Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Brutu wrote:There is a newspaper article from 21.January 1954
from Miami Florida reporting on the results of the
Charlie Norkus vs Danny Nardico fight.
Norkus had knocked out Nardico in round nine.
Shortly afterwards a very disappointed Lou Viscusi essentially challenged Charlie Norkus to fight Cleveland Williams next
in a nationally televised fight,and was going to contact Jim Norris and the IBF
to have it arranged.It didnt happen of course.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fF ... ,392630&dq
Thanks for the info Mr. Norkus.
Im not sure if you had read this posting and link earlier in this thread,
so im bumping it up.
CNorkusJr
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1460
Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 03:28

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by CNorkusJr »

Brutu wrote:
Brutu wrote:There is a newspaper article from 21.January 1954
from Miami Florida reporting on the results of the
Charlie Norkus vs Danny Nardico fight.
Norkus had knocked out Nardico in round nine.
Shortly afterwards a very disappointed Lou Viscusi essentially challenged Charlie Norkus to fight Cleveland Williams next
in a nationally televised fight,and was going to contact Jim Norris and the IBF
to have it arranged.It didnt happen of course.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fF ... ,392630&dq
Thanks for the info Mr. Norkus.
Im not sure if you had read this posting and link earlier in this thread,
so im bumping it up.
Thank You for the link and post. I did scan over the thread and must of missed it.
The newspapers I have here are NY articles with just one mentioning "Big Cat Williams" as a potential opponent. I want to point out a few things.
Your linked article is from a Miami newspaper. I can tell you that Nardico carried all the weight with the press going into that first fight, and being the hometown hero (Tampa is a few short miles), was getting the needed word for his proposed fight with Marciano. You can tell by the language of the article that Viscusi had it downplayed a bit hoping it wouldnt hurt his career much. Basically, Marciano was through with a Nardico title shot after that fight. Both camps knew, so Viscusi figured he might as well push for Williams and Norkus. ** The first Norkus vs Nardico was not televised. It was however recorded on film with no sound professionally.
When the press saw the fight from the Auditorium, right after, they were on the phones to report the blood-thirsty battle. The article was right stating it was the greatest Aud. battle up to that point, even though the hometown boy lost. Hence, my fathers ring for spoiler.Nobody saw the fight on tape for a couple of months after. Thats why
Williams was brought into the article by Viscusi. But the written word and still pix were good enough for the rematch making.

When Norris and Dundee talked on the phone, there was only one conclusion they could come to, a instant rematch on TV. The press was clamouring for it, the 2 month build-up for the rematch was a promoters heaven and the IBC hung their hats on fights like that.The two camps approached the Florida Boxing Comm and asked if a 3 knockdown rule can be issued for this fight. (Apparently there was none in Florida). The article was again right in stating that both sides didnt want to go through the carnage of the first fight. The Florida Comm denied the request.

The first time the Miami Beach Aud sold out was for the Norkus-Nardico rematch AND it was carried on TV. Unfortunately, the fight didnt carry the verocity of the first, but showed my fathers domination of the "never should have moved up in wt." Nardico. This fight was strictly for money it could generate from the paid crowd and TV revenue and had no bearing on the rankings. No doubt a third fight was in order if Nardico won. These two fights solidified,in Marciano's eyes, that my father was his lead man in feeling out others.
All in all, it comes down to dollars and cents, and where the most money can be generated from.
I think you guys already know, being around the sport as long as you have, take caution in what you read in newspapers. Take note of where the paper is from and where the fighters are from. All mgrs. had big pockets for the press and if a writer was showed some green, he can soften a loss, or make a 3-34 boxer look like a contender.
Also, like Cat Williams here, throw his name around and hopefully the IBC or somebody will take notice.
Cat Williams was never a player for Marciano at that particular time. Later on he was a major player for heavy title. (late fifties on).
scallum
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 1083
Joined: 29 Jul 2011, 10:06

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by scallum »

Brutu wrote:For some reason this always struck me as a bizarre photo with the expressions on everyones faces here considering.
from JET magazine December.01.1966

