Moses Itauma: what’s next?

[mickey1975]

Isn't he retired?

Apparently not. He would definitely give him rounds. It would be a good 10 rounder. The problem is TV aren't looking for that.

Has Hughie Fury ever been in a 10-12 rounder that someone described as ‘good’ at the end of the fight.

Not sure. I know he's been 12 three times with world class fighters without ever looking hurt.

[Tony1244]

Itauma lost it rather than Hrg winning it. Hrg hadn't won a round, he only won because Moses punched himself to a standstill. He done well to take the shots and hang on but he really only had success because Moses threw it away.

Yet Ali did this against foreman and he’s considered a genius… Michael Watson was lauded for his tactics over Benn. I mean pacing yourself and having a realistic game plan going in is part of boxing. Hrgovic had the perfect game plan - use his experience to get through the early rounds, whilst Itauma works hard, once Moses starts tiring Hrgovic upped his work rate and started to pressure and land. You could see Filip start landing from round 3 - though he realised Itauma wasn’t ready to go. Hrgovic controlled the fight and paced himself even though Moses was winning the rounds Hrg was landing and getting closer. He then bullied and bashed up an exhausted Itauma. I don’t buy the “Itauma lost the fight, Hrgovic don’t win it" narrative.

I don't think Ali was a genius for beating Foreman, he had a gameplay to tire Foreman out but Foreman still fought a silly fight. Plus Ali was ahead on all three scorecards. I would bet if Foreman and Benn had rematches with Ali and Watson they wouldn't fight the same way. I'm not saying Hrg deserves no credit, of course not but the main reason he won was more what Moses did to himself, Hrg just had the experience to take advantage when Moses ran out of ideas and steam.

How should Foeman have fought Ali?

[Controversial]

Yet Ali did this against foreman and he’s considered a genius… Michael Watson was lauded for his tactics over Benn. I mean pacing yourself and having a realistic game plan going in is part of boxing. Hrgovic had the perfect game plan - use his experience to get through the early rounds, whilst Itauma works hard, once Moses starts tiring Hrgovic upped his work rate and started to pressure and land. You could see Filip start landing from round 3 - though he realised Itauma wasn’t ready to go. Hrgovic controlled the fight and paced himself even though Moses was winning the rounds Hrg was landing and getting closer. He then bullied and bashed up an exhausted Itauma. I don’t buy the “Itauma lost the fight, Hrgovic don’t win it" narrative.

I don't think Ali was a genius for beating Foreman, he had a gameplay to tire Foreman out but Foreman still fought a silly fight. Plus Ali was ahead on all three scorecards. I would bet if Foreman and Benn had rematches with Ali and Watson they wouldn't fight the same way. I'm not saying Hrg deserves no credit, of course not but the main reason he won was more what Moses did to himself, Hrg just had the experience to take advantage when Moses ran out of ideas and steam.

How should Foeman have fought Ali?

Maybe loading up and hitting his arms for round after round as Ali sat back covering up wasn’t wise in hindsight as he wore himself out.

[Perkin Warbeck]

Jolly would be okay as a confidence-building fight after a loss like that.

Moses would easily win, but Jolly would give him rounds. Then a decent journeyman like Dacres, then a top 15-20 heavyweight like Huni.

21 year old fighters need to remain active, fight every three months, not once every six months like Itauma has.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Frank~Warren Wants Answers In Meeting With Itauma, Davison

Frank~Warren will hold talks with Moses Itauma and his trainer Ben Davison after the young ace “punched himself out” against Filip Hrgovic.

Itauma (14-1, 12 KOs) was in complete control of their clash for the vacant IBF heavyweight title Saturday night in London. He peppered Hrgovic with heavy shots throughout the first half of the fight.

But the Croatian somehow stood firm before forcing a ninth-round stoppage. Itauma, who was taken straight to a hospital, was completely exhausted by the time referee Howard Foster stepped in.

Now, with the dust still settling on a frantic night at O2 Arena, the 21-year-old Itauma’s promoter is planning to meet with him and his team to discuss the management of the fight.

“We will have a chat,” Warren said. “There’s certain things that I’ve seen in the fight and seen on the night that obviously have got to be dealt with. You have to manage a fight, but all he’s done is get in the ring, put his foot down on the accelerator, push it into overdrive and never take it off.

“He never went back to the jab, moved around, just took it easy. He could have calmed down. If he’d have just boxed – what was he, eight rounds up on all the cards? All he had to do was box. He just got behind his jab. He’s got the speed and the pace, he could have done that, but everything was just as it was.

“I’ve got my views, and when I sit down with them, I’ll tell him where I’m at and what I expect to happen. I think [Davison] will learn from it. I’ve spoken to him quite a few times, I think he’ll learn from it.”

