Tommy Ryan 1911 articles
In 1911 Tommy Ryan wrote a series of articles for the Syracuse Herald
Entitled “Nineteen Years In The Ring”, the story of the life and battles
Of Tommy Ryan, retired middleweight champion of the world as written
By himself.
It is I believe the custom to start a story of a persons life history with the
Facts of his birth. I shall doubtless surprise some of my readers by statements Which I shall make in this as well as the other articles.
The general impression among ring followers all over the country is that I am of Jewish parentage. While I have nothing but the highest regard for that race , I am not a member of it.i was born in the little town of Redwood in Jefferson County, New York on March 31st 1870. My father was a Frenchman and my mother English I was christened Joseph Younges ( note the spelling, ) how I came to be known as Tommy Ryan will be made known in another article.
When I was a youngster my parents moved to Syracuse and I received my early Education in the public schools in Salt City. While I have been away from Syracuse at various times for considerable periods I still look upon that city as my home and will always be viewed by me as such.
However, the boyhood Joys and troubles of a youngster will hardly be of Interest to the great majority of my readers so I will pass over fifteen
years by simply, stating that I had as many troubles and scrapes as the average youngster and managed to live through them. My fifteenth birthday found me as a waterboy with, one of the construction gangs on the Toledo & Ann Arbor railway in Michigan.
The line was being constructed at that time, and it was among the railway laborers that I got my first smack of fighting. Camps were erected along the line of the railway several miles apart. Part of the equipment of every camp seemed to be a few pairs of boxing gloves, for men living a clean, healthy life. in the open are always followers of any clean, healthful sport, such as boxing is.
Prior to going to Michigan I had never seer, any regular boxing bouts. While I was in Syracuse a man named Meyers who used to keep a saloon on Railroad street and every Saturday night there would be a couple of short bouts in the bar room. . As I was a small boy at that time I was frequently kicked out. In fact, I was never allowed In the room when any of the men knew I was there. They say that boys will be boys, and when a boy wants to see anything he will generally succeed. I was no exception, and I managed by devious ways to see a few of these bouts.
After I had been in the construction camp for a short time I was allowed to put on the gloves myself. Right here I want to tell my readers that the boxing glove of those days and the glove of to-day are entirely different things, though known, by the same name. The boxing glove of I885 was a skin-tight leather glove that was devised more for the protection of the hand of the boxer wearing it than for the protection of the man upon whom it was to be used.
Boxing seemed to come quite natural To me I was quick on my feet and could use my hands rather well I have never had a boxing lesson In my life, but experience Is the best lesson that any one can have. I was simply put up against a man and he went after me. It was up to me to look out for myself, and It was in such bouts that I learned the first movements of side-stepping, feinting and parrying that afterwards gave me a reputation in the boxing world.
Before I had been boxing many weeks I was able to outbox any man in the camp My fellow workers took considerable pride in my ability and
being but a youngster, I came to look upon myself as rather clever. It gave me confidence, something that is greatly needed to make a good boxer However, there is such a thing as being over-confident, but I am not going to take up that question here.
The various camps soon began to arrange bouts Between their respective boxing champions – the best man In the camp meeting the best of an other. When such a bout was arranged The men from our camp would get out the hand cars and make the trip To the camp where the bout would be held.
I was taken the round of all the camps and was returned a winner In every bout. The bouts were all withthe skin-tight gloves and such things
as rounds were unknown. There would be a signal to start, and it was a case of keep fighting until one man was knocked out or until one gave up. Some of those camp fights of mine lasted only a few minutes while others required a full hour. The bouts usually took place in a big mess house or in the open air. There were no padded canvas floors to fall upon, no skilled seconds to take care of you every three minutes
. the floors were uneven, rough and hard. Stimulants during the bouts were entirely out of the question.
tommy Ryan
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UpWithEvil
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more
well here you go mate. there is loads of it and facinating to read. aside from the 7 parts on his life he did a lot more writing for the press. A great insite into the times. the next part deals with boxing styles. i also have a short article which states he was adopted by some guy with lots of cash after his parents died and is this true and the reason why he ran away from home?
Part 2
Some early fights
When I joined the Michigan railways construction camps I was a bit backward in giving my name. I had run away from home and for want
of something better I was known as the Syracuse Kid. After I had become champion of all the construction camps my friends began to look around for other men for me to conquer. The fact that I was the champion did not meet with unanimous approval In some of the rival camps and they began to offer inducements to get good boxers to take up residence with them.
It was in this way that one of the camps got a new cook. He was a fine built man and it turned out he had gained a little reputation as a prize fighter. His camp mates were just spoiling to see me beaten, while my own mates were not at all backward in putting me against the new man, who gave the name of English. Considerable money changed hands on the various bouts and my camp mates saw a chance to gather in some more of the surplus coin. The match was soon made.
Forty five minutes after English and I started our affair his seconds threw In the towel to signal that their man had taken enough punishment. I had not escaped myself but being quicker on my feet and as capable as my opponent with my hands I came out as victor.
With my reputation as a boxer spreading outside the camp it became necessary that I take some name or give my own .I was afraid I would be in for a good “Tanning “ if I gave my own name and my father heard about it so I took a name that seemed easy to remember. Tommy Ryan, the brewer, was mayor of Syracuse , my home town ,at that time. The name was easy to remember so I promptly christened myself “Tommy Ryan” and to this day I am known by in connection with ring affairs. There are few fans who would recognize my ring career under the name of Joseph Youngs.
Our camp was located outside of the little town of Marion, Michigan ,and the fight fans were very proud of a fellow named Joe Johnson.
It was under the name of Tommy Ryan that I fought him and it was my first battle under anything like recognized rules. There were rounds and the old London Prize rule were to govern. All my other fights had taken place in a ring formed of the spectators.
Johnson was clever and a bit heavier than I. He also had a bit more ring experience and I found It a bit hard to get used to the rules. However, my foot work again came to my aid for I danced around Johnson after three rounds and knocked him out in the fifth.
This bout added to my reputation I became known outside of the construction camps and nearby towns and a few of the fans in the cities began to hear of “a clever and hard hitting kid in the railway camps”
Some sporting men in Cadillac, Michigan , heard of me and came to the camp to see me. They were satisfied with my showing and offered me a bout In Lake city , Michigan, with a fellow named Dick England. Dick worked in a lumber camp and was a great favorite. He had beaten a man backed by the Cadillac men and they were out for revenge.
For the first time in my life I was given some actual training to be in fit physical condition for the bout. I quit my job in the railway camp and set out to be a real pugilist. The training I had was, in comparison with modern training, crude but I was in great condition for the bout.
Wagering on the bout was heavy. England was a real favorite and my Cadillac backers covered all the bets they could.
When the bout started I soon realized that I was up against the best man who had ever faced me. England was taking no chances and we both boxed wearily for a few rounds. It was by pecking Jabbing and getting clear that I gradually wore him down and I ended the bout in the thirty third round with a knockout. My weight at that time was around 128-130 pounds, but I was growing .My matches were mostly with light weights though in some of the Construction camp bouts I had to give away as much as thirty pounds.
Going to Detroit a group of sporting men their arranged to give me a. tryout with Ed Austin, a middleweight who was very popular there at that time. That my showing was satisfactory may be judged by the fact that I was immediately matched with the best lightweight of whom Detroit could boast at that time—Martin Shaughnessy.
Shaughnessy was a figure in the Boxing world; I was almost an absolute unknown. Few persons thought that I stood even a chance with the
experienced man, I was a stranger in a strange city. Still in my teens, I had a lot to learn about the ring game. I had no trainer, no place to train and no one to advise me.
I knew, of course, that I would have to be In fine condition to beat Shaughnessy, for such a thing as him defeating me never entered my head. Every morning I used to go out to the race track and have a long run. For a few cents I would get a boy to rub me down after my exertions and that was the sum total of my training.
part 3
After a week of training, if running around a race track could be called that, I was ready to go against Martin Shaughnessy the pride of Detroit. The bout came of at a road house known as Giffs Place a few miles out of Detroit . the ring was a small one and occupied the full width of the building, being placed in the center with seats on two sides. We used ordinary kid gloves with the finger tips cut of.
