Thomas Hearns Problem: Glass Jaw, Stamina or Legs?

[elmersalsa]

Thomas Hearns, the exceptional all time pound per pound great nicknamed The Hitman or Motor City Cobra from Detroit, was a phenomenal puncher. One of the greatest punchers pound per pound that we had ever seen.

What in your view was his real problem when he lost the 2 biggest fights of his career against the greats Sugar Ray Leonard in 1981 and Marvelous Marvin Hagler in 1985?

Did he lacked stamina, legs or was it that he had a weak chin?

In my opinion, in his first fight with Leonard, he lacked stamina and legs. His legs were not strong enough for a fight of the pace of that magnitude. His frame for that weight class was kinda weak.

When he jumped 7 pounds over, he was much more stronger. His legs were sturdier. And he could fight a fast paced bout because his legs were stronger at that particular weight class.

But I can't say with Marvelous what really happened. His trainer, Emanuel Steward said that he had a legs massage before the fight and his legs couldn't hold much. Before he got knocked out by Marvelous, he had trouble in his balance. Could it be that what Steward said was true? Or that this time, he didn't had the stamina to go 15 rounds in a fast paced fight like that classic encounter.

Your thoughts.

[gilgamesh]

His chin was his biggest weakness. The massage excuse from Steward about the Hagler fight may explain why he just stood toe to toe with Hagler the entire time as opposed to boxing and moving which almost certainly would've been the wiser strategy.

I don't think Tommy had bad stamina. Leonard had the ability to change his game up when his strategy wasn't working the 1st fight with Tommy, an ability that Tommy never really showed, and Hagler was just too tough and too strong for Hearns.

Ultimately I think Leonard and Hagler beat him because they were just better. Not because of any particular failing of Tommy's, and for what it's worth Tommy deserved the nod in the rematch with Leonard, and he blitzed Duran more emphatically than either one of them ever did so he's got that going for him.

[elmersalsa]

His chin was his biggest weakness. The massage excuse from Steward about the Hagler fight may explain why he just stood toe to toe with Hagler the entire time as opposed to boxing and moving which almost certainly would've been the wiser strategy.

I don't think Tommy had bad stamina. Leonard had the ability to change his game up when his strategy wasn't working the 1st fight with Tommy, an ability that Tommy never really showed, and Hagler was just too tough and too strong for Hearns.

Ultimately I think Leonard and Hagler beat him because they were just better. Not because of any particular failing of Tommy's, and for what it's worth Tommy deserved the nod in the rematch with Leonard, and he blitzed Duran more emphatically than either one of them ever did so he's got that going for him.

Good points. But, what about the fight with Iran "The Blade" Barkley? Was it stamina, legs or definitely a weak glass jaw?

Well, you said that Hearns' biggest weakness was his chin. There it is.

[gilgamesh]

His chin was his biggest weakness. The massage excuse from Steward about the Hagler fight may explain why he just stood toe to toe with Hagler the entire time as opposed to boxing and moving which almost certainly would've been the wiser strategy.

I don't think Tommy had bad stamina. Leonard had the ability to change his game up when his strategy wasn't working the 1st fight with Tommy, an ability that Tommy never really showed, and Hagler was just too tough and too strong for Hearns.

Ultimately I think Leonard and Hagler beat him because they were just better. Not because of any particular failing of Tommy's, and for what it's worth Tommy deserved the nod in the rematch with Leonard, and he blitzed Duran more emphatically than either one of them ever did so he's got that going for him.

Good points. But, what about the fight with Iran "The Blade" Barkley? Was it stamina, legs or definitely a weak glass jaw?

Well, you said that Hearns' biggest weakness was his chin. There it is.

The first fight with Barkley it was definitely the chin that got him beat. The rematch he was fighting Barkley and time. I've actually never seen the rematch, but it's hard to imagine Barkley being able to win a decision over a Tommy Hearns that isn't well past his best.

[DrDuke]

The skinny madafãka had a thin neck, so he couldn't take a punch well enough.

[Flump]

His chin was his biggest weakness. The massage excuse from Steward about the Hagler fight may explain why he just stood toe to toe with Hagler the entire time as opposed to boxing and moving which almost certainly would've been the wiser strategy.

I don't think Tommy had bad stamina. Leonard had the ability to change his game up when his strategy wasn't working the 1st fight with Tommy, an ability that Tommy never really showed, and Hagler was just too tough and too strong for Hearns.

Ultimately I think Leonard and Hagler beat him because they were just better. Not because of any particular failing of Tommy's, and for what it's worth Tommy deserved the nod in the rematch with Leonard, and he blitzed Duran more emphatically than either one of them ever did so he's got that going for him.

Good points. But, what about the fight with Iran "The Blade" Barkley? Was it stamina, legs or definitely a weak glass jaw?

Well, you said that Hearns' biggest weakness was his chin. There it is.

The first fight with Barkley it was definitely the chin that got him beat. The rematch he was fighting Barkley and time. I've actually never seen the rematch, but it's hard to imagine Barkley being able to win a decision over a Tommy Hearns that isn't well past his best.

I haven't seen the rematch since it happened but my recollection is that it was a brawl, in part because of Barkley and in part because Tommy's legs weren't there, Good fight though. The first fight Hearns was beating the sh1it out of Iran until he got caught.

[Tony1244]

"Weak chin" is a huge exaggeration. Hagler was an excellent puncher and Leonard also was an underrated puncher with super fast hands.