Davison has been heavily criticized for his role in the defeat, with the youngster’s conditioning particularly questioned. Before the fight, Itauma had suggested to talkSPORT that he had never completed a 12-round spar during training, although that claim has since been refuted.

Even so, the head trainer has come under the spotlight, with some suggesting that Itauma should even leave Davison, the man he credits with reinstalling his own love for boxing.

When asked whether he thinks Davison is the man to take Itauma forward, Warren said, “I don’t even want to go there. It’s not fair on him or anybody until we all sit down. There also wasn’t a lot of corner feedback, so I want to find out what’s going on there.”

Any meeting is still a few weeks away, with Warren keen for Itauma to rest up and take his mind off boxing after such a high-profile first defeat.

On Sunday, Itauma, The Ring’s No. 8-rated contender for Oleksandr Usyk’s crown, uploaded a video to social media insisting he will learn from the loss to Hrgovic as he presses on with his career.

“I don’t know when he will be back yet,” Warren said. “I’ve told them to go away, not to talk about it, not to think about it. That’s what he’ll do. When he comes back, we’ll get them all together, sit them down, and we’ll have a really good chat about everything and what needs to be happening going forward.

“He showed he’s got a big heart. He answered a lot of questions on Saturday, and he showed what he needs to work on. I think it’s about the management of a fight. ‘I’m in a 12-round fight. Do you see what it says on the top of the program? It’s a 12-rounder. That's what I'm trained for.’ ”

“But he was determined to stop Hrgovic. His brother was sitting next to me. He said that Moses won’t feel like he’s won the title unless he knocks him out. I said, ‘What a load of bollocks that is.’ You win the title by having your hand put up. That’s what it’s all about.”

Warren also revealed he never wanted Itauma, who had not been beyond six rounds as a professional, to face Hrgovic (21-1, 16 KOs), The Ring’s new No. 4 contender. But he also explained why a part of him is “pleased” by what happened on an unforgettable night in London.

“I was disappointed because, first of all, this fight, I was looking to make it against a different opponent,” Warren said. “But we were talking about it and they said that was the opponent they wanted and that he’s perfect in every way. But if he had gone and knocked him out in the eighth round, then everyone would have been a genius. In some ways, I’m pleased with what happened on Saturday. I know that might sound perverse, because if he’d been fighting 98 percent of any of the heavyweights in the world, he’d have stopped him. I’ve no doubt about that.

“He showed tremendous heart and courage. And he showed that he can take a shot. He showed plenty of heart, too, but it was the fact that he just punched himself out. “I think there are a lot of positives. If he’d have swallowed, if he’d have given up or dropped his hands or taken a knee or something like that, I would have had some doubts. But we know what he’s got to do and he knows what he’s got to do. We’ve had a lot of conversations about what's got to happen to make him the complete package.”

[Ruthless-RKO]

'Moses Itauma is only a three-round fighter,' says former world champion

The job of rebuilding Moses Itauma following his devastating collapse against Filip Hrgovic last month will not be an easy one, says George Groves.

The former super middleweight champion bounced back from consecutive losses to Carl Froch, and another to Badou Jack, to win a world belt in his fourth title shot.

Itauma was widely expected to beat Hrgovic when they clashed for the vacant IBF heavyweight title. The 21-year-old dominated the early action before dramatically running out of gas.

He was stopped in the ninth.

Groves does not believe his team need to rip it up and start again. But tweaks might be required to a style known for its fast and furious nature.

"It's not an easy task but I hope that there isn't a lot of mental scarring there and they can go back and not try and reinvent,” Groves told Sky Sports.

“Keep what he is but just give him more comfort and confidence in the pacing of the fight.

"Maybe it will come with age, that endurance that he can be much more of a 12 round fighter than a three-round fighter.

At the moment he's a three-round fighter. That's the sad fact of it. He's not even a six-round fighter. I thought he was gassing a bit from the third round on.

"He's that sort of athlete, extremely fast twitch and when he punches he puts maximum effort into it. But that depletes the engine. At times he's probably never really had to work on it.

"But he's going to have to be much more efficient in his work."

So, what next for Itauma?

"If I had to rebuild Moses Itauma. I would drop him obviously down a level but I've got to be honest I think his management has been great so far. I'm not buying into 'the Hrgovic fight was a step too far'. It was what it was. It was the right fight to make. It got elevated to a world title," he said.

"It was logical to elevate it to a world title and with that maybe came some pressure. Moses, he probably thought he had Hrgovic gone and he didn't and put his foot on the gas a bit too much and he gassed out. So he's going to have to own that a little bit. They'll change and adapt within his training team to patch that up.

"The toughest job in boxing is probably navigating Itauma's career because he's been so good, so fast, so early, so young."