When everything seemed ready Shaughnessy sized me up and then Made a demand that the winner of the bout should take the whole purse.
Evidently my appearance was not very prepossessing and the Detroiter thought he has a chance of some easy money. Well Martin did not get that money and his try for it was not an easy one. I imagine he was sorry for his bargain before the bout had progressed five rounds for it was one tough battle.
I had very few friends in the audience which was jammed on two sides of the ring. I did not even know anything about my seconds. They were supplied by the promoter but they turned out to be honest and competent. My chief second was a well known amateur boxer and athlete in Detroit , I forget his name, but I remember him being a fine fellow. He was elected Sheriff of Detroit in recent years. While an amateur He was an excellent judge of how to map out a battle and he Gave me a lot of help in that bout.
Everything seemed to go in the ring in those days, butting with your elbows, heeling the glove over your opponents face and Other such tactics were not frowned upon. The one who had the most friends generally got away with it. And Martin Shaughnessy proved an adept at all the tactics in the boxing game.
For twelve rounds it was a case of give and take, I was the younger but Shaughnessy Had the experience. He liked to fight at close quarters but I had a better knowledge of footwork than the veteran and did not permit this. Both of us were pretty well marked up.
In the 13th round I got in a right and left uppercuts to the jaw and Shaughnessy toppled to the floor and took the count of ten. I had won the bout and after speaking to my seconds I was about to leave the ring when someone hit me from behind. I turned quickly and found my late opponent again facing me. The fans had not taken the defeat of their idol any to well and everybody seemed to want another bout, .I had no particular objection for Shaughnessy now had no terror for me. I knew in my heart that I was his master.
The referee told me that I had won the fight fair and square and advised me to leave the ring. I was feeling too good to take his advice
In the face of the taunts of Shaughnessy’s friends. Tossing the coat I had wrapped about my shoulders to my seconds I announced That I was going to fight the Detroiter again and would Surely knock him out so decisively that there would be no come back. I was mad “clear through”.
The bell rang, it was called the 14th round. Some may call it the 1st round of a second fight. I shall continue to refer to it as one fight. I left my
corner and met Shaughnessy in the center of the ring. Feinting with my right he swung a right to my face, landing on my nose and breaking it. This made me even madder than I was before. I was down and struck the bare boards with my face. There was no padding in those days. The boards raised a bump on my left eye and when I got up at the count of eight I found I could hardly see out of it. How I lasted that round I cannot tell. It seemed as if the end might come at any minute.
My seconds gave me good attention and I was in pretty fair shape for the opening of the 15th and as it progressed I became stronger. For
Three or four rounds things were pretty even, each of us taking hard punishment. After the 20th my faster work began to bother him and in the 23rd I broke down his guard and finally got inside to land two stiff uppercuts. When he went down it was to stay for many minutes. There was no question about the second knockout.
When I was rubbed down and dressed I looked up the promoter to get the purse.he handed me $33 . Think of that sum for 23 rounds of grueling fighting. Why, in my fight club In Syracuse I have paid from $25 -$75 for each boy in the preliminaries. They now fight with padded gloves in a fine ring and none of the preliminaries went More than 6 rounds. There has been a big change in the 22 yrs since I met Shaughnessy.
While the financial gain was small I believe I got value in other ways. For one thing I had the experience and the other that when a boxer is once given the decision he should leave the ring and not try to earn it a second time. I have always believed luck was with me in the second contest. In my bouts with the railway workers which numbered close to 200 in the three years I usually outclassed my opponent. Such was not the case with Shaughnessy. I learned I must keep my head at all times no matter what the provocation.
The cost of living was not a breakfast table topic in those days and the meager purse I won lasted me a few weeks until I was matched with Mike Dunn. He was rated as the 2nd best lightweight in Detroit The top honours generally being accorded to Shaughnessy. Dunn had a large
Following and when I defeated Shaughnessy he began to demand a match with me. I was needing the money for I had discovered that being a professional pugilist does not bring in the money unless you earn it in the ring. or rather it did not in those days , vaudeville and moving pictures are adjuncts of the modern and not the old ring game. So I took the match with Dunn.
Part 2
Some early fights
When I joined the Michigan railways construction camps I was a bit backward in giving my name. I had run away from home and for want
of something better I was known as the Syracuse Kid. After I had become champion of all the construction camps my friends began to look around for other men for me to conquer. The fact that I was the champion did not meet with unanimous approval In some of the rival camps and they began to offer inducements to get good boxers to take up residence with them.
It was in this way that one of the camps got a new cook. He was a fine built man and it turned out he had gained a little reputation as a prize fighter. His camp mates were just spoiling to see me beaten, while my own mates were not at all backward in putting me against the new man, who gave the name of English. Considerable money changed hands on the various bouts and my camp mates saw a chance to gather in some more of the surplus coin. The match was soon made.
Forty five minutes after English and I started our affair his seconds threw In the towel to signal that their man had taken enough punishment. I had not escaped myself but being quicker on my feet and as capable as my opponent with my hands I came out as victor.
With my reputation as a boxer spreading outside the camp it became necessary that I take some name or give my own .I was afraid I would be in for a good “Tanning “ if I gave my own name and my father heard about it so I took a name that seemed easy to remember. Tommy Ryan, the brewer, was mayor of Syracuse , my home town ,at that time. The name was easy to remember so I promptly christened myself “Tommy Ryan” and to this day I am known by in connection with ring affairs. There are few fans who would recognize my ring career under the name of Joseph Youngs.
Our camp was located outside of the little town of Marion, Michigan ,and the fight fans were very proud of a fellow named Joe Johnson.
It was under the name of Tommy Ryan that I fought him and it was my first battle under anything like recognized rules. There were rounds and the old London Prize rule were to govern. All my other fights had taken place in a ring formed of the spectators.
Johnson was clever and a bit heavier than I. He also had a bit more ring experience and I found It a bit hard to get used to the rules. However, my foot work again came to my aid for I danced around Johnson after three rounds and knocked him out in the fifth.
This bout added to my reputation I became known outside of the construction camps and nearby towns and a few of the fans in the cities began to hear of “a clever and hard hitting kid in the railway camps”
Some sporting men in Cadillac, Michigan , heard of me and came to the camp to see me. They were satisfied with my showing and offered me a bout In Lake city , Michigan, with a fellow named Dick England. Dick worked in a lumber camp and was a great favorite. He had beaten a man backed by the Cadillac men and they were out for revenge.
For the first time in my life I was given some actual training to be in fit physical condition for the bout. I quit my job in the railway camp and set out to be a real pugilist. The training I had was, in comparison with modern training, crude but I was in great condition for the bout.
Wagering on the bout was heavy. England was a real favorite and my Cadillac backers covered all the bets they could.
When the bout started I soon realized that I was up against the best man who had ever faced me. England was taking no chances and we both boxed wearily for a few rounds. It was by pecking Jabbing and getting clear that I gradually wore him down and I ended the bout in the thirty third round with a knockout. My weight at that time was around 128-130 pounds, but I was growing .My matches were mostly with light weights though in some of the Construction camp bouts I had to give away as much as thirty pounds.
Going to Detroit a group of sporting men their arranged to give me a. tryout with Ed Austin, a middleweight who was very popular there at that time. That my showing was satisfactory may be judged by the fact that I was immediately matched with the best lightweight of whom Detroit could boast at that time—Martin Shaughnessy.
Shaughnessy was a figure in the Boxing world; I was almost an absolute unknown. Few persons thought that I stood even a chance with the
experienced man, I was a stranger in a strange city. Still in my teens, I had a lot to learn about the ring game. I had no trainer, no place to train and no one to advise me.
I knew, of course, that I would have to be In fine condition to beat Shaughnessy, for such a thing as him defeating me never entered my head. Every morning I used to go out to the race track and have a long run. For a few cents I would get a boy to rub me down after my exertions and that was the sum total of my training.
part 3
After a week of training, if running around a race track could be called that, I was ready to go against Martin Shaughnessy the pride of Detroit. The bout came of at a road house known as Giffs Place a few miles out of Detroit . the ring was a small one and occupied the full width of the building, being placed in the center with seats on two sides. We used ordinary kid gloves with the finger tips cut of.
