How would Calzaghe fare against Canelo ?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Canelo's raw power would overwhelm Joe , slapsy had speed and skills , capable of beating Canel , but Canelo's raw power , strenght and good timing would wear Joe out , Canelo whilst not being a devastating one punch ko artist , must hit hard with everything he throws ,you would have to say this , simply because everyone he fights he worries ,

For me a better fight harder to call would be Joe and Billy Joe Saunders ,, Calazgie winning though

I'm astonished frankly, that you think that way.

Canelo has power, but not above anything Joe had already faced, and nobody ever came anywhere near close to stopping Joe.

Calzaghe faced some KO specialists at 168, and prevailed every time.

He walked directly onto a monster shot from Byron Mitchell, who was extremely heavy handed, and then got up, and proceeded to kick his arse. I don't think I've ever seen another fighter rise after such a heavy knockdown, and get straight back to it.

I don't see a scenario where either Calzaghe or Canelo overwhelm their opponent, both were too good, Canelo is underrated defensively, and has good movement, and is an intelligent fighter who uses counterpunching and effective aggression.

A close fight, Calzaghe wins by a couple of rounds, after losing some of the early rounds.

Calzaghe was always vulnerable against good counterpunchers, and was at his most impressive when fighters came straight to him, where his superior conditioning, shot selection and handspeed gave him a significant advantage - he also had incredible stamina and a very good chin, and even better powers of recovery.

Canelo would have picked his spots, but I think he would have been just a little off the pace, and would have lost too many middle rounds to pick out a win.

[a force]

I think it would be very similar to the Kessler fight. I think it might be even after about 8 rounds & then I’d expect Joe to win the last few rounds & take a 116-112 type decision.

[olij999]

The problem with how to assess Calzaghe is that for most of his career he was seriously underrated by some fans, whereas ever since the Jeff Lacy fight he has been significantly overrated. Plainly he was a very, very good fighter, but I just don't get the way that these days some would pick him to beat everything short of King Kong (and in fact, they'd probably maintain he'd outspeed the big hairy fella himself). I think he'd give Canelo a very hard fight, but can't see it as an easy win for either fighter.

And the parameters need to be a bit realistic. There is no way that, as the A-side, Alvarez is ever going to Cardiff or indeed anywhere outside the US or Mexico - this isn't ever going to be a Saldivar-Winstone situation. So question should assume that fight takes place on Mexican Independence Day in one of those countries. At that point, Calzaghe's chances of getting a decision become slender.

[jamesmcdonnell]

The problem with how to assess Calzaghe is that for most of his career he was seriously underrated by some fans, whereas ever since the Jeff Lacy fight he has been significantly overrated. Plainly he was a very, very good fighter, but I just don't get the way that these days some would pick him to beat everything short of King Kong (and in fact, they'd probably maintain he'd outspeed the big hairy fella himself). I think he'd give Canelo a very hard fight, but can't see it as an easy win for either fighter.

And the parameters need to be a bit realistic. There is no way that, as the A-side, Alvarez is ever going to Cardiff or indeed anywhere outside the US or Mexico - this isn't ever going to be a Saldivar-Winstone situation. So question should assume that fight takes place on Mexican Independence Day in one of those countries. At that point, Calzaghe's chances of getting a decision become slender.

Indeed, a very reasnable post.

[CaptainSpacerod]

What was Joe’s best win ? Kessler

Styles make fights but levels are important too

Maybe - but Kessler was a very good fighter.

Beat Froch.

What is Canelo’s best?

I suppose you'd have to say it was the 2nd GGG fight even though many people think he didn't win it.

At 168 he's not beaten anyone as good as Kessler i don't think. If he fights and beats Benavidez next cinco de mayo i think that would outrank Joe's Kessler victory.