[gilgamesh]

The bad thing about losing the way Itauma did is that even if he improves his conditioning in the gym, it could cause him to fight with a lot of nervous energy that would again cause him to burn himself out quicker even if he was in better shape.

It's easy for a fighters nerves to start getting to them after they've suffered a loss, and I'd imagine if you constantly have your stamina and conditioning at the front of your mind there's a good chance your nervousness about the idea could make you feel worn out sooner than you should.

[tony1234]

Wonder if he ends up as the new David Price ? If he comes back knocking over nobodies he will learn nothing , he needs a some decent 10 rounders

[gilgamesh]

Wonder if he ends up as the new David Price ? If he comes back knocking over nobodies he will learn nothing , he needs a some decent 10 rounders

Have him go for and defend the British title a few times. That should have him against at least a halfway respectable level of competition, and could still have his career moving forward.

[Coco]

Wonder if he ends up as the new David Price ? If he comes back knocking over nobodies he will learn nothing , he needs a some decent 10 rounders

Have him go for and defend the British title a few times. That should have him against at least a halfway respectable level of competition, and could still have his career moving forward.

I agree, keep him busy, 4/5 fights in the next year, win British and Euro titles.

However the problem is the money, the opposition will want world title purses

[dookus]

Wonder if he ends up as the new David Price ? If he comes back knocking over nobodies he will learn nothing , he needs a some decent 10 rounders

I think he's definitely got a better chin than Price, and probably better stamina too (Price's was dreadful at any sort of decent level). He needs rounds at a good pace and he needs to learn how and when to step off the gas.

[Taansend]

Hughie Fury is a great shout. But I'd give him another fight first.

He's still only 21 & he, and everyone around him, thought he was invincible. He needs rebuilding from a mental aspect.

Fury is a rangy fighter with decent skills & a great chin. A very good test but Moses needs to get out there on an undercard against someone like Tommy Welch.

Then get him in with a Fury or Andy Ruiz who should give him a few rounds.

[JamesPhilips]

Hughie Fury is a great shout. But I'd give him another fight first.

He's still only 21 & he, and everyone around him, thought he was invincible. He needs rebuilding from a mental aspect.

Fury is a rangy fighter with decent skills & a great chin. A very good test but Moses needs to get out there on an undercard against someone like Tommy Welch.

Then get him in with a Fury or Andy Ruiz who should give him a few rounds.

Itauma will just roll through Welch in a round. Dave Allen I think might be a good call. He has a good chin but is hittable and not that dangerous

[Taansend]

Hughie Fury is a great shout. But I'd give him another fight first.

He's still only 21 & he, and everyone around him, thought he was invincible. He needs rebuilding from a mental aspect.

Fury is a rangy fighter with decent skills & a great chin. A very good test but Moses needs to get out there on an undercard against someone like Tommy Welch.

Then get him in with a Fury or Andy Ruiz who should give him a few rounds.

Itauma will just roll through Welch in a round. Dave Allen I think might be a good call. He has a good chin but is hittable and not that dangerous

You're right but I try to exist in a Dave Allen free zone

It's like watching a sitcom that's gone on much too long & is no longer funny.

[JamesPhilips]

Hughie Fury is a great shout. But I'd give him another fight first.

He's still only 21 & he, and everyone around him, thought he was invincible. He needs rebuilding from a mental aspect.

Fury is a rangy fighter with decent skills & a great chin. A very good test but Moses needs to get out there on an undercard against someone like Tommy Welch.

Then get him in with a Fury or Andy Ruiz who should give him a few rounds.

Itauma will just roll through Welch in a round. Dave Allen I think might be a good call. He has a good chin but is hittable and not that dangerous

You're right but I try to exist in a Dave Allen free zone

It's like watching a sitcom that's gone on much too long & is no longer funny.

Yeah I think get Itauma a bum to blow out to get his confidence back then Allen. It’ll probably be PPV as well

[Syntax Error]

I can't believe he isn't returning until 2027.

There are enough months left of this year for him to potentially get out again.

He never took a sustained beating or anything like that, he just punched himself out.

I would have thought he'd be itching to get back out ASAP.

[gilgamesh]

I can't believe he isn't returning until 2027.

There are enough months left of this year for him to potentially get out again.

He never took a sustained beating or anything like that, he just punched himself out.

I would have thought he'd be itching to get back out ASAP.

He's never gonna amount to anything. He doesn't want to even be active. Being active in the sport you plan to be a star in is kinda a crucial part to the whole becoming a star in it part.

He has the natural talent to be a star, but he doesn't have the want to. Maybe he can find it in himself somehow, but if he doesn't, and he keeps up with the once or twice a year schedule going forward he may as well just stop Boxing altogether because he's hit his peak already.

