Joe Louis's legacy would have been even better if not for WW

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

think about it...........he already had 22 title defenses when he went off to war in 1942. with those extra 4 years........he perhaps would have had 20 more title defenses and that would give him around a career total of close to 45 title defenses. this would unquestionably make him # 1 heavyweight of all time in my book. 45 title defenses......this would be incredible. i think louis would have done it too.


heres my prediction of louis title defenses if not for the war.......


* louis would have eventually had to face top coloured contenders of his era because he was running out of white contenders to face and there were some damm good coloured heavyweights out there in the 1940s and the public pressure would be on



1942

KO 6 abe simon
KO 1 buddy Baer
KO 5 billy conn- rematch
KO 8 Harry Bobo
TKO 7 Melio Bettina
KO 1 Lee Savold
TKO 2 Pat Valentino



1943

KO 1 Tami Mauriello
KO 4 Gunnar Barlund
TKO 12 Jimmy Bivins- close fight
KO 3 Jimmy Bivins
TKO 3 Gus Lesnevich


1944

KO 4 Elmer Ray
TKO 6 Joe Baksi
TKO 5 Lee Oma
KO 8 Turkey Thompson
UD 15 Joey Maxim
TKO 4 Joey Maxim


1945

KO 2 Melio Bettina
15 close UD Lee Q Murray
KO 1 Freddie Schott
KO 11 Lee Q Murray
KO 4 Pat Comiskey


so thats 21 more title defenses Joe Louis missed out on......


so lets say joe louis enters 1946 with 43 title defenses.........


in 1946 joe louis would fight


KO 2 Bruce Woodcock
TKO 1 Johnny Flynn
L 15 Jersey Joe Walcott- louis loses world title to walcott

1947

KO 11 jersey joe walcott- Louis behind on points regains title with stunning knockout over walcott


Louis Retires with 45 career title defenses

[evndrbsn]

think about it...........he already had 22 title defenses when he went off to war in 1942. with those extra 4 years........he perhaps would have had 20 more title defenses and that would give him around a career total of close to 45 title defenses. this would unquestionably make him # 1 heavyweight of all time in my book. 45 title defenses......this would be incredible. i think louis would have done it too.


heres my prediction of louis title defenses if not for the war.......


* louis would have eventually had to face top coloured contenders of his era because he was running out of white contenders to face and there were some damm good coloured heavyweights out there in the 1940s and the public pressure would be on



1942

KO 6 abe simon
KO 1 buddy Baer
KO 5 billy conn- rematch
KO 8 Harry Bobo
TKO 7 Melio Bettina
KO 1 Lee Savold
TKO 2 Pat Valentino



1943

KO 1 Tami Mauriello
KO 4 Gunnar Barlund
TKO 12 Jimmy Bivins- close fight
KO 3 Jimmy Bivins
TKO 3 Gus Lesnevich


1944

KO 4 Elmer Ray
TKO 6 Joe Baksi
TKO 5 Lee Oma
KO 8 Turkey Thompson
UD 15 Joey Maxim
TKO 4 Joey Maxim


1945

KO 2 Melio Bettina
15 close UD Lee Q Murray
KO 1 Freddie Schott
KO 11 Lee Q Murray
KO 4 Pat Comiskey


so thats 21 more title defenses Joe Louis missed out on......


so lets say joe louis enters 1946 with 43 title defenses.........


in 1946 joe louis would fight


KO 2 Bruce Woodcock
TKO 1 Johnny Flynn
L 15 Jersey Joe Walcott- louis loses world title to walcott

1947

KO 11 jersey joe walcott- Louis behind on points regains title with stunning knockout over walcott


Louis Retires with 45 career title defenses

Louis would have burnt out with that kind of schedule and certainly would have lost to a lesser fighter. It is more likely he would have fought an average of 3-4 fights a year. Not every year can be like 1941 where he made seven defenses.

[HomicideHenry]

I think Joe Louis' career would have been 'complete' if he had taken on the likes of Turkey Thompson and Elmer Ray, among a few others, such as Jimmy Bivins, Joey Maxim. Throw in a few 'easier' defenses such as Buddy Knox in between the big fights [Conn beat Knox to gain status as a true HW contender].

I do think Louis could have had 30, 30 defenses, but then again, that would have been a hard task, though those years in the military would have been Joe Louis' last 'peak' years. Too much of a work schedule, at least in my mind.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

If he'd faced Ray, Walcott, Conn and Bivins during those years, one of them would've beaten him.

ur right walcott would have beat him and louis would win the rematch.


why no mention lee Q murray? he was one of heavyweights historys best kept secrets. you would really like murray. study up more on him. hes a complete all around fighter and had good size. also he beat very solid opposition. contemporaries speak highly of lee q murray.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

think about it...........he already had 22 title defenses when he went off to war in 1942. with those extra 4 years........he perhaps would have had 20 more title defenses and that would give him around a career total of close to 45 title defenses. this would unquestionably make him # 1 heavyweight of all time in my book. 45 title defenses......this would be incredible. i think louis would have done it too.


heres my prediction of louis title defenses if not for the war.......


