FantasyMatchup 2: Marvin Hagler vs. Carlos Monzon

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 08 Aug 2006, 16:10

Monzon was a great boxer who could pack a punch. Monzon also had a granite chin and great stamina. This could also be said about Hagler, too though. I would pick Monzon as the best boxer of the two, but not by much. I deem Hagler's chin was a tad stronger and his work rate was difficult to compare to, I think this would be key in this fight.

Hagler would pressure Monzon from the get go and would persistently drive Monzon to the ropes with hard shots. A knockout for Hagler wouldn’t be so easy with Monzon’s chin and stamina, but I do believe he would win by decision...so I say Hagler by SD. A phenomenal fight though, wouldn’t you say?

~A.W.F~

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 08 Aug 2006, 16:18

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... vin+hagler

There have been plenty of topics about it. I think it would be a great fight. Personally I think Monzon would win on points in a very competitive fight. In both a 15 rounder and a 12 rounder, but in a 15 rounder I think he'd win more decisively than in a 12 rounder.

The search feature is great isn't it?

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 08 Aug 2006, 16:47

Damnit! I figured it's been discussed, but I can't figure out how to find threads, and i'm not searching through page by page.

~A.W.F~

vagabundo55 · Post by **vagabundo55** » 08 Aug 2006, 17:00

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:Damnit! I figured it's been discussed, but I can't figure out how to find threads, and i'm not searching through page by page.

~A.W.F~

Just look near the top left.

Anyway, I think it's fine to bring up old discussions because sometimes new people are around and they have different opinions but this one was discussed fairly recently.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 08 Aug 2006, 18:45

I don't think to many people will mind that this topic came back up, it gives the pro Monzon people a chance to say for the umpteenth time how bad they think he would beat Hagler.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:14

......it gives the pro Monzon people a chance to say for the umpteenth time how bad they think he would beat Hagler.

And he would......

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 12 Aug 2006, 12:39

This fight is so hard to call.

One thing you can be certain of, there wouldn't have been a knockout, as both had titanium chins.

I'm going with Hagler by SD, as I think he is the greatest middleweight of all.

theone · Post by **theone** » 12 Aug 2006, 12:52

This is a copy and paste of comments I made about this topic oon another thread:

I believe the difference in this fight would be the fact that Monzon seemed to handle pressure better. There is not really much seperating these two when it comes to speed, power, skill and toughness, but I see Monzon maintaining his poise better when the going got tough and that would allow him to edge Hagler on the scorecards. Hagler appeared to get flustered alot when things werent going his way, while Monzon wore a terminator like expression in the ring.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 12 Aug 2006, 16:49

Yes I knew there was a thread somewhere, this matchup would be too great to not have been discussed. Shit!

~A.W.F~

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 19 Aug 2006, 20:38

I've thought about this hypothetical matchup for years and have gone back and forth on who I thought would win, but finally after at least trying to consider all possibilities, I became thoroughly convinced who would win. What's the magic formula ? well here it is below.

Championship fights of Carlos Monzon
KO 12 Benvenuti
KO 3 Benvenuti
KO 14 Griffith
KO 5 Moyer
KO 13 Bouttier
KO 5 Bogs
W 15 Briscoe
W 15 Griffith
W 15 Bouttier
KO 7 Napoles
KO 7 Mundine
KO 10 Licata
KO 5 Tonna
W 15 Valdez
W 15 Valdez

Championship Fights of Marvin Hagler

D 15 Antuofermo
KO 3 Minter
KO 8 Obelmejias
KO 5 Antuofermo
KO 11 Hamsho
KO 1 Lee
KO 5 Obelmejias
KO 6 Sibson
KO 4 Scypion
W 15 Duran
KO 10 Roldan
KO 3 Hamsho
KO 3 Hearns
KO 11 Mugabi
LSD 12 Leonard

Now you just switch them, picture Monzon fighting Hagler's opponents, and Hagler fighting Monzon's. Then ask yourself who does better. Shouldn't take long and the answer is pretty easy. It's Marvin Hagler.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Aug 2006, 21:56

Seamus wrote:I've thought about this hypothetical matchup for years and have gone back and forth on who I thought would win, but finally after at least trying to consider all possibilities, I became thoroughly convinced who would win. What's the magic formula ? well here it is below.