[JamesPhilips]

I can't believe he isn't returning until 2027.

There are enough months left of this year for him to potentially get out again.

He never took a sustained beating or anything like that, he just punched himself out.

I would have thought he'd be itching to get back out ASAP.

He's never gonna amount to anything. He doesn't want to even be active. Being active in the sport you plan to be a star in is kinda a crucial part to the whole becoming a star in it part.

He has the natural talent to be a star, but he doesn't have the want to. Maybe he can find it in himself somehow, but if he doesn't, and he keeps up with the once or twice a year schedule going forward he may as well just stop Boxing altogether because he's hit his peak already.

I got that hunch too. I mean he’s only 21 so has time to change his attitude but it does seem like he lacks the mentality to take advantage of his talent

[KiwiRider]

What is he waiting for?
I'm guessing his man-stamnia
Oh yes, you read it here first.
Just like Huggie Fury and his man-strength, Mosey Itrauma is waiting for his full man stamina
Just you wait, eight to ten years, when it kicks in

[Frostieballs]

Hrg has taken his soul.

[gregregegg]

To be fair he gassed after delivering a beating I believe only 2 or 3 people in the world can take. So most would have been out cold well befor he gassed.

[KiwiRider]

To be fair he gassed after delivering a beating I believe only 2 or 3 people in the world can take. So most would have been out cold well befor he gassed.

How do you know he has power?
Plenty of punches for sure, but so far he has only knocked out journeymen and a fragile Dillian Whyte.
Hrg said DDD hit way harder. I know that's only one comparison, but everyone else Moses has faced has been there to lose. There has been a lot of sponsored hype surrounding him, so there isn't much to go by except what Hrg said

[gregregegg]

To be fair he gassed after delivering a beating I believe only 2 or 3 people in the world can take. So most would have been out cold well befor he gassed.

How do you know he has power?
Plenty of punches for sure, but so far he has only knocked out journeymen and a fragile Dillian Whyte.
Hrg said DDD hit way harder. I know that's only one comparison, but everyone else Moses has faced has been there to lose. There has been a lot of sponsored hype surrounding him, so there isn't much to go by except what Hrg said

Look you never truly know, Mabey AJs power was overrated cause he got a bunch of old guys, Mabey wilders power was overrated cause he fought a bunch of shit guys, Mabey zhangs power was overrated cause Joyce’s chin had finally cracked from too many tough fights… you never truely know. But you can go off what you have seen and guess a bit.

I don’t think he has absolute crazy crazy power, but I think he has some proper power and combined with the speed and selection of shots that landed I don’t think many are surviving it.

Chinned franklin, AJ, Whyte and Dychco couldn’t wobble him.

Whyte in a round (ok washed sure but still never done)

Dempsey in a round, mediocre fighter but had only been stopped once and had lasted till the 12th vs hrg and was stopped standing after 3 rabbit punches.

Wach dropped and stopped in 2 rounds

These are not top levle but there all standout results.

Dropping hrg too that’s a standout, Zhang did it, but DDD landed about 100 clean shots and didn’t dint him.

I think Moses is still a top 5 offensive threat over 4 rounds (probably top overall). Sure DDD might punch harder according to hrg, but he dosent hit faster or with more variety.

[TheLeprechaun]

I think they will mess up his style now. Itauma from that Hrgovic fight KO's every other heavyweight and probably now KO's Hrgovic in a rematch due to the damage Hrgovic took in the fight. Hrgovic was just saying in a recent interview that he considered retirement for a few weeks after the fight because he was so comprehensively outboxed. I have no faith in Ben Davison to get things right and Itauma himself doesn't seem to have enough common sense to get away from him. It's like a Yarde and Tunde situation. Yarde sits there after getting pumped in his loses and says it was great experience for the entire team instead of going to a trainer who already has bucket loads of experience at top level so you don't need to "learn" in top fights, i.e get beaten up.

[Frostieballs]

I think they will mess up his style now. Itauma from that Hrgovic fight KO's every other heavyweight and probably now KO's Hrgovic in a rematch due to the damage Hrgovic took in the fight. Hrgovic was just saying in a recent interview that he considered retirement for a few weeks after the fight because he was so comprehensively outboxed. I have no faith in Ben Davison to get things right and Itauma himself doesn't seem to have enough common sense to get away from him. It's like a Yarde and Tunde situation. Yarde sits there after getting pumped in his loses and says it was great experience for the entire team instead of going to a trainer who already has bucket loads of experience at top level so you don't need to "learn" in top fights, i.e get beaten up.

Think this is good analysis.

They shouldn’t change anything, other than bring some patience to his game.

I’ve joked that Hrg might have taken his soul, but he does actually have all the tools to reign the division.