When everything seemed ready Shaughnessy sized me up and then Made a demand that the winner of the bout should take the whole purse.
Evidently my appearance was not very prepossessing and the Detroiter thought he has a chance of some easy money. Well Martin did not get that money and his try for it was not an easy one. I imagine he was sorry for his bargain before the bout had progressed five rounds for it was one tough battle.
I had very few friends in the audience which was jammed on two sides of the ring. I did not even know anything about my seconds. They were supplied by the promoter but they turned out to be honest and competent. My chief second was a well known amateur boxer and athlete in Detroit , I forget his name, but I remember him being a fine fellow. He was elected Sheriff of Detroit in recent years. While an amateur He was an excellent judge of how to map out a battle and he Gave me a lot of help in that bout.
Everything seemed to go in the ring in those days, butting with your elbows, heeling the glove over your opponents face and Other such tactics were not frowned upon. The one who had the most friends generally got away with it. And Martin Shaughnessy proved an adept at all the tactics in the boxing game.
For twelve rounds it was a case of give and take, I was the younger but Shaughnessy Had the experience. He liked to fight at close quarters but I had a better knowledge of footwork than the veteran and did not permit this. Both of us were pretty well marked up.
In the 13th round I got in a right and left uppercuts to the jaw and Shaughnessy toppled to the floor and took the count of ten. I had won the bout and after speaking to my seconds I was about to leave the ring when someone hit me from behind. I turned quickly and found my late opponent again facing me. The fans had not taken the defeat of their idol any to well and everybody seemed to want another bout, .I had no particular objection for Shaughnessy now had no terror for me. I knew in my heart that I was his master.
The referee told me that I had won the fight fair and square and advised me to leave the ring. I was feeling too good to take his advice
In the face of the taunts of Shaughnessy’s friends. Tossing the coat I had wrapped about my shoulders to my seconds I announced That I was going to fight the Detroiter again and would Surely knock him out so decisively that there would be no come back. I was mad “clear through”.
The bell rang, it was called the 14th round. Some may call it the 1st round of a second fight. I shall continue to refer to it as one fight. I left my
corner and met Shaughnessy in the center of the ring. Feinting with my right he swung a right to my face, landing on my nose and breaking it. This made me even madder than I was before. I was down and struck the bare boards with my face. There was no padding in those days. The boards raised a bump on my left eye and when I got up at the count of eight I found I could hardly see out of it. How I lasted that round I cannot tell. It seemed as if the end might come at any minute.
My seconds gave me good attention and I was in pretty fair shape for the opening of the 15th and as it progressed I became stronger. For
Three or four rounds things were pretty even, each of us taking hard punishment. After the 20th my faster work began to bother him and in the 23rd I broke down his guard and finally got inside to land two stiff uppercuts. When he went down it was to stay for many minutes. There was no question about the second knockout.
When I was rubbed down and dressed I looked up the promoter to get the purse.he handed me $33 . Think of that sum for 23 rounds of grueling fighting. Why, in my fight club In Syracuse I have paid from $25 -$75 for each boy in the preliminaries. They now fight with padded gloves in a fine ring and none of the preliminaries went More than 6 rounds. There has been a big change in the 22 yrs since I met Shaughnessy.
While the financial gain was small I believe I got value in other ways. For one thing I had the experience and the other that when a boxer is once given the decision he should leave the ring and not try to earn it a second time. I have always believed luck was with me in the second contest. In my bouts with the railway workers which numbered close to 200 in the three years I usually outclassed my opponent. Such was not the case with Shaughnessy. I learned I must keep my head at all times no matter what the provocation.
The cost of living was not a breakfast table topic in those days and the meager purse I won lasted me a few weeks until I was matched with Mike Dunn. He was rated as the 2nd best lightweight in Detroit The top honours generally being accorded to Shaughnessy. Dunn had a large
Following and when I defeated Shaughnessy he began to demand a match with me. I was needing the money for I had discovered that being a professional pugilist does not bring in the money unless you earn it in the ring. or rather it did not in those days , vaudeville and moving pictures are adjuncts of the modern and not the old ring game. So I took the match with Dunn.
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TheRiverCityHippy
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robert.snell1
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hi
yes ..a far bit to go.should have some more completed shortly...a coffee break first
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The Great John L
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part 4
Part 4
this should start a lively chat on styles etc
How Ryan watched Opponents
While I was training for the bout with Dunn I began to think over the things I had learned in my double fight with Shaughnessy
I had noticed that during the second part of the Shaughnessy fight that I could "keep cases" on my opponent while crouched by watching his left knee. One of my eyes was practically closed during the final nine rounds of the Shaughnessy fight and I found it difficult to maintain the crouch, which I used In my style of fighting, and keep careful watch, on the blows my opponent might try to land on me.
In my bout with the railway man I had noticed that-a man cannot hit a blow with either hand without bending the left knee in some way—it might be. but a twitch or the knee might make a big bend. Use of this knowledge did not come to me until I fought Shaughnessy. And at that time it was a case of necessity being the mother of invention. Like the crouch and footwork, In fact all my boxing, this was my own invention if such a word can be used. I never had a boxing lesson in my life.
For the bout with Mike Dunn I had some assistance in training and I began to make a careful study of that left knee. I got down the tricks of the bends fairly well, though It was two or three years later before I had really mastered them. By that time I could tell by looking at my opponent's left knee just what sort of a blow he would attempt.
Some scientists will doubtless claim that this statement Is In error, and that the only way .to know In advance of the intent to use the muscles of the human body is through looking at the eye. In my opinion, the eye Is sometimes deceptive, but I have never yet had the knee fail me. If a man starts one- blow and then shifts quickly to another, the left knee will "telegraph" the change. I advise the doubting ones to test this for themselves.
But to get back to my bout with Dunn. As I have already stated, he was a great favorite In Detroit at that time and there was a good attendance,
such as attendance went In those days, at our fight, -which was staged In an old Icehouse just outside the Detroit city limits. The ring was built in the center of the big building with four stakes and a few pieces of rope. There was no padded floor and we fought on the tanbark, which Is not the best thing in the world, as any one who has had experience with It can tell. The dust was almost choking at times.The gloves were the ordinary kid gloves with the finger tips cut off and the referee announced that the fight was to be to a finish.
Dunn went at me as if he wanted to make the bout a short one, but I "kept my head" and fought coolly for a few rounds and when he began to
tire I took the aggressive. My crouch was something new to Dunn and he could not solve the trick of landing telling blows, while It enabled me to get under his guard with body punches time and again. These gradually wore him down and be took the count In the ninth, round.There was no question about my victory this time, for Dunn was plainly a beaten man when he was revived and taken to his corner.
My victories over Shaughnessy and Dunn gave me quite a reputation in and around Detroit. I was looked upon as a coming lightweight and began to have quite a little following of my own. And a following is a necessity to a boxer or fighter;, even to this day, for the man without supporters Is hardly considered.
My following gave me some standing with the matchmakers of the Detroit clubs, or perhaps I should have called them promoters, for at that time under the management and direction of one man. He took few risks, for the bouts would be held In the open or In some old building. He had no fat guarantees to make up and no high rents to pay. The men. worked on percentage basis and their earning depended entirely upon their earning powers.
Martin Shaughnessy and his friend started an agitation for another contest and as they soon located a promoter who would stage the affair, I signed the articles. This time I fought upon the bare ground. The ring was staked out on the lakeshore near Detroit and we had quite an audience standing around for there were no ringside reserve seats. The ground was very uneven and this upset my calculations. I knew that I would have no difficulty in knocking him out in a. few rounds. But I had based my estimates upon the showing we made on a board floor and I soon discovered that there is a bit of Difference between boards and earth.
With the firm boards beneath my feet I was able to use some of the tricks of footwork that I had learned. On the ground I found that I could not do this and that I must stand up and exchange blows without much chance of shifting and feinting. Shaughnessy was not as greatly handicapped as I on the ground, for he had little knowledge of footwork and his favorite method was to stand up and wallop away.