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=kb ... pg=PA32&dq
Those facial expressions are strange to say the least especially considering from Jet magazine. The officer dude looks like he wants to shoot him again, Willams just sitting there with big smile on his face in 1960s
BoxBuzz
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 29847
Joined: 07 Jun 2005, 16:37

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by BoxBuzz »

Looks like Williams is sayin...."don't make me laugh with that "bad ass" look of yours officer, You shot me, and trust me, I can still kick your ass in my sleep".
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Following the Sonny Moore bout was Cleveland Williams vs Tod Herring
June.18.1966 Sam Houston Coliseum Houston Texas.
It was on the closed-circuit preliminary to Ernie Terrell vs Doug Jones main event.
Williams record going into the fight:64-5-1
Herring 26-5-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXNxTq9K2EM

BTW
Does anyone here believe that if Mike Tyson was as naturally polite and courteous to his opponents as Cleve Williams seems to have been,
would Mike Tyson have had the appeal to the masses who were following him had back in the 1980's and 1990's?
BoxBuzz
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 29847
Joined: 07 Jun 2005, 16:37

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by BoxBuzz »

Nope....Mikes attitude got a lot of people interested.

Now here's where we need some of the experts to chime in as to just how "washed up" Willams was by this time. In this fight, it does look like he may be doing the laundry....or taking the trash out. But he don't look like he's down and out to me.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Here is one boxing experts opinion at the time.
That of Ernie Terrell the then WBA Heavyweight Champion
From a newspaper article for UPI dated 02.November.1966

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Sy ... 4585601&dq
CNorkusJr
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1460
Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 03:28

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by CNorkusJr »

Brutu wrote:Following the Sonny Moore bout was Cleveland Williams vs Tod Herring
June.18.1966 Sam Houston Coliseum Houston Texas.
It was on the closed-circuit preliminary to Ernie Terrell vs Doug Jones main event.
Williams record going into the fight:64-5-1
Herring 26-5-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXNxTq9K2EM

BTW
Does anyone here believe that if Mike Tyson was as naturally polite and courteous to his opponents as Cleve Williams seems to have been,
would Mike Tyson have had the appeal to the masses who were following him had back in the 1980's and 1990's?
I dont know about that. If you go back to the 50's, promo pictures of major bouts showed both fighters either shaking hands, or smiling at each other, and then let their fists do their talking in the ring.

Lets look at the Ali-Frazier frenzy. Ali taunting Frazier to no end, going to his training camp and irratating all around. Then the Gorilla doll thing. Do you think that endeared Ali to many fans.? If anything ,Frazier had alot more people wanting to see him knock Ali on his butt.
The old adage-you get more with sugar,than you do with vinegar. Look at all the old Archie Moore talks. They never insulted their opponents.
Outside a few rarities, Ali might have been one of the first starting with Liston. By the time Tyson came around, because of his brash and the meaness of his style, alot of people wanted to see him get his. No one ever expected it to be Oliver McCall.

The bottom line is the bouts themselves.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

here are a couple of article about Ernie Terrell who even years later discribes Cleveland Williams the toughest and strongest fighter that he had ever fought.
(The two fights also reportedly changed Terrell's fighting style from then on)

http://www.news.google.com/newspapers?i ... ,539251&dq


http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/art ... t-champion
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

--Flashback--

It was 50 years ago Today.........
April.13.1963-Philadelphia PA.
Ernie Terrell vs. Cleveland Williams ( II)
The ABC-TV Fight of the Week.
10 Rounds
(abridged version,running time 10 minutes)


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xshktk ... iams_sport
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

newspaper-Tuesday-September.21.1971-Houston Texas.

"Confident Jack O'Halloran with a 20-pound weight advantage, promised to
"Beat a Tatoo" on the head of aging Cleveland Williams (38)
and win their 10-round heavyweight fight tonight in the Astrodome.
O'Halloran a 6-6,245 lbs,28 year old said he would knock out the
6-3,225 lb Williams in the Fifth round".
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

-Flashback-to earlier that Summer of 1971.

