Four Kings on Amazon Prime

[Controversial]

In hindsight it irks me slightly just how much credit benn and eubank still get. It’s overblown in relation to what they actually achieved. Don’t get me wrong, benn was as exciting as it gets and I loved the big nights, but ultimately they were both happy being big fish in a small pond. World class domestic title holders if you will. At no stage could either make a claim to be the best in Britain at any time (with graham, Watson and Collins around) let alone the world. Eubanks career is looked on with rose tinted glasses, he served up some absolute stinkers vs sub par opponents.

Yes I agree, Benn tested himself more than Eubank though and at least he went to America and Italy plus fought McClellan who no one wanted to fight. Eubank had a lot of under par performances and even admitted that Schommer deserved the decision. Eubank was one of those fighters that needed the big fight to perform at his best though. It’s a shame Eubank didn’t take on any big names from the US, he was as tough as they come.

[Frostieballs]

In hindsight it irks me slightly just how much credit benn and eubank still get. It’s overblown in relation to what they actually achieved. Don’t get me wrong, benn was as exciting as it gets and I loved the big nights, but ultimately they were both happy being big fish in a small pond. World class domestic title holders if you will. At no stage could either make a claim to be the best in Britain at any time (with graham, Watson and Collins around) let alone the world. Eubanks career is looked on with rose tinted glasses, he served up some absolute stinkers vs sub par opponents.

Yes I agree, Benn tested himself more than Eubank though and at least he went to America and Italy plus fought McClellan who no one wanted to fight. Eubank had a lot of under par performances and even admitted that Schommer deserved the decision. Eubank was one of those fighters that needed the big fight to perform at his best though. It’s a shame Eubank didn’t take on any big names from the US, he was as tough as they come.

I think what Eubank did in his last few fights was probably the bravest time of his career!

[Controversial]

In hindsight it irks me slightly just how much credit benn and eubank still get. It’s overblown in relation to what they actually achieved. Don’t get me wrong, benn was as exciting as it gets and I loved the big nights, but ultimately they were both happy being big fish in a small pond. World class domestic title holders if you will. At no stage could either make a claim to be the best in Britain at any time (with graham, Watson and Collins around) let alone the world. Eubanks career is looked on with rose tinted glasses, he served up some absolute stinkers vs sub par opponents.

Yes I agree, Benn tested himself more than Eubank though and at least he went to America and Italy plus fought McClellan who no one wanted to fight. Eubank had a lot of under par performances and even admitted that Schommer deserved the decision. Eubank was one of those fighters that needed the big fight to perform at his best though. It’s a shame Eubank didn’t take on any big names from the US, he was as tough as they come.

I think what Eubank did in his last few fights was probably the bravest time of his career!

Indeed, especially moving up to CW!

[Steveh583]

In hindsight it irks me slightly just how much credit benn and eubank still get. It’s overblown in relation to what they actually achieved. Don’t get me wrong, benn was as exciting as it gets and I loved the big nights, but ultimately they were both happy being big fish in a small pond. World class domestic title holders if you will. At no stage could either make a claim to be the best in Britain at any time (with graham, Watson and Collins around) let alone the world. Eubanks career is looked on with rose tinted glasses, he served up some absolute stinkers vs sub par opponents.

Yes I agree, Benn tested himself more than Eubank though and at least he went to America and Italy plus fought McClellan who no one wanted to fight. Eubank had a lot of under par performances and even admitted that Schommer deserved the decision. Eubank was one of those fighters that needed the big fight to perform at his best though. It’s a shame Eubank didn’t take on any big names from the US, he was as tough as they come.

I think what Eubank did in his last few fights was probably the bravest time of his career!

Yeah but even that was cos he was basically out of options and needed the money. When the gravy train was rolling he was happy to feast on nobodies

[deadpan]

Imagine the forum stick Eubank would have received if the internet was around in the midst of his Essett/Amaral/Close era. Tedious fights that peaked at the ring walk and dubious decisions a-plenty against barely Euro level opponents. Don't get me started on Dan Sherry!

[qatarm]

It was worth a watch, but the faux commentary from Paul Dempsey was a bit annoying (to me at any rate) and the narrative that Johnny Nelson was pushing that there was underlying racism in boxing doesn't chime with how I experienced these fights at the time - just admiration of great fighters at the peak of their powers.

Lewis, as great as he undoubtedly is, doesn't come across that well, but perhaps it's becuase I have a soft spot for Bruno, whose achievements are often overlooked from that era. He did win the world championship legitimately and was a serious fighter, who just happened to fall short on occasion. And he gave Lewis hell for half a dozen rounds or so.