I wasn't long in discovering that had a big contest on my hands Shaughnessy could hit a stiff blow and I went to the ground several times
as he did before my punches. The body was the weak spot on Shaughnessy's defence and I began to play for It. while he hammered away indiscriminately any place he saw an opening. For nearly forty rounds the battle was a case of give and take, now in his favor and again in mine. "We were both pretty well battered up, but my opponent seemed to be even more tired than I was and that gave me courage
When the forty-seventh round arrived we were both near that stage of physical exhaustion which Is best known as "all In." I managed to get
my tired legs into action and Shaughnessy seemed dazed in trying to find me. After a hard left to the body Shaughnessy's guard dropped and
Waded in with, a right hook to the point of the jaw and the bout was over
(In the next article, Mr. Ryan tells how he fought for the lightweight
championship of Michigan )
this should start a lively chat on styles etc
How Ryan watched Opponents
While I was training for the bout with Dunn I began to think over the things I had learned in my double fight with Shaughnessy
I had noticed that during the second part of the Shaughnessy fight that I could "keep cases" on my opponent while crouched by watching his left knee. One of my eyes was practically closed during the final nine rounds of the Shaughnessy fight and I found it difficult to maintain the crouch, which I used In my style of fighting, and keep careful watch, on the blows my opponent might try to land on me.
In my bout with the railway man I had noticed that-a man cannot hit a blow with either hand without bending the left knee in some way—it might be. but a twitch or the knee might make a big bend. Use of this knowledge did not come to me until I fought Shaughnessy. And at that time it was a case of necessity being the mother of invention. Like the crouch and footwork, In fact all my boxing, this was my own invention if such a word can be used. I never had a boxing lesson in my life.
For the bout with Mike Dunn I had some assistance in training and I began to make a careful study of that left knee. I got down the tricks of the bends fairly well, though It was two or three years later before I had really mastered them. By that time I could tell by looking at my opponent's left knee just what sort of a blow he would attempt.
Some scientists will doubtless claim that this statement Is In error, and that the only way .to know In advance of the intent to use the muscles of the human body is through looking at the eye. In my opinion, the eye Is sometimes deceptive, but I have never yet had the knee fail me. If a man starts one- blow and then shifts quickly to another, the left knee will "telegraph" the change. I advise the doubting ones to test this for themselves.
But to get back to my bout with Dunn. As I have already stated, he was a great favorite In Detroit at that time and there was a good attendance,
such as attendance went In those days, at our fight, -which was staged In an old Icehouse just outside the Detroit city limits. The ring was built in the center of the big building with four stakes and a few pieces of rope. There was no padded floor and we fought on the tanbark, which Is not the best thing in the world, as any one who has had experience with It can tell. The dust was almost choking at times.The gloves were the ordinary kid gloves with the finger tips cut off and the referee announced that the fight was to be to a finish.
Dunn went at me as if he wanted to make the bout a short one, but I "kept my head" and fought coolly for a few rounds and when he began to
tire I took the aggressive. My crouch was something new to Dunn and he could not solve the trick of landing telling blows, while It enabled me to get under his guard with body punches time and again. These gradually wore him down and be took the count In the ninth, round.There was no question about my victory this time, for Dunn was plainly a beaten man when he was revived and taken to his corner.
My victories over Shaughnessy and Dunn gave me quite a reputation in and around Detroit. I was looked upon as a coming lightweight and began to have quite a little following of my own. And a following is a necessity to a boxer or fighter;, even to this day, for the man without supporters Is hardly considered.
My following gave me some standing with the matchmakers of the Detroit clubs, or perhaps I should have called them promoters, for at that time under the management and direction of one man. He took few risks, for the bouts would be held In the open or In some old building. He had no fat guarantees to make up and no high rents to pay. The men. worked on percentage basis and their earning depended entirely upon their earning powers.
Martin Shaughnessy and his friend started an agitation for another contest and as they soon located a promoter who would stage the affair, I signed the articles. This time I fought upon the bare ground. The ring was staked out on the lakeshore near Detroit and we had quite an audience standing around for there were no ringside reserve seats. The ground was very uneven and this upset my calculations. I knew that I would have no difficulty in knocking him out in a. few rounds. But I had based my estimates upon the showing we made on a board floor and I soon discovered that there is a bit of Difference between boards and earth.
With the firm boards beneath my feet I was able to use some of the tricks of footwork that I had learned. On the ground I found that I could not do this and that I must stand up and exchange blows without much chance of shifting and feinting. Shaughnessy was not as greatly handicapped as I on the ground, for he had little knowledge of footwork and his favorite method was to stand up and wallop away.
I wasn't long in discovering that had a big contest on my hands Shaughnessy could hit a stiff blow and I went to the ground several times
as he did before my punches. The body was the weak spot on Shaughnessy's defence and I began to play for It. while he hammered away indiscriminately any place he saw an opening. For nearly forty rounds the battle was a case of give and take, now in his favor and again in mine. "We were both pretty well battered up, but my opponent seemed to be even more tired than I was and that gave me courage
When the forty-seventh round arrived we were both near that stage of physical exhaustion which Is best known as "all In." I managed to get
my tired legs into action and Shaughnessy seemed dazed in trying to find me. After a hard left to the body Shaughnessy's guard dropped and
Waded in with, a right hook to the point of the jaw and the bout was over
(In the next article, Mr. Ryan tells how he fought for the lightweight
championship of Michigan )
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
part 5
part 5
The prestige I had gained through my victories over Shaughnessy and Dunn was considerable. I was something more than a “Mere Unknown” and the sporting writers began to take notice of my work. More than one critic undertook to show just why that crouch I used in the ring was going to o do me more harm .than good. Every boxer or fighter Has one little trick, some have more. These little tricks soon become known To the followers of the game and are much talked and written about. In my case it was the crouch and to a lesser extent my footwork. in later years some of the really wise critics came to see that each was in a large measure dependent upon the other and that of the two the footwork was the more important.
At this time jimmy Murphy was heavyweight champion of the state of Michigan ..he was much feared by the lightweight division because Of his terrible punch and soon trimmed out the list of title aspirants . I was looked upon as one of the best, if not the very best in Detroit, and the newspapers began to talk of a bout between Murphy and myself. I considered the matter carefully and came to the conclusion that I could beat Murphy despite his title and reputation.
I challenged Murphy to meet me for a title and a side bet and , thinking that I was another presumptuous upstart quickly accepted.the bout was to be a finish as were all the early fights in which I participated. The bout took place at Carroll’s Road House just outside grand rapids, Michigan And was attended by a large crowd, such as crowds at boxing bouts in those days went.
Murphy was a big favorite. In fact there were very few who conceded me to have even a chance, but the odds of three, four and five to one that the Murphy followers were offering induced a number of prominent sporting men from Detroit who had seen my bouts there to take my end. There are in this world a great many people who never pass up a bet at liberal odds and quite a number of these people found their way to the ringside and took my end of the betting. As a result the betting on the bout was heavy. All around the ring there spectators jumping up offering a hundred against twenty five, or some such bet. they were even betting two to one that I would not last twenty rounds.
The bout took place on a Saturday evening and there was an awful jam at the ringside. I soon discovered that the Michigan champion was a clever boxer and an exceptionally hard hitter. His right was the best I ever saw in all my ring career. He would hold it in readiness while it seemed to quiver, and when an opening came would drive it home. I could not call it a swing, a hook or an uppercut. It was a peculiar blow and I think the name drive distinguishes it as well as any. And how it would carry weight. I doubt If there is any modern boxer or fighter of his weight who can hit as hard as Murphy could in his prime.
In fact I believe a few of the” young men about town” in New York at the present time can Testify regarding Murphy’s punch, for when I last heard of Murphy he was running A physical culture school in New York for select pupils.
