June 22, 1938: Joe Louis vs Max Schmeling II

[elmersalsa]

One of the most anticipated heavyweight championship fights in boxing history happened on this date 85 years ago.

It was the rematch of Louis vs Schmeling at Yankee Stadium in The Bronx, New York

I know that nobody in this forum wasn't even born then, but there are videotapes of that famous fight.

On June 1936, a supposedly over the hill former heavyweight World Champion, Max Schmeling of Germany stops the rising superstar Joe Louis of Detroit, MI. Schmeling won by a 12th round knockout.

Joe Louis redeemed himself by avenging his first defeat by a first round knockout! Germany surrenders!

[Ezzard]

Schmeling gets underrated these days. Terrific fighter.

[Caractacus]

World War II started Septermber.1. 1939, when Germany invaded Poland, and The US did not enter it until December 1941.
( Also Schmeling was sent to the Front lines to fight it )

[HomicideHenry]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

[AngryGoon38]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

[Riddick Bowie]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Hitler outlived FDR

[HomicideHenry]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Hitler outlived FDR

FDR died April 12th and Hitler committed suicide April 30th. You may as well say that FDR defeated the man because the bulk of American involvement was under FDR's leadership. The war officially ended September 2 only due to Japan. Germany surrendered May 7th.

[HomicideHenry]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

I don't believe he threw the fight.

If he did he should have did it on the first knock down rather than getting himself back up. What proceeded after that first knock down was a total annihilation. Real dives are non-efforts. Louis never gave him the chance to ever get set or started.

[Riddick Bowie]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Hitler outlived FDR

FDR died April 12th and Hitler committed suicide April 30th. You may as well say that FDR defeated the man because the bulk of American involvement was under FDR's leadership. The war officially ended September 2 only due to Japan. Germany surrendered May 7th.

He committed suicide because the Ruskies were in Berlin

[Benny The Kid]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

I'm going to need to read this in at least one newspaper to have any validity to such a claim.
First thing you learn as a researcher an option isn't a fact.

[Benny The Kid]

I think Max Schmeling was very far removed his prime. They certainly weren't as far apart as they would appear in the rematch. Schmeling waited an extra long time for the rematch and basically went inactive for 13 months after their first fight rendering his development into a backwards phase.

[AngryGoon38]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

I don't believe he threw the fight.

If he did he should have did it on the first knock down rather than getting himself back up. What proceeded after that first knock down was a total annihilation. Real dives are non-efforts. Louis never gave him the chance to ever get set or started.

The way Max was clinging to the ropes with one hand while being coherent enough to look at Joe before getting belted in the midsection, Really tells me that Max wanted to let himself get badly beaten up in the ring, in order to Really Embarrass Hitler, whom Max was Profoundly Not Fond Of. Furthermore, Max had both conviction, as well as spite and very deep level Sadness going into this bout. Hitler's storm-troopers kidnapped his Dearly Beloved Wife days before this bout !!... Hello !! : /
Hitler wanted to give Max an Ultimatum. Max had Very Good Friends who were Jews. Hitler of course Hated this.
He figured that Max would basically Kneel down to his Ultimatums though.

Promptly fight like A proud German Warrior, win, lose, or draw. Max was dead-set on embarrassing Hitler, even more-so than he got embarrassed by Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympics. And also, Yeah, You say "Why didn't Max just simply stay down after the first knockdown".
It's because he was in a Very Conflicting Situation. A Big part of him wanted to still fight hard in a fight,.. but a Bigger part of him was dead set on embarrassing Hitler. It's called Confliction.

It Was a Big Fight, for the fans and for Louis. For Max it was just simply a Fight, a fight that he would've preferred to not be participating in. Max wasn't as good as he was in 1936 by then, and he knew it. He didn't feel that he should need to have to prove anything by that point in time. The fight had Big Money Benefits though, and therefore, Max just couldn't refuse.
1938 Max Schmelling and 1988 Michael Spinks are Very Correlative Losing Opponents.

Spinks Never tried to employ any elusive defensive stuff vs Tyson in 1988. Max Never tried clinching or moving away from the ropes, or blocking any of Louis's telegraphed haymaker body-punches.
For Spinks. A Going out easy, retirement bout. For Schmelling, Embarrass Hitler and collect a nice paycheck in the process.
And Honor Thy Dearly Beloved Wife by taking Undefending Killer Body Punches.

[AngryGoon38]

You can look at the fight in three different ways:

1. It is arguably the best example you can ever give of what one man properly trained can do to another man.

2. Joe Louis got away with multiple fouls and literally broke Schmeling's back in the process.

3. The fight was a mirror of the world at least politically. America vs Germany, Freedom vs Fascism. Although Schmeling was not a nazi he was nevertheless a tool used by the nazis to push their evil ideologies. The fact a man of color would annihilate a figure of alleged aryan supremacy was similar to FDR defeating Hitler where a crippled man terminated an evil man who declared that some were better than others because of their physical conditions.

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

I'm going to need to read this in at least one newspaper to have any validity to such a claim.
First thing you learn as a researcher an option isn't a fact.

It was thoroughly documented in a tv movie back in the early 1980's.

They obviously promptly Banned the movie from Ever Being Shown Again.

Probably Burned every last copy of the movie as well.

Wokeism was already well into effect by the early 1980's.

They didn't want to dare undermine This Accomplishment/Victory of Joe Louis.