Good review. I binged the series last night and agree with all your comments.

The Dempsey commentary was awkward and unconvincing.

The whole racial overtone felt unnecessary, for me the piece would stand on its own merit as a documentary about the rivalries without having that agenda thrust upon the viewer. Nelson is ultimately more qualified than I to comment on the boxing scene of the early 90’s but I don’t recall there being this tension in the sport at that time.
More than that I found Nelson’s narration in general overbearing.

Lewis didn’t come across well, he seems to lack humility in retirement.

Conversely, as weird as Sr undoubtedly is, I think he came across very well.

[Wake up call]

Did anyone else spot that when McCall stopped Lewis in 1994 it cuts to a supposedly angry crowd but one of the guys in the crowd is wearing a West Ham shirt from 1999?

Either time traveller or they used a crowd clip from the Holyfield fight.

[orbtastic]

Things I didn't like:

modern commentary by Dempsey
Going forward and back in time with footage
missing huge chunks of relevant careers
Lewis clearly not giving two Fs about Bruno and flatly refusing to apologise then using the same excuse "people said to me"
Not enough Michael Watson
Incredibly poor resolution footage, come on it's 2024, it wasn't filmed on VHS
The seriously annoying filter they put on all the footage
They skipped over Benn's "demons" but made out that it was down to his brother dying. Yes, his brother's death affected him (his book says as much)
Johnny Nelson
They made out like Benn's slipping headbutt is what caused the end of the fight, crappy editing

Things I did like:

You got an insight into all four, perhaps too much of Eubank
It didn't shy away from the facts, although it did gloss over how boring and safety first Eubank became (yet oddly didn't talk about those last few fights where he got a lot of people onside)
It felt balanced
Was good to see the footage again
Was good to see the coverage surrounding it
Lennox seems the most happy/chilled


Eubank is clearly as mad as box of frogs, if it wasn't evident from decades of being featured on TV/press. He is bonkers. I don't know why we needed to see him doing the Sheriff's stuff, it's like they were told to do it or something.

We knew Bruno had lost it years back but man alive, Lennox is living rent free in the guy's head. It was kinda funny/sad seeing him crying again after the fight with the "I ain't no uncle Tom" because it really got in his head but I forgot how much at the time. He needs to let that go, I felt Lennox knew an apology would sort him out but he was not doing that (on camera at least).

[Syntax Error]

3 episodes in. Enjoyable.

Seeing Bruno at the end of the McCall fight made it clear how much those uncle tom jibes hurt.

Also, I didn’t know Chris Eubank smoked weed.

I am sceptical about Bruno's fixation on Lewis calling him an Uncle Tom.

I believe he was genuinely upset about it, but I suspect that Lewis wasn't the first nor the latest to call him that and maybe that's why it cuts him so deep.

It's not like the situation of Ali belittling and taunting Frazier with horrible insults over a sustained period; as far as I am aware, Lewis only said it during the run-up to their fight.

[JamesPhilips]

I haven’t seen this but saw a trailer and seems odd to concentrate on race. I mean in the 80s and 90s most of the best known and best paid fighters in US and UK were black or non White (Naz basically.)

[Alba]

I wonder if all the people moaning about the reference to race in the documentary, are white?

[big lennox]

I have just finished watching the series. If you see nothing else, then watch the final episode. Incredibly moving.

I really enjoyed the whole series; a really good reminder of how the sport of boxing is indepted to them.

Also, a very important reminder not to turn a blind eye to racism which, sadly, still exists today.

[margaret thatcher]

racism will always exist, people find ways to divide themselves along almost pretty much any differences that exist. theyve done studies where people form rival groups based on the most ridiculous sheeyat, like whether researchers assigned them to be fans of one fictional artist as opposed to another

with so many top boxers being black i guess that story angle is kinda worn out for me (same goes for poor kid rises to stardom), though not denying they experienced it

[ScotsCrime]

Johnny Nelson's racebaiting interjections are highly annoying and some of them outright lies.

"Now Britain had a second (Nigel Benn)black athlete to be proud of..."

Daley Thomson
Tessa Sanderson
Fatima Whitbread
John Regis
Linford Christie (at the time)
John Conteh

And a host of footballers.

[banjo]

3 episodes in. Enjoyable.

Seeing Bruno at the end of the McCall fight made it clear how much those uncle tom jibes hurt.

Also, I didn’t know Chris Eubank smoked weed.

I am sceptical about Bruno's fixation on Lewis calling him an Uncle Tom.

I believe he was genuinely upset about it, but I suspect that Lewis wasn't the first nor the latest to call him that and maybe that's why it cuts him so deep.