But to get back to the fight. It was a tough affair – one of the toughest I ever had in the 19yrs I was active in the ring. Now Murphy would take advantage and again the pendulum of fortune would swing. each took awful punishment and the thin gloves we wore were splattered with blood. Several times I hit the hard boards which formed the floor of the ring. Just as often did I send Murphy down, .it was a case of give and take.
I think it was about the 33rd round that we sparred for a period. I thought I saw a chance to land a right. To do this I dropped my Left but Murphy beat me to the punch .that didn’t seem to have to be drawn back at all, it seemed to stand straight at me and Landed with the weight of a sledge hammer. The blow struck me on the bridge of the nose, breaking it. I didn’t fall backward – I almost turned flip flop as the boys call it and landed on the back of my head.I was pretty well dazed and I could see the swing of the referees arm.
I was on my feet at the count of 8 looking for my opponent. ifound him over in the corner reaching out his hand to Lavigne, one of his seconds, to strip off the Blood soaked glove. The bandages around the wrist had already been loosened when someone shouted to Murphy that I was crossing the ring. He quickly got on the defence but not before I had planted a couple of telling blows on the stomach.
Murphy told me afterwards that he thought the fight was over when he landed that right and he was taken unawares when I started after him. I kept this slight advantage and though my nose was giving me terrible pain I kept boring in. I was very careful however not to lower my guard and that awful blow of his taught me never to lower my left to land my right.
Whenever Murphy would close in on me I would jab and peck with my Left and this gave him a lot of trouble. It was nearing midnight and the advent of Sunday. Those who had bet large sums on Murphy began to get uneasy for they saw that I was plainly wearing down the champion. Sitting at the ringside all evening was the Sheriff .he was perfectly at ease and puffed a big black cigar. Any idea that the fight was transgressing on the laws of Michigan seemed entirely foreign to him. However, some of Murphys energetic backers soon began to take the Sheriff to the back of the crowd I afterwards leant more than one of these little Sessions took place.
It was after midnight when the last occurred. the sheriff ponderously made his way to the ring, climbed between the ropes and announced the fight was stopped. that he did not believe in desecrating the Sabbath with a prize fight.it was a noble little speech he made and brought a cheer from the men who had money on Murphy. My supports kicked, but what was the use, the man with the star had the big say .Murphy was all in and hanging on and I could of finished him in a couple of more rounds. As
It was the bout was stopped in the 57th round and all bets were declared off.
The prestige I had gained through my victories over Shaughnessy and Dunn was considerable. I was something more than a “Mere Unknown” and the sporting writers began to take notice of my work. More than one critic undertook to show just why that crouch I used in the ring was going to o do me more harm .than good. Every boxer or fighter Has one little trick, some have more. These little tricks soon become known To the followers of the game and are much talked and written about. In my case it was the crouch and to a lesser extent my footwork. in later years some of the really wise critics came to see that each was in a large measure dependent upon the other and that of the two the footwork was the more important.
At this time jimmy Murphy was heavyweight champion of the state of Michigan ..he was much feared by the lightweight division because Of his terrible punch and soon trimmed out the list of title aspirants . I was looked upon as one of the best, if not the very best in Detroit, and the newspapers began to talk of a bout between Murphy and myself. I considered the matter carefully and came to the conclusion that I could beat Murphy despite his title and reputation.
I challenged Murphy to meet me for a title and a side bet and , thinking that I was another presumptuous upstart quickly accepted.the bout was to be a finish as were all the early fights in which I participated. The bout took place at Carroll’s Road House just outside grand rapids, Michigan And was attended by a large crowd, such as crowds at boxing bouts in those days went.
Murphy was a big favorite. In fact there were very few who conceded me to have even a chance, but the odds of three, four and five to one that the Murphy followers were offering induced a number of prominent sporting men from Detroit who had seen my bouts there to take my end. There are in this world a great many people who never pass up a bet at liberal odds and quite a number of these people found their way to the ringside and took my end of the betting. As a result the betting on the bout was heavy. All around the ring there spectators jumping up offering a hundred against twenty five, or some such bet. they were even betting two to one that I would not last twenty rounds.
The bout took place on a Saturday evening and there was an awful jam at the ringside. I soon discovered that the Michigan champion was a clever boxer and an exceptionally hard hitter. His right was the best I ever saw in all my ring career. He would hold it in readiness while it seemed to quiver, and when an opening came would drive it home. I could not call it a swing, a hook or an uppercut. It was a peculiar blow and I think the name drive distinguishes it as well as any. And how it would carry weight. I doubt If there is any modern boxer or fighter of his weight who can hit as hard as Murphy could in his prime.
In fact I believe a few of the” young men about town” in New York at the present time can Testify regarding Murphy’s punch, for when I last heard of Murphy he was running A physical culture school in New York for select pupils.
But to get back to the fight. It was a tough affair – one of the toughest I ever had in the 19yrs I was active in the ring. Now Murphy would take advantage and again the pendulum of fortune would swing. each took awful punishment and the thin gloves we wore were splattered with blood. Several times I hit the hard boards which formed the floor of the ring. Just as often did I send Murphy down, .it was a case of give and take.
I think it was about the 33rd round that we sparred for a period. I thought I saw a chance to land a right. To do this I dropped my Left but Murphy beat me to the punch .that didn’t seem to have to be drawn back at all, it seemed to stand straight at me and Landed with the weight of a sledge hammer. The blow struck me on the bridge of the nose, breaking it. I didn’t fall backward – I almost turned flip flop as the boys call it and landed on the back of my head.I was pretty well dazed and I could see the swing of the referees arm.
I was on my feet at the count of 8 looking for my opponent. ifound him over in the corner reaching out his hand to Lavigne, one of his seconds, to strip off the Blood soaked glove. The bandages around the wrist had already been loosened when someone shouted to Murphy that I was crossing the ring. He quickly got on the defence but not before I had planted a couple of telling blows on the stomach.
Murphy told me afterwards that he thought the fight was over when he landed that right and he was taken unawares when I started after him. I kept this slight advantage and though my nose was giving me terrible pain I kept boring in. I was very careful however not to lower my guard and that awful blow of his taught me never to lower my left to land my right.
Whenever Murphy would close in on me I would jab and peck with my Left and this gave him a lot of trouble. It was nearing midnight and the advent of Sunday. Those who had bet large sums on Murphy began to get uneasy for they saw that I was plainly wearing down the champion. Sitting at the ringside all evening was the Sheriff .he was perfectly at ease and puffed a big black cigar. Any idea that the fight was transgressing on the laws of Michigan seemed entirely foreign to him. However, some of Murphys energetic backers soon began to take the Sheriff to the back of the crowd I afterwards leant more than one of these little Sessions took place.
It was after midnight when the last occurred. the sheriff ponderously made his way to the ring, climbed between the ropes and announced the fight was stopped. that he did not believe in desecrating the Sabbath with a prize fight.it was a noble little speech he made and brought a cheer from the men who had money on Murphy. My supports kicked, but what was the use, the man with the star had the big say .Murphy was all in and hanging on and I could of finished him in a couple of more rounds. As
It was the bout was stopped in the 57th round and all bets were declared off.
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
yes
yes there is a lot more yet and hope to have some completed later on today.there is a lot of really good materail from him and others of that era and will be doing several of these in future. the odd thing is that looking around the web your don't find much detail - aside from this lot - about him.
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
part 6
Part 6
VI RYAN DEFEATS A HEAVYWEIGHT.
BEFORE THAT YEAR, 1889. was out, I got another chance at Jimmy Murphy, but again I found that " influence" sometimes has a lot to do
with the winning or losing of a boxing match. As 1 stated In my last article. Murphy was lightweight champion of Michigan and all champions have their friends—as long as they have the title and money to spend.
The second bout with Murphy was arranged to take place near Grand Rapids. My first fight .had been to a finish, or so the articles read, while
the second was to be an eight-round affair with kid gloves.. It was advertised as an "exhibition" but both Murphy and myself realized
that it was to be a real battle.
I had gained a pretty thorough knowledge of Murphy's ring tactics in my 57-round battle with him. and when we met for the second time I went into the ring with my campaign well mapped out. For one thing, I was determined that Murphy should not get another chance to land his terrible right. and throughout the bout I was able to keep him from using that hand to the best advantage.