Championship fights of Carlos Monzon
KO 12 Benvenuti
KO 3 Benvenuti
KO 14 Griffith
KO 5 Moyer
KO 13 Bouttier
KO 5 Bogs
W 15 Briscoe
W 15 Griffith
W 15 Bouttier
KO 7 Napoles
KO 7 Mundine
KO 10 Licata
KO 5 Tonna
W 15 Valdez
W 15 Valdez

Championship Fights of Marvin Hagler

D 15 Antuofermo
KO 3 Minter
KO 8 Obelmejias
KO 5 Antuofermo
KO 11 Hamsho
KO 1 Lee
KO 5 Obelmejias
KO 6 Sibson
KO 4 Scypion
W 15 Duran
KO 10 Roldan
KO 3 Hamsho
KO 3 Hearns
KO 11 Mugabi
LSD 12 Leonard

Now you just switch them, picture Monzon fighting Hagler's opponents, and Hagler fighting Monzon's. Then ask yourself who does better. Shouldn't take long and the answer is pretty easy. It's Marvin Hagler.

That aint neccesarily so.

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Aug 2006, 01:30

I've thought about this hypothetical matchup for years and have gone back and forth on who I thought would win, but finally after at least trying to consider all possibilities, I became thoroughly convinced who would win. What's the magic formula ? well here it is below.

Championship fights of Carlos Monzon
KO 12 Benvenuti
KO 3 Benvenuti
KO 14 Griffith
KO 5 Moyer
KO 13 Bouttier
KO 5 Bogs
W 15 Briscoe
W 15 Griffith
W 15 Bouttier
KO 7 Napoles
KO 7 Mundine
KO 10 Licata
KO 5 Tonna
W 15 Valdez
W 15 Valdez

Championship Fights of Marvin Hagler

D 15 Antuofermo
KO 3 Minter
KO 8 Obelmejias
KO 5 Antuofermo
KO 11 Hamsho
KO 1 Lee
KO 5 Obelmejias
KO 6 Sibson
KO 4 Scypion
W 15 Duran
KO 10 Roldan
KO 3 Hamsho
KO 3 Hearns
KO 11 Mugabi
LSD 12 Leonard

Now you just switch them, picture Monzon fighting Hagler's opponents, and Hagler fighting Monzon's. Then ask yourself who does better. Shouldn't take long and the answer is pretty easy. It's Marvin Hagler.

Actually Monzons list seems a bit more impressive. More variety stylistically I think.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 20 Aug 2006, 10:06

What jumps out at me is that I just don't see Benvenuti lasting into the 12th with Hagler, or Griffith, no matter how good, posters think he was, going 14 and 15, or Bouttier 13 and 15, or old Napoles in what I believe was his only MW bout, finishing 6 rounds, or glass jawed Mundine surviving till the 7th, or overrated Licata 10. I can even see Hagler improving on Benvenuti II, Moyer, Bogs, Tonna, possibly even Briscoe.

Now to Monzon, great world class fighter though he was, but there's no way I see him taking out Minter (unless he cuts) Hamsho and Hearns in 3 rounds, or Antuofermo II in 5 unless he cuts, and like the Minter fight, Hagler really didn't need cuts to win. And the Mugabi Hagler fought, I think he easily goes the distance with Monzon.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 20 Aug 2006, 10:15

Seamus wrote:What jumps out at me is that I just don't see Benvenuti lasting into the 12th with Hagler, or Griffith, no matter how good, posters think he was, going 14 and 15, or Bouttier 13 and 15, or old Napoles in what I believe was his only MW bout, finishing 6 rounds, or glass jawed Mundine surviving till the 7th, or overrated Licata 10. I can even see Hagler improving on Benvenuti II, Moyer, Bogs, Tonna, possibly even Briscoe.

Now to Monzon, great world class fighter though he was, but there's no way I see him taking out Minter (unless he cuts) Hamsho and Hearns in 3 rounds, or Antuofermo II in 5 unless he cuts, and like the Minter fight, Hagler really didn't need cuts to win. And the Mugabi Hagler fought, I think he easily goes the distance with Monzon.

Very well thought out.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Aug 2006, 12:13

the fact that Hagler may be able to engineer a more likley KO in some cases may have little to do with how they would perform head to head.

Foreman may dispense with some opponents easier than Ali..for example.

blueberrymuffin · Post by **blueberrymuffin** » 21 Aug 2006, 12:12

Hagler not only had the chin but a great defense on top of that....and better weapons than Monzon. He was also the more dangerous puncher ....and quicker. he also had a much better jab.

Monzon only pawed with it while Hagler's ripped open skin. Even with Hearns, you could see how it snapped Tommy's head in the first and the third. Not to mention that Marvin did seem to do well against taller fighters so I would expect Hagler to do well boxing. Marvin also has theadded advantage of being the superior in-fighter. Monzon would have to quickly tie Marvin up if he wanted to last.

