Super welterweights: Sugar Ray Leonard vs Mike McCallum

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:28

2 great complete boxers. Looking at the record of how he did at 154, I pick McCallum by decision or late KO.

theone · Post by **theone** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:37

Leonard beats( more often than not) anyone below middleweight with the exception of Robinson and maybe Armstrong. Leonard would outbox him over 12 or 15 similiarly to how Curry was doing before he got caught. Nobody is putting down Leonard with one punch.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:44

Definitely favour the "Body Snatcher" in this one.

I'm just not impressed with SRL above 147. He was a great welter no doubt but his "win" against Hagler, whilst a good effort coming out of retirement, has too many questions hanging over it. He lost in the rematch to Tommy hands down. Lalonde. ppffhh. And Duran failed to show up again for some reason in thir last match-up after going to war with Barkley earlier in the year.

Mike McCallum was a supreme boxer with great skill and would have worked Leonard over at 154 which I think was his best weight.

McCallum in a relatively easy UD12 outworking Leonard with his jab and hooks to the body. Leonard would most likely run for most of the bout but MCCallum was supremely conditioned and had good skill in cutting the ring off as well.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:45

theone wrote:Leonard beats( more often than not) anyone below middleweight with the exception of Robinson and maybe Armstrong. Leonard would outbox him over 12 or 15 similiarly to how Curry was doing before he got caught. Nobody is putting down Leonard with one punch.

He didn't beat Duran.

theone · Post by **theone** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:49

He didn't beat Duran.

You are aware that they fought a second time several months later right? A fight where Leonard displayed his superiority to such a degree that Duran preferred to quit, rather than allow the humiliation to continue?

theone · Post by **theone** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:51

McCallum in a relatively easy UD12 outworking Leonard with his jab and hooks to the body. Leonard would most likely run for most of the bout but MCCallum was supremely conditioned and had good skill in cutting the ring off as well

If you truly believe anyone would have defeated Leonard in his prime with relative ease, than its hard to take anything else you say seriously.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 04 Jan 2007, 18:59

theone wrote:If you truly believe anyone would have defeated Leonard in his prime with relative ease, than its hard to take anything else you say seriously.

That's your prerogative. This is an opinion board and I offered my opinion.
Don't get all surly on us just because I disagreed with you.

We are talking 154 are we not? I did say that I consider SRL to be a great welter. I'm not bashing SRL here as I'm a fan, but there was a reason he never fought McCallum when Mike was calling him out in the 80's. That reason was . . . . . . . money.

What or when do you consider SRL's "prime" at 154?

theone · Post by **theone** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:08

That's your prerogative. This is an opinion board and I offered my opinion.
Don't get all surly on us just because I disagreed with you.

I actually didnt mean it to come off sounding surly so I apologize for that.

We are talking 154 are we not? I did say that I consider SRL to be a great welter. I'm not bashing SRL here as I'm a fan, but there was a reason he never fought McCallum when Mike was calling him out in the 80's. That reason was . . . . . . . money
What or when do you consider SRL's "prime" at 154?

Prime Leonard did win the jr middle title, from a pretty good champ in Ayub Kalule. nobody cared about that title at the time so he dropped it immediately.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:20

Perhaps "convincing" would have been a better word than easy.
Yeh I saw the Kalule fight, both Leonard & McCallum, and I was impressed with Leonard in that fight but I still think the McCallum that beat McCrory would take SRL.

Incidentally the McCallum v Michael Watson fight at 160 is a great contest with McCallum having to pull out all stops to stop Watson who just kept coming all night but ran out of gas in the end.

McCallum seems to be a bit of a forgotten champ which is a shame because when you watch him his level of skill and conditioning is very impressive.

el tigre del sur · Post by **el tigre del sur** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:25

theone wrote:Prime Leonard did win the jr middle title, from a pretty good champ in Ayub Kalule. nobody cared about that title at the time so he dropped it immediately.

Furthermore, McCallum fought Kalule only a year after Leonard and did a job on him in 7 rounds.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:47

el tigre del sur wrote:
theone wrote:Prime Leonard did win the jr middle title, from a pretty good champ in Ayub Kalule. nobody cared about that title at the time so he dropped it immediately.
Furthermore, McCallum fought Kalule only a year after Leonard and did a job on him in 7 rounds.