According to the way I had figured things out Murphy's body was his weakness and I Immediately began to play for that, and bothered him a lot with a straight left to the face. Knowing that the bout was not to be a long one, I forced the fighting and here my fast footwork stood me in good stead.
I found an opening in the fourth round and sent him to the floor with a fusillade of blows. But the referee was a follower of the Murphy gang. He assisted the fallen champion to his feet and was very slow in tolling off his count. I immediately went after Murphy when he regained his feet and but for the assistance he received from the referee I would have knocked him out in that round.
For the remaining four rounds I had Murphy stalling all the time and the referee seen to it that I did not have any to many chances to land the finishing punch. As a result Murphy lasted the 8 rounds . no decision was given but Murphy always insisted afterwards that the bout was a draw. I, and my followers, looked upon it as a victory.
My showing with the lightweight champion made the other little fellows a bit wary of mixing with me. I was not particular about the weights, however, and when I could get no other lightweight bouts I began to look for the bigger men. The recognized champion of Michigan at that time was Henry Baker. He weighed about 170 pounds and had a good reputation. I had been after a Grand Rapids promoter to get me some more bouts but when he offered me the match with Baker my friends all begged me not to take It, for they thought I would stand no chance against the big fellow. However I accepted. I may have been a "bit swelled” over my success in other bouts and. Perhaps not give the proper consideration to the big weight difference Anyway the match was made and it was up to me to get Into condition.
I weighed, when properly trained, about 130 pounds at that time and instead of training down as I had for the lightweights, I decided that I would try and put on weight and still retain my strength and speed. As a result of this I went Into the ring with Baker close to 140 pounds. He had an advantage of thirty pounds or more In weight, longer reach, and greater height.
Baker had a good right hand. In fact, the right seemed to be the fighting hand of a good many of the old time fighters. He was willing to mix
heartily and landed me on the floor In the first round with a right swing. Fighting In my usual crouching position I played for the stomach and
landed some effective blows. The crowd which jammed the old Icehouse at Reid lake thought that I had tackled too much, for body blows do not show as much as those to the head and face.
In the second round, Baker landed another right swing and again I went down, but before the end of the round I had him covering up, for I was mad enough to tear in at him, regardless of the consequences. The low rush troubled him, for few fighters fought in a crouch In these days and Baker did not know how to guard effectively against my style of fighting.
I realized that the additional weight would give Baker a big advantage in a long fight. so when the third round commenced I started to make a quick finish. Slamming rights and lefts to the body and poking an occasional straight left to the face, I kept the big fellow backing until he was all in and then a smash to the jaw sent him down for the count. .The heavyweight champion of Michigan had gone down to defeat before an almost unknown lightweight.
Grand Rapids fans began to claim me as one, of “their own” I became the most popular boxer In the hustling little city and had plenty of backing both in the matter of friends and finances, after I had disposed of Baker. Such is always the case. The public likes a winner and while he is on top they idolize him. but no maiden was ever more fickle and once a champion is defeated he quickly goes into oblivion.
Some people may question the statement that Baker was a heavyweight. To the. doubtful ones I would say to look up the record of James J Jeffries, the former heavyweight champion of the world. In the list of Jeffries fights, they will find the name of Henry Baker, who was knocked out by Jeffries in nine rounds at San Francisco on May. 19th 1837, This was the same man I fought and defeated at Reid Lake.
Chris Christopher was the next opponent dug up for me by the Grand Rapids promoters. Christopher, was a popular middle weight he had a good punch and had been winning most of his bouts by the knockout route and was strong enough to go the distance. The fight was to be to a finish and took place just outside the Grand Rapids city limits. I found that Christopher was not very, fast on his feet and quickly decided that I could win before many rounds by tiring him out despite his advantage in 8 of 18 or 20 rounds.
I started in by jabbing, hooking and getting away before Christopher could land effectively and most of his blows found me going away from them, thus depriving them of their, "heft.". He tried to follow me and imitate my foot work, but no man should try that unless he has trained and practiced it "carefully”. Christopher soon became tangled in his own foot work and in the eighth round; I went in to land the finishing punch.
In the .next article Mr. Ryan tells of his-arrival. In Chicago-and of several bouts near that city.)
VI RYAN DEFEATS A HEAVYWEIGHT.
BEFORE THAT YEAR, 1889. was out, I got another chance at Jimmy Murphy, but again I found that " influence" sometimes has a lot to do
with the winning or losing of a boxing match. As 1 stated In my last article. Murphy was lightweight champion of Michigan and all champions have their friends—as long as they have the title and money to spend.
The second bout with Murphy was arranged to take place near Grand Rapids. My first fight .had been to a finish, or so the articles read, while
the second was to be an eight-round affair with kid gloves.. It was advertised as an "exhibition" but both Murphy and myself realized
that it was to be a real battle.
I had gained a pretty thorough knowledge of Murphy's ring tactics in my 57-round battle with him. and when we met for the second time I went into the ring with my campaign well mapped out. For one thing, I was determined that Murphy should not get another chance to land his terrible right. and throughout the bout I was able to keep him from using that hand to the best advantage.
According to the way I had figured things out Murphy's body was his weakness and I Immediately began to play for that, and bothered him a lot with a straight left to the face. Knowing that the bout was not to be a long one, I forced the fighting and here my fast footwork stood me in good stead.
I found an opening in the fourth round and sent him to the floor with a fusillade of blows. But the referee was a follower of the Murphy gang. He assisted the fallen champion to his feet and was very slow in tolling off his count. I immediately went after Murphy when he regained his feet and but for the assistance he received from the referee I would have knocked him out in that round.
For the remaining four rounds I had Murphy stalling all the time and the referee seen to it that I did not have any to many chances to land the finishing punch. As a result Murphy lasted the 8 rounds . no decision was given but Murphy always insisted afterwards that the bout was a draw. I, and my followers, looked upon it as a victory.
My showing with the lightweight champion made the other little fellows a bit wary of mixing with me. I was not particular about the weights, however, and when I could get no other lightweight bouts I began to look for the bigger men. The recognized champion of Michigan at that time was Henry Baker. He weighed about 170 pounds and had a good reputation. I had been after a Grand Rapids promoter to get me some more bouts but when he offered me the match with Baker my friends all begged me not to take It, for they thought I would stand no chance against the big fellow. However I accepted. I may have been a "bit swelled” over my success in other bouts and. Perhaps not give the proper consideration to the big weight difference Anyway the match was made and it was up to me to get Into condition.
I weighed, when properly trained, about 130 pounds at that time and instead of training down as I had for the lightweights, I decided that I would try and put on weight and still retain my strength and speed. As a result of this I went Into the ring with Baker close to 140 pounds. He had an advantage of thirty pounds or more In weight, longer reach, and greater height.
Baker had a good right hand. In fact, the right seemed to be the fighting hand of a good many of the old time fighters. He was willing to mix
heartily and landed me on the floor In the first round with a right swing. Fighting In my usual crouching position I played for the stomach and
landed some effective blows. The crowd which jammed the old Icehouse at Reid lake thought that I had tackled too much, for body blows do not show as much as those to the head and face.
In the second round, Baker landed another right swing and again I went down, but before the end of the round I had him covering up, for I was mad enough to tear in at him, regardless of the consequences. The low rush troubled him, for few fighters fought in a crouch In these days and Baker did not know how to guard effectively against my style of fighting.
I realized that the additional weight would give Baker a big advantage in a long fight. so when the third round commenced I started to make a quick finish. Slamming rights and lefts to the body and poking an occasional straight left to the face, I kept the big fellow backing until he was all in and then a smash to the jaw sent him down for the count. .The heavyweight champion of Michigan had gone down to defeat before an almost unknown lightweight.
Grand Rapids fans began to claim me as one, of “their own” I became the most popular boxer In the hustling little city and had plenty of backing both in the matter of friends and finances, after I had disposed of Baker. Such is always the case. The public likes a winner and while he is on top they idolize him. but no maiden was ever more fickle and once a champion is defeated he quickly goes into oblivion.