* louis would have eventually had to face top coloured contenders of his era because he was running out of white contenders to face and there were some damm good coloured heavyweights out there in the 1940s and the public pressure would be on



1942

KO 6 abe simon
KO 1 buddy Baer
KO 5 billy conn- rematch
KO 8 Harry Bobo
TKO 7 Melio Bettina
KO 1 Lee Savold
TKO 2 Pat Valentino



1943

KO 1 Tami Mauriello
KO 4 Gunnar Barlund
TKO 12 Jimmy Bivins- close fight
KO 3 Jimmy Bivins
TKO 3 Gus Lesnevich


1944

KO 4 Elmer Ray
TKO 6 Joe Baksi
TKO 5 Lee Oma
KO 8 Turkey Thompson
UD 15 Joey Maxim
TKO 4 Joey Maxim


1945

KO 2 Melio Bettina
15 close UD Lee Q Murray
KO 1 Freddie Schott
KO 11 Lee Q Murray
KO 4 Pat Comiskey


so thats 21 more title defenses Joe Louis missed out on......


so lets say joe louis enters 1946 with 43 title defenses.........


in 1946 joe louis would fight


KO 2 Bruce Woodcock
TKO 1 Johnny Flynn
L 15 Jersey Joe Walcott- louis loses world title to walcott

1947

KO 11 jersey joe walcott- Louis behind on points regains title with stunning knockout over walcott


Louis Retires with 45 career title defenses

Louis would have burnt out with that kind of schedule and certainly would have lost to a lesser fighter. It is more likely he would have fought an average of 3-4 fights a year. Not every year can be like 1941 where he made seven defenses.

i think louis can handle it for another 3 years. hes still young 27 in 1942 and hadnt been through many wars. he was a boxerpuncher who was patient and conserved his energy.....those types dont wear out as fast. i think louis would be able to handle it but i also think louis would start to decline sooner......perhaps by 1944.


but i strongly think louis would have around at least 40 title defenses instead of 25 if there had been no world war 2

[HomicideHenry]

Yea but we ain't exactly talking about a high-profile era either in HW history...the majority of Louis' title defenses were against good fighters but they wasn't exactly killers like Charles, Walcott whom Louis would later face off against when he was on the downside.

To really ponder IF Louis could have pulled this off, you have to examine each individual that Louis never had the chance to meet up with, such as Turkey Thompson, Pat Valentino [though Louis beat him in an exhibition] and Elmer Ray, just to throw out a few names.

I think...if every 3 months Louis fought a not so good contender, and every 6 months fought a genuine threat to his title, he could have possibly done it, but then again how long would that kind of schedule really last? He was 27 and in boxing years its near the twilight of a career, though he did prove in his comeback, though he had ring rust and older, he could still beat some tough opposition.

Now...I know it could be done if he fought just simply mediocre opposition, like Max Baer did after losing the title and fought 24 times in 4 months, losing once out of the 24.

This reminds me of the movie Diggstown lol 10 men in a day, 5 rounds per fight, more than 50 rounds of boxing in a single day.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

the best contenders louis would have had to go through in the mid 1940s would have been jersey joe walcott, conn rematch, jimmy bivins, lee q murray, harry bobo, elmer ray, and turkey thompson.

[HomicideHenry]

Maybe if Louis fought those guys you just listed first, and then the not so dangerous ones that he could have pulled it off.

[Roco]

As good as Louis was he would have come unstuck at some point. He may have made a few more but certainly not 30+

[dempseyfire]

Man, lots of resurrected threads here lately!

[Goodnight, Irene]

30+ was certainly achievable subtracting the War, Roco. Louis couldve, probably WOULD have, made it into the early-30's.

However, 45 title defenses!? Twenty in a four-year stretch? Thats fantasy from Brockton. For a number of reasons.

Dont forget, either, that Ali (who is 2nd all-time for number of defenses) was denied his title at a time he was actively defending, and would have bumped his numbers up too.

[raylawpc]

I think it depends on how you define "legacy." Louis put the heavyweight title on the shelf in the service of his country. I think Louis' war-time patriotism in a racially divided United States made him a symbol of national unity and purpose. That was, perhaps, his greatest legacy.

[Dancer]

I noticed a question about Joe Louis during WW11
Asking for information of where he did a demonstration contest in England.
I do not seem to be able to find the page again.
He did a demonstration contest at The Garrison Theatre Tidworth during WW11
Tidworth was an American Base1942 TO 1946
My grandfather was manager of the theatre when he appeared.
I am happy to give further information but will need time to search theatre archive
My grandfather opened the theatre in 1909 the familiy still manages it today 24.11.2012
Anthony Pickernell

[BARNEYKX]

I remember many many years ago The Ring Magazine with an Archie Moore comic type strip on the cover running with arms out stretched trying to grab the world heavyweight crown,I believe Louis maybe ducked a defence against Moore

[HomicideHenry]

Of them all, Elmer Ray I think was the only man Louis would of ever ducked out right, the rest (no disrespect) just wouldn't of had a chance to of beaten him, let alone lasted more than a few rounds with Louis. Ray was the only man who had not just a solid chance, he had more than a chance of not only beating Louis but by knocking him out.