Emmanuel Steward had him come in too light against Leonard.

A in power. Perhaps a C+ chin.

[gilgamesh]

"Weak chin" is a huge exaggeration. Hagler was an excellent puncher and Leonard also was an underrated puncher with super fast hands.

Emmanuel Steward had him come in too light against Leonard.

A in power. Perhaps a C+ chin.

Yeah when the only people that beat you for years are All time great fighters, I don't know if that necessarily makes your chin "weak". He wasn't as sturdy as Leonard and Hagler perhaps, but he was tougher than your average boxer or he wouldn't have gotten where he got.

[Caractacus]

Personally I don't believe it was Hearns having his legs massaged
unbeknownst to the trainer, that caused him to loose the fight.
i think it may have been nerves of having to face Marvelous Marvin Hagler
( had to be almost like going to your own execution for anyone)

[keithmoonhangover]

Glass jaw?

[Tony1244]

"Weak chin" is a huge exaggeration. Hagler was an excellent puncher and Leonard also was an underrated puncher with super fast hands.

Emmanuel Steward had him come in too light against Leonard.

A in power. Perhaps a C+ chin.

Yeah when the only people that beat you for years are All time great fighters, I don't know if that necessarily makes your chin "weak". He wasn't as sturdy as Leonard and Hagler perhaps, but he was tougher than your average boxer or he wouldn't have gotten where he got.

Just watched a documentary on Duane Bobick. He's been called a bum. He was a top 3 HW amateur in the early 70s and a top pro 10 HW in the competitive late 1970s; not too shabby. Also Marvis Frazier is another known for only his losses. Such is boxing.

[margaret thatcher]

im not sure, but even factoring in that he was facing a rampaging marvin hagler, seeing hearns legs go to exhausted jelly in like 1 round was strange. i dont rate it as high as most others in terms of being a great fight because hearns becomes a floppy noodle so quickly and it became a bit of a beatdown only a round and a half in. no real extend competitive action, drama, big turn arounds, estc

he had to fight hard many other times and never had spaghetti legs so quickly. albeit he would never win that type of slugging contest vs hagler, but i can believe that he had some sort of issue with himself that night, coulda even just been not warming up right

his jaw wasnt glass but it wasnt up to the atg level the rest of him was, and it was the worst of the 4 'kings;

btw, i fell like hearns beating an unbeaten young virgil hill at 175 is an underrated win

[keithmoonhangover]

im not sure, but even factoring in that he was facing a rampaging marvin hagler, seeing hearns legs go to exhausted jelly in like 1 round was strange. i dont rate it as high as most others in terms of being a great fight because hearns becomes a floppy noodle so quickly and it became a bit of a beatdown only a round and a half in. no real extend competitive action, drama, big turn arounds, estc

he had to fight hard many other times and never had spaghetti legs so quickly. albeit he would never win that type of slugging contest vs hagler, but i can believe that he had some sort of issue with himself that night, coulda even just been not warming up right

his jaw wasnt glass but it wasnt up to the atg level the rest of him was, and it was the worst of the 4 'kings;

btw, i fell like hearns beating an unbeaten young virgil hill at 175 is an underrated win

Definitely.

[gilgamesh]

"Weak chin" is a huge exaggeration. Hagler was an excellent puncher and Leonard also was an underrated puncher with super fast hands.

Emmanuel Steward had him come in too light against Leonard.

A in power. Perhaps a C+ chin.

Yeah when the only people that beat you for years are All time great fighters, I don't know if that necessarily makes your chin "weak". He wasn't as sturdy as Leonard and Hagler perhaps, but he was tougher than your average boxer or he wouldn't have gotten where he got.

Just watched a documentary on Duane Bobick. He's been called a bum. He was a top 3 HW amateur in the early 70s and a top pro 10 HW in the competitive late 1970s; not too shabby. Also Marvis Frazier is another known for only his losses. Such is boxing.

If the only failures you had in Boxing were against very high level competition. You have nothing to hang your head about. All those people that will tell you "You have a glass jaw" or you just ain't got it for whatever reason. Couldn't have lasted 1 minute in your shoes, and they couldn't last 1 minute against you "The Loser" either. So it's all a matter of perspective.

[Ambling Alp II]

"Weak chin" is a huge exaggeration. Hagler was an excellent puncher and Leonard also was an underrated puncher with super fast hands.

Emmanuel Steward had him come in too light against Leonard.

A in power. Perhaps a C+ chin.

Yeah when the only people that beat you for years are All time great fighters, I don't know if that necessarily makes your chin "weak". He wasn't as sturdy as Leonard and Hagler perhaps, but he was tougher than your average boxer or he wouldn't have gotten where he got.

Just watched a documentary on Duane Bobick. He's been called a bum. He was a top 3 HW amateur in the early 70s and a top pro 10 HW in the competitive late 1970s; not too shabby. Also Marvis Frazier is another known for only his losses. Such is boxing.

How true. Part of it is because they were hyped so much too soon. (Not their fault).
Bobick had the big showdown with Norton on Primetime Network TV. A lot of [people thought he would win. Got stopped in the first round. Lost on national TV by getting stopped by Tate.
Frazier got stopped by Holmes (Primetime) and Tyson on National TV as well.

They are primarily remembered for those embarrassing losses.

Fortunately for Hearns, he had some big wins and his losses were not so embarrassing.