Some people may question the statement that Baker was a heavyweight. To the. doubtful ones I would say to look up the record of James J Jeffries, the former heavyweight champion of the world. In the list of Jeffries fights, they will find the name of Henry Baker, who was knocked out by Jeffries in nine rounds at San Francisco on May. 19th 1837, This was the same man I fought and defeated at Reid Lake.
Chris Christopher was the next opponent dug up for me by the Grand Rapids promoters. Christopher, was a popular middle weight he had a good punch and had been winning most of his bouts by the knockout route and was strong enough to go the distance. The fight was to be to a finish and took place just outside the Grand Rapids city limits. I found that Christopher was not very, fast on his feet and quickly decided that I could win before many rounds by tiring him out despite his advantage in 8 of 18 or 20 rounds.
I started in by jabbing, hooking and getting away before Christopher could land effectively and most of his blows found me going away from them, thus depriving them of their, "heft.". He tried to follow me and imitate my foot work, but no man should try that unless he has trained and practiced it "carefully”. Christopher soon became tangled in his own foot work and in the eighth round; I went in to land the finishing punch.
In the .next article Mr. Ryan tells of his-arrival. In Chicago-and of several bouts near that city.)
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
oops
a small error on my part when i said there were 7 articles..there are 19 of them on his career. so this will be a bit of a long thread !!!
only for the dedicated reader me thinks.
however..as I will have all of this on a word document and clearly have the original reports should you wish to have copies please conact me and i will send them to you.
when i finish them !!!
only for the dedicated reader me thinks.
however..as I will have all of this on a word document and clearly have the original reports should you wish to have copies please conact me and i will send them to you.
when i finish them !!!
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
Re: oops
Great, I can't wait to read all 19!!!robert.snell1 wrote:a small error on my part when i said there were 7 articles..there are 19 of them on his career. so this will be a bit of a long thread !!!
only for the dedicated reader me thinks.
however..as I will have all of this on a word document and clearly have the original reports should you wish to have copies please conact me and i will send them to you.
when i finish them !!!
Thanks
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
Re: oops
thanks i am pleased that you have liked reading them as much I have. should keep me going for quite a while. As you will be aware several boxers worked for the press in this fashion so hope to get some others.The Great John L wrote:Great, I can't wait to read all 19!!!robert.snell1 wrote:a small error on my part when i said there were 7 articles..there are 19 of them on his career. so this will be a bit of a long thread !!!
only for the dedicated reader me thinks.
however..as I will have all of this on a word document and clearly have the original reports should you wish to have copies please conact me and i will send them to you.
when i finish them !!!
Thanks
did they actually write them is a question worth asking. was it a ghost writer putting the articles together. they seem a bit to polished to me.
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
Re: oops
i thought that rob, they seem very professionally written with a good tempo to the story, there`s no parts where he waffles a bit which is difficult to do for an untrained or inexperienced writer, if i was a betting man, which i am now and again, i`d say they were ghost written.robert.snell1 wrote:thanks i am pleased that you have liked reading them as much I have. should keep me going for quite a while. As you will be aware several boxers worked for the press in this fashion so hope to get some others.The Great John L wrote:Great, I can't wait to read all 19!!!robert.snell1 wrote:a small error on my part when i said there were 7 articles..there are 19 of them on his career. so this will be a bit of a long thread !!!
only for the dedicated reader me thinks.
however..as I will have all of this on a word document and clearly have the original reports should you wish to have copies please conact me and i will send them to you.
when i finish them !!!
Thanks
did they actually write them is a question worth asking. was it a ghost writer putting the articles together. they seem a bit to polished to me.
it`s a great read, thanks for the time and effort you`re putting into this one mate.
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
more detail
thanks mate, i do agree that the style etc does make you feel this not the man writing this it is not the average guy writing. However i do think it is of great value to see what he felt of the events.
as i mentioned there are are lot of articles and aside from the set which i have - 19 - i am aware that there are a lot more so this could get to be on a big scale folks. i did find a good artice on him over at the CBZ by Tracy Callis - and hope that putting this material on will enable a better bio of the man to be available.
as i mentioned there are are lot of articles and aside from the set which i have - 19 - i am aware that there are a lot more so this could get to be on a big scale folks. i did find a good artice on him over at the CBZ by Tracy Callis - and hope that putting this material on will enable a better bio of the man to be available.
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
thanks
thanks very much on both counts barry. they are a great set of articles and take some reading for sure.I really appreciate you helping with the puxxle regards my dad.....he would be quite amused by all this. my older brother said he is sure dad told him but he cannot remember the details.
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
part 7
Part 7
CHICAGO WAS AT THAT TIME the mecca of the fighters. The spring of 1890 found most all the ring stars of note making their home or
headquarters In the Illinois city.
I had cleaned up practically all the available lightweights and welterweights in Michigan. Of course there were many I did not meet but they looked up my record and found many reasons why a match with me was not advisable. It was no easy job for a young fighter to break into the ranks in Chicago in those days. The fight fans knew a large number of boxers who furnished practically all the mills there at that time and they looked askance at any newcomer.
After thoroughly canvassing the promoters I finally got a bout with Johnny Mclnerssy, a young welterweight, who was well spoken of by the fight critics. Fortunately for me, the bout was staged at the Chicago Board of Trade, where many of the big fights of those clays were taking place. This enabled me to get in action before the right kind of people, for the Board of Trade bouts drew patronage from the business and professional classes of the city.
But to get back to the bout itself—the big auditorium was well filled when we entered the ring. Mclnerssy's friends were in the majority, as is always the case when a home boy boxes a stranger. When we had been In action for a minute I discovered that Mclnerssy was a willing youngster whose chief idea of boxing seemed to be to rush and try to land a luck swing. Of scientific boxing he knew very little.
It was not very difficult for me to jab him in the face with my left every time he rushed while I made good use of my right to the body when he was close. When the fourth round was over I saw that I could finish the bout almost any time I desired so took the aggressive in the fifth session. The Chicagoan became bewildered by my footwork and I landed almost at will in the first two minutes of that round. a left hook to the jaw finally dropping Mclnerssy for the count.
While McTnerssy was no champion, he was well thought of by the Chicago fans and I began to gain some popularity when I defeated him. They reasoned that I could not be a "bloomer” and began to take a bit of stock in the accounts of my work which had gone out from Grand Rapids and Detroit.
My next bout in Chicago was a double affair. That Is, I was to meet two men in the same ring in the same evening. The padded gloves had come Into use by that time and knockouts were not so easy as they had been. But I agreed to stop both men. The club selected Bob Harper, a
middleweight, and Professor McGuire, a boxing instructor who tipped the scales at about 150 pounds.
Taking on Harper first, I had little difficulty in stopping him in four rounds. The boxing instructor sat at the ringside and watched that bout and when he crawled between the ropes to meet me ten minutes later he had figured out some sort of a plan of battle. McGuire evidently figured it out that he could be as clever as I but he failed to take into account the fact that while I was showing cleverness in my aggressive work against Harper, I was not called upon the display my whole bag of defensive tricks.
Consequently, Mr. McGuire can be forgiven for being surprised when his carefully calculated blows swished through the air while I ducked and landed counterblows. Mr. McGuire was further surprised in the third round when I stretched him out for the count of ten.
Beating three men in twelve rounds further added to my popularity in Chicago. A more formidable opponent was sought and finally arrangements were made for a match with Con Doyle. Doyle, at that time, was aspiring for the welterweight champion and he was recognized as the best man in that class In the State of Illinois.
This fight was to have "some class" and It was deemed a bit too important to stage In Chicago, where there was always fear of police interference. As a result, it took place In a small town just across the State line in Indiana, The name of the town I now forget but I know that it was within easy railroad distance of Chicago and excursion trains carried the fans from the big city to the ringside.
Doyle was no such sap as my other opponents from Chicago had proven. He was clever, had a nice shift, could use his feet a bit and hit a very hard blow. For nearly twenty rounds we battled fiercely, with the honors about even. Doyle was of. the aggressive type and his courage and gameness seemed to be without any limit. I was unable to land many effective body blows, but my old standby, the straight left, proved a puzzler for my opponent. Every time Doyle came at me, that left would jab him in the face and I took a large number of swings just to be able to land this jab.