It's hard to gauge really as Joe was obviously at 168 throughout his peak years whereas it could be argued that Canelo was already coming down the other side of the mountain by the time he campaigned regularly at 168

[JamesPhilips]

These were/are both fighters who can adapt mid-fight and adjust to figure out opponents. Something that separates the top level fighters from the next level down.
I'd be inclined to favour Calzaghe due to his natural size, but one of his hardest fights was against Reid who has a very similar stature to Canelo. Reid was bouncing right hands off Calzaghe's head in what proved to be a much harder fight than expected. Reid was rough and ready in that fight though, and that approach might work better against Calzaghe than the more measured approach that Canelo would probably bring. His win over Lacy was brilliant, but also appeared to expose Lacy as being a bit of a one dimensional banger. He's not comparable to Canelo.

I don't see a stoppage in this one due to Canelo's tight defensive skills (he does have great movement to slip punches) and Calzaghe's chin. I rewatched his win over Byron Mitchell the other night and that punch he took would've left most unable to continue. Instead, he got back up, fought fire with fire, and took Mitchell out. He was a dangerous fighter when tagged and I could see one (or a few) of Canelo's overhand rights landing, possibly a flash knockdown.

I don't really see any weaknesses exposed in Canelo with the Mayweather and Bivol defeats. The first was against an ATG with sublime skills. The latter against a bigger technician with very good fundamentals that knew what he had to do to beat Canelo, stylistically wrong.

I think it would be similar to Canelo's fights against GGG. Very close rounds, unable to separate two top level fighters and either a majority decision one way (possibly Calzaghe on workrate) or, if in Vegas, 119-111 UD Canelo.

[margaret thatcher]

canelo isnt a huge puncher, he wears guys down with heavy precise hands, but he's not laying out top guys 1 hit. look at all that ryder took. he could drop joe, but he'd have to beat him over 12

[coneye]

canelo isnt a huge puncher, he wears guys down with heavy precise hands, but he's not laying out top guys 1 hit. look at all that ryder took. he could drop joe, but he'd have to beat him over 12

I think there lies the difference , Canelo obviously is a very heavy handed guy , Ok not pone punch heavy but like you said it wears you down , Joe had a good chin no doubt , but Canelos is rock solid , i just look at it in levels and too me Canelo is a level above , ,

[Lenny Cravats]

There isn't any opponent on Calzaghe's record that you wouldn't also pick Canelo to beat handily.

I could see my opinion going back and forth so probably wouldn't commit either way on this mythical match up.

Robin Reid?

Reid was very, very good for a while.

Canelo still hammers him, though.

In choosing a winner between Canelo and Calzaghe, I'd have to go Canelo. Joe's volume would cause some serious problems, but Canelo would hot clean enough to win rounds.
I'd think it would be a 7-5 decision either way, so the winner is the one with home advantage.

[margaret thatcher]

maybe canelo wins a close decision. that is certainly feasible. level above though? not seeing it

[jamesmcdonnell]

What was Joe’s best win ? Kessler

Styles make fights but levels are important too

Maybe - but Kessler was a very good fighter.

Beat Froch.

What is Canelo’s best?

I suppose you'd have to say it was the 2nd GGG fight even though many people think he didn't win it.

At 168 he's not beaten anyone as good as Kessler i don't think. If he fights and beats Benavidez next cinco de mayo i think that would outrank Joe's Kessler victory.

It's hard to gauge really as Joe was obviously at 168 throughout his peak years whereas it could be argued that Canelo was already coming down the other side of the mountain by the time he campaigned regularly at 168

Yes, we will see whether he can prove he is the man at 168. A win over charlo doesn't prove anything, as Charlo had zero resume at the weight or even 160.

The win over Kovalev flattered to deceive, he looked like a monster at 175, but Bivol dispelled the myth. Canelo doesn't have a single win as yet at 168, that suggests he would beat Calzaghe, or Kessler for that matter. BJS? Come on, we all know that Saunders wasn't a real 168 lber and was never top dog at any weight he campaigned at.

If he decides to stick around and turn back his next main contenders at 168, we can say he is a genuine 168 lb champ.

[jamesmcdonnell]

There isn't any opponent on Calzaghe's record that you wouldn't also pick Canelo to beat handily.

