despite having a losing record. Zack Page was the same until he retired.