Like I've stated though, I think that Max was going to Very Likely Lose the rematch, no matter what his approach or mindset would've been. He was simply a proverbial has-been by this point in time. He knew that he wasn't the same anymore and took the bout for the main reasons of Spiting and Embarrassing Hitler, and getting that Lofty Paycheck.
Max would've Gladly Forfeited this bout if the trade-off benefit had been to just simply get his Beloved Wife back though.

People just don't realize the inside scoops with these things. I do though, because of that soon thereafter banned tv-movie that I saw in the early 1980's, and also by way of clearly seeing that Max was basically obviously positioning himself, alongside the ropes, in a way that profoundly said, "Here, go ahead and Hit me wherever and as hard as you want".
Boxing is often a Brutal and Sceevy business, and it sometimes has certain intricate things attached to the approaches and outcomes.

[Ezzard]

Not for nothing but Schmelling threw that fight.

It's So Obvious.

He did it(Took a Dive) in order to Properly and Abundantly Spite Hitler, and embarrass him.

And to top it all off, Hitler's Nazi Henchmen/Thugs/Goons,etc,what have ya, had kidnapped Schmelling's wife, prior to the 2nd bout with Louis. Hitler was So Brain-Warped on Pills, that apparently he thought Schmelling would turn compliant to his ideologies, Nazi'ism, etc. A Very Nutty Scenario it all was.

Not saying that Max was going to win the rematch, if the underlying circumstances were otherwise, but just the same, it's So Obvious that he Did Indeed take a blatant Dive in that rematch, and he did so in quite rapid fashion, which 27 years later, in 1965, Sonny Liston would Also proceed to follow suit by taking a Rather Quickie Quick Quickster Dive-Job with Ali.

I'm going to need to read this in at least one newspaper to have any validity to such a claim.
First thing you learn as a researcher an option isn't a fact.

It was thoroughly documented in a tv movie back in the early 1980's.

They obviously promptly Banned the movie from Ever Being Shown Again.

Probably Burned every last copy of the movie as well.

Wokeism was already well into effect by the early 1980's.

They didn't want to dare undermine This Accomplishment/Victory of Joe Louis.

Like I've stated though, I think that Max was going to Very Likely Lose the rematch, no matter what his approach or mindset would've been. He was simply a proverbial has-been by this point in time. He knew that he wasn't the same anymore and took the bout for the main reasons of Spiting and Embarrassing Hitler, and getting that Lofty Paycheck.
Max would've Gladly Forfeited this bout if the trade-off benefit had been to just simply get his Beloved Wife back though.

People just don't realize the inside scoops with these things. I do though, because of that soon thereafter banned tv-movie that I saw in the early 1980's, and also by way of clearly seeing that Max was basically obviously positioning himself, alongside the ropes, in a way that profoundly said, "Here, go ahead and Hit me wherever and as hard as you want".
Boxing is often a Brutal and Sceevy business, and it sometimes has certain intricate things attached to the approaches and outcomes.

Do you remember the name of the film? It was a documentary? Or was it Ring of Passion?

[AngryGoon38]

I'm going to need to read this in at least one newspaper to have any validity to such a claim.
First thing you learn as a researcher an option isn't a fact.

It was thoroughly documented in a tv movie back in the early 1980's.

They obviously promptly Banned the movie from Ever Being Shown Again.

Probably Burned every last copy of the movie as well.

Wokeism was already well into effect by the early 1980's.

They didn't want to dare undermine This Accomplishment/Victory of Joe Louis.

Like I've stated though, I think that Max was going to Very Likely Lose the rematch, no matter what his approach or mindset would've been. He was simply a proverbial has-been by this point in time. He knew that he wasn't the same anymore and took the bout for the main reasons of Spiting and Embarrassing Hitler, and getting that Lofty Paycheck.
Max would've Gladly Forfeited this bout if the trade-off benefit had been to just simply get his Beloved Wife back though.

People just don't realize the inside scoops with these things. I do though, because of that soon thereafter banned tv-movie that I saw in the early 1980's, and also by way of clearly seeing that Max was basically obviously positioning himself, alongside the ropes, in a way that profoundly said, "Here, go ahead and Hit me wherever and as hard as you want".
Boxing is often a Brutal and Sceevy business, and it sometimes has certain intricate things attached to the approaches and outcomes.

Do you remember the name of the film? It was a documentary? Or was it Ring of Passion?

Ring of Passion. Yeah, That might've been the movie. I'm not really truly certain though. I saw it in either 81 or 82, so I was 11 or 12. So long ago, but I distinctly remember that Schmelling's wife was kidnapped by Hitler's Stormtroopers, and this Really Broke Max, and made him all that much more resentful towards Hitler.

[HomicideHenry]

Let's break it down...

@ 2:33 Louis wobbles Schmeling who grabs the ropes so not to fall, and Louis continues to blast him until the referee breaks it up. People in the audience could hear Schmeling scream, "Oh no!", from the pain as Louis hit him in the back.

@ 2:49 Louis drops Schmeling with a dynamite right hand. The referee is purely incompetent. Schmeling gets up at the count of 2.

@ 2:59 Schmeling goes down again. Gets up quickly. Referee wipes off his gloves.

@ 3:06 Schmeling hits the deck once more. It's all over.

A dive my ass. As for the Hitler story, I don't buy into the theory Schmeling would dive out of hatred for Hitler. Even if Hitler held his wife hostage, that would only motivate you not to lose out of fear your wife would end up murdered or something.

Louis kicked his ass. End of story.