I could see my opinion going back and forth so probably wouldn't commit either way on this mythical match up.

Robin Reid?

Reid was very, very good for a while.

Canelo still hammers him, though.

In choosing a winner between Canelo and Calzaghe, I'd have to go Canelo. Joe's volume would cause some serious problems, but Canelo would hot clean enough to win rounds.
I'd think it would be a 7-5 decision either way, so the winner is the one with home advantage.

Hammers him?

I don't see it, in his prime Reid was awkward, incredibly physically strong, and had an absolutely rock solid chin.

Reid didn't get done over until he was some way past his best, and didn't even have a proper training camp - he was training at the swimming pool and his hotel room for Lacy, which was completely nuts.

I'd have given Reid a good chance of winning, like I said, we really haven't seen Canelo in with an elite 168 lb fighter in their prime.

[SamWise72]

My question, and it is a question, is this. Did we ever see Joe get hit to the body like Canelo can?

[coneye]

My question, and it is a question, is this. Did we ever see Joe get hit to the body like Canelo can?

probably not , I think its more a case of British elevating there home grown heroes to a much higher level than they were Joe to me while he was a tremendous boxer , never fought enough fights at absolute top level he had good scalps but i liken him to Hatton , good scalps has well but fell short at the highest level ,, what was Joes reason , he was scared of flying ,

[Monzon83]

I’ll never forgive Calslappy for his classless showboating against the shot RJJ.

Prime RJJ would have beat him with one hand.

[JamesPhilips]

I’ll never forgive Calslappy for his classless showboating against the shot RJJ.

Prime RJJ would have beat him with one hand.

Really? But you’ll happily forgive ROID Jones who juiced throughout his career and even failed a test? Calzaghe was 100% a clean fighter and I have no problem with the showboating. Roid Jones used to humiliate and clown plenty of his opponents so he got a taste of his own medicine.

[Frostieballs]

Robin Reid?

Reid was very, very good for a while.

Canelo still hammers him, though.

In choosing a winner between Canelo and Calzaghe, I'd have to go Canelo. Joe's volume would cause some serious problems, but Canelo would hot clean enough to win rounds.
I'd think it would be a 7-5 decision either way, so the winner is the one with home advantage.

Hammers him?

I don't see it, in his prime Reid was awkward, incredibly physically strong, and had an absolutely rock solid chin.

Reid didn't get done over until he was some way past his best, and didn't even have a proper training camp - he was training at the swimming pool and his hotel room for Lacy, which was completely nuts.

I'd have given Reid a good chance of winning, like I said, we really haven't seen Canelo in with an elite 168 lb fighter in their prime.

Reid was a very under rated fighter in his prime. Great chin as well.

[coneye]

Think maybee us older guys were really spoilt by the fighters in the past , the days when the best fought the best , no ducking , no diving , no we must keep the 0 at all costs

Nowadays whenever discusions / debates , whatever you want to call them pop up about boxers from recent eras. WE hear a lot of , yes but he did'nt fight the best , yes he ducked everyone in there prime , ect ect . I think we were spoilt , Bring back , Hearns , Hagler , Leonard and Duran , Bring back Foreman , Norton , Frazier , Ali ,

Aaaargh the good old days , now we have Conor Benn , Tyson Fury

[jamesmcdonnell]

I’ll never forgive Calslappy for his classless showboating against the shot RJJ.

Prime RJJ would have beat him with one hand.

Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for Calzaghe. Spent years ducking the US top dogs, apparently because of a fear of flying - though in fact, it was his self confessed pathalogical fear of losing - and openly criticised other fighters who had taken on Roy Jones - in his own autobiography, and said he would never fight a guy who he admitted in his prime would have whupped him - then decided to fly to do exactly that.

Jones was unstoppable at 168, almost godlike - it's a shame he moved up to heavyweight then back down, because he was never the same again, whatever he did to cut weight to fight tarver ruined him for good. Maybe it was coincidence, and father time caught up with him, but I've never seen another fighter decline almost overnight like that.