Somewhere around the twenty-first round I had closed Doyle's left eye so that he could not sue out of It. Let me say right here that when a boxer's left eye is closed he loses more than half of his effectiveness as far as eyesight is concerned. With, only one eye in use, Doyle began to change his tactics. He carefully guarded his good and right eye. I landed by Jabs as often as I could, but he was wary and I got few chances.
In the twenty-sixth round I landed a good blow flush on the optic and had the pleasure of seeing It start to swell and close and In the next round I devoted an my attention to It with the result that when Doyle went to his corner his seconds tried every trick known at that time In an effort to reduce the swelling.
When Doyle came up in the twenty eighth Round he was practically blind for both eyes were closed and puffed up. He had to Judge my position largely by his hearing and I plugged away at will. I had taken my share of the beating and I was not anxious to let the bout go any farther. Seeing that I had Doyle at my mercy, his seconds tossed the sponge Into the ring as a token of defeat and thus ended one of the toughest bouts of my ring career against one of the gamest men I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
While boxing gloves were then coming Into use, my bout with Doyle took place with gloves which could only have been called padded by the greatest stretch of the Imagination.
(In the next article Mr. Ryan tells of the bouts which led up to the championship contest with Needham.)
CHICAGO WAS AT THAT TIME the mecca of the fighters. The spring of 1890 found most all the ring stars of note making their home or
headquarters In the Illinois city.
I had cleaned up practically all the available lightweights and welterweights in Michigan. Of course there were many I did not meet but they looked up my record and found many reasons why a match with me was not advisable. It was no easy job for a young fighter to break into the ranks in Chicago in those days. The fight fans knew a large number of boxers who furnished practically all the mills there at that time and they looked askance at any newcomer.
After thoroughly canvassing the promoters I finally got a bout with Johnny Mclnerssy, a young welterweight, who was well spoken of by the fight critics. Fortunately for me, the bout was staged at the Chicago Board of Trade, where many of the big fights of those clays were taking place. This enabled me to get in action before the right kind of people, for the Board of Trade bouts drew patronage from the business and professional classes of the city.
But to get back to the bout itself—the big auditorium was well filled when we entered the ring. Mclnerssy's friends were in the majority, as is always the case when a home boy boxes a stranger. When we had been In action for a minute I discovered that Mclnerssy was a willing youngster whose chief idea of boxing seemed to be to rush and try to land a luck swing. Of scientific boxing he knew very little.
It was not very difficult for me to jab him in the face with my left every time he rushed while I made good use of my right to the body when he was close. When the fourth round was over I saw that I could finish the bout almost any time I desired so took the aggressive in the fifth session. The Chicagoan became bewildered by my footwork and I landed almost at will in the first two minutes of that round. a left hook to the jaw finally dropping Mclnerssy for the count.
While McTnerssy was no champion, he was well thought of by the Chicago fans and I began to gain some popularity when I defeated him. They reasoned that I could not be a "bloomer” and began to take a bit of stock in the accounts of my work which had gone out from Grand Rapids and Detroit.
My next bout in Chicago was a double affair. That Is, I was to meet two men in the same ring in the same evening. The padded gloves had come Into use by that time and knockouts were not so easy as they had been. But I agreed to stop both men. The club selected Bob Harper, a
middleweight, and Professor McGuire, a boxing instructor who tipped the scales at about 150 pounds.
Taking on Harper first, I had little difficulty in stopping him in four rounds. The boxing instructor sat at the ringside and watched that bout and when he crawled between the ropes to meet me ten minutes later he had figured out some sort of a plan of battle. McGuire evidently figured it out that he could be as clever as I but he failed to take into account the fact that while I was showing cleverness in my aggressive work against Harper, I was not called upon the display my whole bag of defensive tricks.
Consequently, Mr. McGuire can be forgiven for being surprised when his carefully calculated blows swished through the air while I ducked and landed counterblows. Mr. McGuire was further surprised in the third round when I stretched him out for the count of ten.
Beating three men in twelve rounds further added to my popularity in Chicago. A more formidable opponent was sought and finally arrangements were made for a match with Con Doyle. Doyle, at that time, was aspiring for the welterweight champion and he was recognized as the best man in that class In the State of Illinois.
This fight was to have "some class" and It was deemed a bit too important to stage In Chicago, where there was always fear of police interference. As a result, it took place In a small town just across the State line in Indiana, The name of the town I now forget but I know that it was within easy railroad distance of Chicago and excursion trains carried the fans from the big city to the ringside.
Doyle was no such sap as my other opponents from Chicago had proven. He was clever, had a nice shift, could use his feet a bit and hit a very hard blow. For nearly twenty rounds we battled fiercely, with the honors about even. Doyle was of. the aggressive type and his courage and gameness seemed to be without any limit. I was unable to land many effective body blows, but my old standby, the straight left, proved a puzzler for my opponent. Every time Doyle came at me, that left would jab him in the face and I took a large number of swings just to be able to land this jab.
Somewhere around the twenty-first round I had closed Doyle's left eye so that he could not sue out of It. Let me say right here that when a boxer's left eye is closed he loses more than half of his effectiveness as far as eyesight is concerned. With, only one eye in use, Doyle began to change his tactics. He carefully guarded his good and right eye. I landed by Jabs as often as I could, but he was wary and I got few chances.
In the twenty-sixth round I landed a good blow flush on the optic and had the pleasure of seeing It start to swell and close and In the next round I devoted an my attention to It with the result that when Doyle went to his corner his seconds tried every trick known at that time In an effort to reduce the swelling.
When Doyle came up in the twenty eighth Round he was practically blind for both eyes were closed and puffed up. He had to Judge my position largely by his hearing and I plugged away at will. I had taken my share of the beating and I was not anxious to let the bout go any farther. Seeing that I had Doyle at my mercy, his seconds tossed the sponge Into the ring as a token of defeat and thus ended one of the toughest bouts of my ring career against one of the gamest men I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
While boxing gloves were then coming Into use, my bout with Doyle took place with gloves which could only have been called padded by the greatest stretch of the Imagination.
(In the next article Mr. Ryan tells of the bouts which led up to the championship contest with Needham.)
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robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
question
to be honest i do not think he is the writer of this.it states he is but that means nothing as we are all aware. he did loads of these for the same paper and at first i thought ther were just the 19 as this is the title of the articles. however it looks like there are more and will clarify this later on.
several boxers did this and i think it is reasonable to asume they talked to a guy and he wrote up the story.
several boxers did this and i think it is reasonable to asume they talked to a guy and he wrote up the story.
Re: question
Yes thats what I thought... Boxing News did these sort of lifestory articles in the 40s and 50s... I know your busy mate but if you could do me a cd of some of this stuff some time it would make my day!...robert.snell1 wrote:to be honest i do not think he is the writer of this.it states he is but that means nothing as we are all aware. he did loads of these for the same paper and at first i thought ther were just the 19 as this is the title of the articles. however it looks like there are more and will clarify this later on.
several boxers did this and i think it is reasonable to asume they talked to a guy and he wrote up the story.
8)-
robert.snell1
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1141
- Joined: 16 Oct 2003, 07:56
ok
no problem mate will send one next week to you with all the downloads. got around 40 or so on this guy at the moment and as usual they have articles by other people on the page etc. will include the other things i did recently also.
will email you later mate
will be interested to get your take on whether he wrote them..
will email you later mate
will be interested to get your take on whether he wrote them..
Re: ok
Cheers mate!... he may not have wrote them, probably they were done like interviews... but he certainly sounds like an intelligent and eloquent man... reminds me a bit of the Corbett autobiog I have and he was said to have penned it by himself...robert.snell1 wrote:no problem mate will send one next week to you with all the downloads. got around 40 or so on this guy at the moment and as usual they have articles by other people on the page etc. will include the other things i did recently also.
will email you later mate
will be interested to get your take on whether he wrote them..
The Nelson book is very well written...