On July.15.1971 World Heavyweight champion Joe Frazier did a rare
exhibition in Houston Texas.
He did 2 rounds each with Cleveland Williams
(who had challenged Frazier the day before to the exhibition without them using any head gear)
and then Frazier went two rounds with former Texas Christian football player
James Helwig,who managed to bloody the champs nose in it)

Here is a link to a wire photo of the exhibition
(scroll down thread in link to see it)


http://boxingforum24.com/showthread.php ... 6&page=111
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

-Flashback-

November.17.1971
The Houston Astrodome
Cleveland Williams(63-17-1) vs George Chuvalo.
1O rounds
on the closed-circuit broadcast of Muhammad Ali vs Buster Mathis.
(abridged version-running time 6:30 minutes)

http://www.dailymotion.com/us/relevance ... deo=xidvzt

BTW this approx. 7 minute video footage appears to be time compressed to me.
If George Chuvalo was as fast in person as he looks here,
he may just have been the heavyweight champ at one point.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

When Cleveland Williams retired (a forced retirement?)after 92 professional bouts,
including 58 KO's,whch at one point in 1968 tied and then surpassed the then record of Joe Louis's knockout record of 54* knockouts
(The Leslie Borden bout was William's 75th pro fight).
(scroll down this page a little to read)

http://www.books.google.com/books?id=bD ... pg=PA51&dq

(*Boxrec lists Joe Louis's record at 52 knockouts)

One wonders why after the Davila bout that Williams didn't just lower the bar some in the boxing twilight years of his career and didn't fight on a more local level against
some ham and eggers to make it to 100
professional bouts?
Particularly since he once said boxing was all he knew to do and was still in the boxing business
in early 1973(sparring partner to Joe Bugner).
Watching George Chuvalo wack him around the lower body and hips were the .357 magnum
slug was still reportedly embedded probably didn't improve his health.
How many other professional heavyweight boxers record (who began their career after WWII)
come close or surpass Cleveland Williams 92 pro fights?
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Going into their first fight(Williams and Davila)May 1970.
The newspaper gave Davila's record as 10-13.
So one would strongly suspect that earlier programme you mentioned
was just a typo(s) I guess.unless Davila had a whole bunch of fights in South America that the boxing establishment or RING magazine could never confirm.
Roberta Davila sort of reminded me of the Leon Spinks of South America.
Maybe he went wild in their second fight and accidently thumbed Williams or something like that.
as far as locating a newspaper article concerning their second bout.
I think the Denver Post archives only goes back to the 1980's,
but will keep looking.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Cleveland Williams makes the cover of November 1966 issue of RING magazine.
(Nat Fleisher editor-in-chief)
(this issue was probably on the newsstands in early October 1966)


http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news/ ... /158471334
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Link to article from SPORTS ILLUSTRATED November.16.1966

You Watch Out Ali!
(4 pages)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Fun Filled Fact # 40


George Foreman recalls and remembers the hardest punchers that he had ever faced,
including sparring with Cleveland"Big Cat" Williams .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmG_gR576EA

When George Foreman was still an amateur, Olympic boxing coach Robert Pappy Gault had Foreman spar with Cleveland Williams in preparation in late September/early October 1968
at the pre-Olympic training grounds at Denver Colorado to go to Mexico City for the 1968 Olympics the following month.along with Dick Sadler had used Cleveland Williams now and then when Foreman had turned pro in 1969.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

-FLASH BACK TO 1970-
-Mac Foster remembers Cleveland Williams-

In this SI article about Mac Foster from the January.05.1970 issue of Sports Illustrated.
Mac Foster recalls his two fights with Cleveland Williams.
In the first fight in Fresno ,Williams had busted Foster's eardrum with a punch.
in their second fight in Houston Williams almost had Foster out on his feet
in the third round following a delivery of a number of Pulpwood punches.
(3 pages)


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Il Duce wrote:Saturday Night - September 13, 1969

Selland Arena - Fresno, California

(Capacity; 10,000) - Attendance; 1800

#8 WBA - Mac Foster ~ 19-0-0 {19 KO's) ~ Age; 27 years, 3 months ~ Height; 6' 2" ~ Weight; 216 lbs.
vs.
'NR' - Cleveland Williams ~ 71-8-1 {55 KO's} ~ Age; 36 years, 3 months ~ Height; 6' 3" ~ Weight; 219 lbs.