[leejonesjnr]

I really liked watching Calzaghe and he was great… BUT…
Alvarez would probably lose three or four and then maul him like a bear for every second of every round from then on.
I was there the night he really ‘came out’ against Lacy and the only occasions I ever wanted him to lose were against Richie (hometown hero who later became my trainer and manager) and RJJ (all time hero). Not Calzaghes fault but both men were no longer near their best when he boxed them.

[Coco]

I really liked watching Calzaghe and he was great… BUT…
Alvarez would probably lose three or four and then maul him like a bear for every second of every round from then on.
I was there the night he really ‘came out’ against Lacy and the only occasions I ever wanted him to lose were against Richie (hometown hero who later became my trainer and manager) and RJJ (all time hero). Not Calzaghes fault but both men were no longer near their best when he boxed them.

I was there for the Woodhall fight and thought it was much closer than reported as I felt Ritchie stole a good few rounds from the outside before JC got to him.

[polecateddy]

I really liked watching Calzaghe and he was great… BUT…
Alvarez would probably lose three or four and then maul him like a bear for every second of every round from then on.
I was there the night he really ‘came out’ against Lacy and the only occasions I ever wanted him to lose were against Richie (hometown hero who later became my trainer and manager) and RJJ (all time hero). Not Calzaghes fault but both men were no longer near their best when he boxed them.

I was there for the Woodhall fight and thought it was much closer than reported as I felt Ritchie stole a good few rounds from the outside before JC got to him.

Woodhall said something afterwards along the lines of Joe was very clever in there, moving a half step back or something so Woodhall often felt he was missing and overreaching. Considering Woodhall, who was pretty good on his day, prided himself on fitness, he was knackered when stopped. To be fair, if Canelo studied the Robin Reid fight a lot, he might be copying those right hands!

…little known fact - Woodhall body-doubled Brad Pitt in the Snatch fight scenes!

[Coco]

I really liked watching Calzaghe and he was great… BUT…
Alvarez would probably lose three or four and then maul him like a bear for every second of every round from then on.
I was there the night he really ‘came out’ against Lacy and the only occasions I ever wanted him to lose were against Richie (hometown hero who later became my trainer and manager) and RJJ (all time hero). Not Calzaghes fault but both men were no longer near their best when he boxed them.

I was there for the Woodhall fight and thought it was much closer than reported as I felt Ritchie stole a good few rounds from the outside before JC got to him.

Woodhall said something afterwards along the lines of Joe was very clever in there, moving a half step back or something so Woodhall often felt he was missing and overreaching. Considering Woodhall, who was pretty good on his day, prided himself on fitness, he was knackered when stopped.

Obviously JC did a top job.

Woodhall was taller, had more reach, quality operator but those little adjustments that JC always made were why he was a great fighter.

[polecateddy]

I was there for the Woodhall fight and thought it was much closer than reported as I felt Ritchie stole a good few rounds from the outside before JC got to him.

Woodhall said something afterwards along the lines of Joe was very clever in there, moving a half step back or something so Woodhall often felt he was missing and overreaching. Considering Woodhall, who was pretty good on his day, prided himself on fitness, he was knackered when stopped.

Obviously JC did a top job.

Woodhall was taller, had more reach, quality operator but those little adjustments that JC always made were why he was a great fighter.

Obviously he did a lot of road work on fierce Welsh hills, but yeah he was a bit magic in the second half of championship fights.

[leejonesjnr]

I really liked watching Calzaghe and he was great… BUT…
Alvarez would probably lose three or four and then maul him like a bear for every second of every round from then on.
I was there the night he really ‘came out’ against Lacy and the only occasions I ever wanted him to lose were against Richie (hometown hero who later became my trainer and manager) and RJJ (all time hero). Not Calzaghes fault but both men were no longer near their best when he boxed them.

I was there for the Woodhall fight and thought it was much closer than reported as I felt Ritchie stole a good few rounds from the outside before JC got to him.

…little known fact - Woodhall body-doubled Brad Pitt in the Snatch fight scenes!

Little known? Noooooope.