I was actually more impressed with a Hearns victory than with a victory over Monzon because in Hearns, Hagler was facing a much quicker opponent, at his peak and far more dangerous.

I have to say that the opposition at 160, Hagler's was the more impressive. The often defeated Briscoe and Griffith (past his prime). Licata had a very leaky defense, no punch. Napoles appeared ragged. Denny Moyer was a fair fighter and Valdez was decent but none of those fighters was in the class as hagler's with the exception of the ordinary Minter.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Aug 2006, 12:34

thus spoke blueberrymuffin....what will appleturnover have to say? We wait in suspense. For the record banannacreampie and cherrytart both agreed.

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 21 Aug 2006, 12:36

BoxBuzz wrote:the fact that Hagler may be able to engineer a more likley KO in some cases may have little to do with how they would perform head to head.

Foreman may dispense with some opponents easier than Ali..for example.

COUGH COUGH Joe Fraizer COUGH.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Aug 2006, 08:55

Seamus wrote:I've thought about this hypothetical matchup for years and have gone back and forth on who I thought would win, but finally after at least trying to consider all possibilities, I became thoroughly convinced who would win. What's the magic formula ? well here it is below.

Championship fights of Carlos Monzon
KO 12 Benvenuti
KO 3 Benvenuti
KO 14 Griffith
KO 5 Moyer
KO 13 Bouttier
KO 5 Bogs
W 15 Briscoe
W 15 Griffith
W 15 Bouttier
KO 7 Napoles
KO 7 Mundine
KO 10 Licata
KO 5 Tonna
W 15 Valdez
W 15 Valdez

Championship Fights of Marvin Hagler

D 15 Antuofermo
KO 3 Minter
KO 8 Obelmejias
KO 5 Antuofermo
KO 11 Hamsho
KO 1 Lee
KO 5 Obelmejias
KO 6 Sibson
KO 4 Scypion
W 15 Duran
KO 10 Roldan
KO 3 Hamsho
KO 3 Hearns
KO 11 Mugabi
LSD 12 Leonard

Now you just switch them, picture Monzon fighting Hagler's opponents, and Hagler fighting Monzon's. Then ask yourself who does better. Shouldn't take long and the answer is pretty easy. It's Marvin Hagler.

You were going in the right direction until the final sentence.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Aug 2006, 11:20

ezz, you and I are odd men out in this discussion. This is one of the most surprising aspects of our forum in my mind. The invincibility of Hagler in popular sentiment, and how he dominates opinion over Monzon.

It's not quite as strange as that Face on the planet mars....but close.

http://www.seds.org/nodes/images/apr96/face1.jpg

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 22 Aug 2006, 11:27

Speaking of Mars...I don't know if anyone has heard but I saw on MSN a little link talking about adding 3 more planets...all of them are as big as Pluto I guess. I say keep the classical 8.

That was off topic but you reminded me of that.

Here's what MSN says:

The asteroid Ceres(located between Mars and Jupiter), which is round, would be recast as a dwarf planet in the new scheme.

Pluto would remain a planet, and its moon Charon would be reclassified as a planet. Both would be called "plutons," however, to distinguish them from the eight "classical" planets.

A far-out Pluto-sized object known as 2003 UB313, currently nicknamed Xena, would also be called a pluton.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Aug 2006, 11:36

BoxBuzz wrote:ezz, you and I are odd men out in this discussion. This is one of the most surprising aspects of our forum in my mind. The invincibility of Hagler in popular sentiment, and how he dominates opinion over Monzon.

It's not quite as strange as that Face on the planet mars....but close.

http://www.seds.org/nodes/images/apr96/face1.jpg

Hagler was the dominant fighter of my youth. He was the yardstick. I rate him highly but Monzon had the advantages and would have had Hagler on his own terms. Hagler can't outjab Monzon from the outside and the moment he comes forward he plays into Carlos's hands.

As for the face on Mars I heard that it was airbrushed in by Michelangelo at some point in the mid 16th century, look a bit closer and you'll clearly see it to be the face of some Florentine merchant who was heavily in the great man's debt...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Sep 2006, 06:57

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Sep 2006, 07:02

Hagler is closer in memory and fought more on colour TV. This is the only reason the debate can favour him so dramatically.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Sep 2006, 12:44

That's my take Ezz, In my lifetime he was the best Middleweight I've ever seen...Mike Casey's article really represents what I believe and what I've seen. I will never disrespect Hagler he was one of the greats as well.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... sey+monzon