Mac Foster, the 'power-punching' West-Coast Heavyweight is looking to stay busy, while waiting for a bout with
former Heavyweight Champion - Sonny Liston, whom he has called out. The boxing pundits are still not quite
sure on Mac Foster, as his record is loaded with KO's over 'washed up fighters' or 'Class-C trial-horses'.
The word out there is that he can 'punch',,,,,,,, but can he 'fight'.

The 'Big Cat', is coming off of a 'brutal' {KO Loss, May 1969} to Al Jones, and an earlier {November 1968}
10-Round Decision Loss to Bob Cleroux. On paper, this bout makes no sense for Cleveland's continuing career,
but the 'fight purse' of $7500 is too hard to pass up at this stage of his career.

General Overview;

Mac Foster has to win, and has to be impressive over a 'pretty much' worn out former Heavyweight Contender.
A bout with Sonny Liston is in the works, possibly for December 1969, or early 1970.

The 'Big Cat' is in a 'no lose situation'. An 'upset win', and Cleveland could be right back in the Heavyweight picture
despite his recent set-backs.

The Fight;

There was none. Mac Foster bombarded the 'Big Cat' with 'lefts-and-rights' from the start of the 'opening bell'.

After battering the older Williams in both the 1st and 2nd Rounds, Mac slowed the pace in Round 3, and
cruised as not to burn himself out. Cleveland was able to mount a minor offense, and did land a few decent
punches that forced Foster to hold briefly.

But the Fresno Heavyweight 'picked-up-the-pace' mid-way thru Round 4, and rattled Cleveland with hard
left hooks and right hands.

In Round 5, there was little doubt of the outcome, as Foster smashed the 'Big Cat' with a hail-storm of
lefts and rights, driving him to the canvas for a '9-Count'. After rising, Cleveland was met with a barrage
of punches, as Foster was 'hitting-him-at-will', forcing Referee - Mario Ducchini to call a halt to the one-sided
beating at 1:35 of Round 5.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... ejbQRw_cCg
bumped for previous post.
I wonder in which round the Big Cat had ruptured Foster's eardrum?
Sounds like it may have been possibly in the second or third round in reading this.
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

-Flashback-
-1959-
Former flyweight and now fight manager P.L"Pinkie"George
decides to see how what his new heavyweight prospect from Argentina
Alex"Lavo"Lavorante is made of ,by having him go a few rounds
in a "private workout session "with Big Cat Cleveland Williams.


http://www.news.google.com/newspapers?n ... 98,5145803
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

from a newspaper article from November.11.1976.

Eddie Brooks remembers knocking down Muhammad Ali in his training camp and his
fight with Cleveland Williams(or leading up to it anyway).
April.14.1970 in Milwaukee WI.


http://www.news.google.com/newspapers?i ... 2044876&dq
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

-Flashback 1954-
A Cleveland Williams unofficial knockout of a top contender.

in this National newspaper article for Cleveland Williams published October.30.1957.
It mentions that earlier in 1954
Cleveland Williams had knocked out Bob"The Grinder" Baker
(wearing headgear and using 16 oz. gloves) at the gym in Miami Florida
3 days before Baker was scheduled to fight Archie Moore.
(Bob Baker fought Archie Moore March.9.1954 in Miami Beach)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Qa ... 6648152&dq
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

That previous link to the october.30.1957 newspaper article mentions that
Cleveland Williams was to be on a National boxing tv show December.11.1957 for the
Babe Didrikson Zaharias Cancer Fund.
Apparently he was scratched as it was Yvon Durelle vs Jerry Luedee
who were the main event for the ABC-TV Wednesday Night fight from
tampa Florida.Although interesting in looking at the fight card that night here at boxrec,
a Claude Williams,a middleweight from Augusta Georgia fighting out of Tampa was also on it.
Could Claude Williams have been Cleveland Williams brother or cousin?
Brutu
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 3273
Joined: 15 Jan 2005, 23:07

Re: Big Cat......Fun Filled Fact #37

Post by Brutu »

Cleveland Williams vs Frankie Daniels(I)
December.3.1957- Miami Beach FL.

pre-fight news
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=vS ... 5872583&dq

and a newspaper article about the results of the fight,
including a ring action photo at the top of the article

http://www.news.google.com/newspapers?i ... 1700547&dq
Post Reply