It's not like the situation of Ali belittling and taunting Frazier with horrible insults over a sustained period; as far as I am aware, Lewis only said it during the run-up to their fight.

McCall called him an Uncle Tom as well, several people did over the years.

[orbtastic]

I think at one point they basically made out that before Eubank and Benn, there were no British world champions since Minter.

They also made out like they were the first black or non white champions in a sea of white fighters (even shoe-horning in the Minter/Hagler angle from the 1980).

It just felt like race baiting to me and completely glossing over the facts. I mean if you wanted to push the race agenda why not bring in Kaylor/Christie?

[JamesPhilips]

Johnny Nelson's racebaiting interjections are highly annoying and some of them outright lies.

"Now Britain had a second (Nigel Benn)black athlete to be proud of..."

Daley Thomson
Tessa Sanderson
Fatima Whitbread
John Regis
Linford Christie (at the time)
John Conteh

And a host of footballers.

Randolph and Dick Turpin

[banjo]

Honeyghan and Hope fought under the British flag as well.

[mickey1975]

I think at one point they basically made out that before Eubank and Benn, there were no British world champions since Minter.

They also made out like they were the first black or non white champions in a sea of white fighters (even shoe-horning in the Minter/Hagler angle from the 1980).

It just felt like race baiting to me and completely glossing over the facts. I mean if you wanted to push the race agenda why not bring in Kaylor/Christie?

Or even mention the whole country stopping to get behind Frank himself versus Witherspoon. Not "when he got his world title shot one man stood in his way, Mike Tyson".

[si7dog7]

Honeyghan and Hope fought under the British flag as well.

Two of my fav all time fighters banjo

[Syntax Error]

3 episodes in. Enjoyable.

Seeing Bruno at the end of the McCall fight made it clear how much those uncle tom jibes hurt.

Also, I didn’t know Chris Eubank smoked weed.

I am sceptical about Bruno's fixation on Lewis calling him an Uncle Tom.

I believe he was genuinely upset about it, but I suspect that Lewis wasn't the first nor the latest to call him that and maybe that's why it cuts him so deep.

It's not like the situation of Ali belittling and taunting Frazier with horrible insults over a sustained period; as far as I am aware, Lewis only said it during the run-up to their fight.

McCall called him an Uncle Tom as well, several people did over the years.

That explains why it narks him so much, although it doesn't explain why he is so fixated on Lewis saying it, as if Lennox was the only person ever to say it.

There's undoubtedly a good few people who Big Frank should be demanding apologies from, or wishing ill on.

[Controversial]

I am sceptical about Bruno's fixation on Lewis calling him an Uncle Tom.

I believe he was genuinely upset about it, but I suspect that Lewis wasn't the first nor the latest to call him that and maybe that's why it cuts him so deep.

It's not like the situation of Ali belittling and taunting Frazier with horrible insults over a sustained period; as far as I am aware, Lewis only said it during the run-up to their fight.

McCall called him an Uncle Tom as well, several people did over the years.

That explains why it marks him so much, although it doesn't explain why he is so fixated on Lewis saying it, as if Lennox was the only person ever to say it.

There's undoubtedly a good few people who Big Frank should be demanding apologies from, or wishing ill on.

Wasn’t Lewis the first to call him that though, in front of mass media? Maybe that’s why it stuck with him so much plus the fact Lewis was saying he should retire, taking the piss about the panto and he was the new Brit HW on the scene etc. I just think Bruno disliked him more than he did others.

[forcefraser]

Frank's rep took a huge hammering after he played the Genie in some Christmas pantomime

[handsofstone]

Frank's rep took a huge hammering after he played the Genie in some Christmas pantomime

He done all the stupid stuff Eubank, Benn, Khan, Haye, Hatton, Calzaghe, Bugner, Mayweather etc done, that's just off the top of my head, Britain wasn't ready for that back in Bruno's day

[The Gratest]

I grew up watching and listening to Bruno's fights (I listened to the first Tyson fight on the radio and, even though I knew the result, still got a bit excited when watching it on delayed broadcast the next day when he hurt Tyson) and had much love for Big Frank. I was gutted when he got stopped by Bonecrusher.
I always much preferred him to Lewis' more aloof and awkward personality, but....when they did fight, I wanted Lewis to win.
I guess it was maybe just seeing Lewis as the one to carry the UK HW scene forward on the World stage. Frank had had his time and the more talented Lewis would be involved in the bigger fights against the talented group of Yanks at the time.
I think Bruno will always have more love from the Brit public than Lewis ever did and it maybe rankled Lewis at the time.