True, but Kalule had been softened up by both Leonard and Davey Moore by the time he fought McCallum. A year can be a long time in boxing.

Kalule was a tough lad though with plenty of pride and Mccallum certainly deserves credit for his comprehensive win. I remember Warren brought Kalule to England as a good scalp for his prospect Jimmy Price a couple of years later and Ayub proceded to really batter Price inside a round. After being in with several greats, the Ugandan, even at that stage, wasn't about to lose to the Jimmy Prices of this world.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 04 Jan 2007, 19:52

One thing that worked against McCallum is he didn't receive a whole lot of tv exposure, and when he finally got a televised fight it was against Salamby Kalamby. As everybody knows Kalamby was a slick boxer and great defensive fighter who was difficult to look good against and thats how it played out for McCallum in that fight. So when you finally got to see one of his fights it was a loss.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:02

el tigre del sur wrote:McCallum seems to be a bit of a forgotten champ which is a shame because when you watch him his level of skill and conditioning is very impressive.

I would say "avoided" more than "forgotten" - none of the top guys in the 147-160 range wanted anything to do with him in his prime - including Leonard and Hagler. That's not to say that he would've beaten either SRL or MMH, but I think both of those champs knew that at best Mike would give them a very tough night indeed. Parallels to Charley Burley spring to mind...

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 04 Jan 2007, 20:22

Eric the Viking wrote:
el tigre del sur wrote:McCallum seems to be a bit of a forgotten champ which is a shame because when you watch him his level of skill and conditioning is very impressive.
I would say "avoided" more than "forgotten" - none of the top guys in the 147-160 range wanted anything to do with him in his prime - including Leonard and Hagler. That's not to say that he would've beaten either SRL or MMH, but I think both of those champs knew that at best Mike would give them a very tough night indeed. Parallels to Charley Burley spring to mind...

By the time of McCallum's prime in 86-88, Hagler was hanging up his gloves.

What cost McCallum more dearly than any alleged 'avoidance' by the greats was losing to Sumbu Kalambay when trying to move up and grab a title at 160. Had he won that fight he'd have positioned himself nicely for a megafight but at the time it was "What? He lost to who? Sumbu Kalambay? Never heard of him. An African fighting out of Italy? Hahahahaha, you're kidding, right?".

That loss really took the shine off what he'd accomplished up to that point.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Jan 2007, 05:22

At 154 it's a 50-50 fight, thr higher up the weights they go the more I favour Mike. It would have been a great fight.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 05 Jan 2007, 06:39

Depends when the fight was - early 80s then Leonard, mid-late 80s McCallum. Whichever the fight would go the distance as both men have granite chins, and would be close as both were superbly skilled. Slight edge to Leonard peak-to-peak, close decision win is likely

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 05 Jan 2007, 07:38

At 154 I'll go with McCallum by a squeaky decision

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 05 Jan 2007, 12:44

theone wrote:Leonard beats( more often than not) anyone below middleweight with the exception of Robinson and maybe Armstrong. Leonard would outbox him over 12 or 15 similiarly to how Curry was doing before he got caught. Nobody is putting down Leonard with one punch.

He may not KO Leonard with one punch, but he sure would have bodysnatch him to pieces. McCallum at 154 was a monster and complete fighter that never had the opportunity to fight the Fabulous 4 of Duran, Hagler, Leonard and Hearns.

theone · Post by **theone** » 05 Jan 2007, 18:06

He may not KO Leonard with one punch, but he sure would have bodysnatch him to pieces. McCallum at 154 was a monster and complete fighter that never had the opportunity to fight the Fabulous 4 of Duran, Hagler, Leonard and Hearns.

With his speed and power Leonard would make McCallum pay dearly if he invested too much in a body assault. From the fab four, Duran is the only one I see McCullum beating.

mitchell · Post by **mitchell** » 05 Jan 2007, 20:38

I think Leonard was in a completely different skill class. His boxing ability, skill and defence would have McCallum befuddled.
Leonard by Unam.

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http://www.freewebs.com/neutral-corner/

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 07 Jan 2007, 16:05

Decagon wrote:Leonard could enter the ring weighing 148 and destroy Mike McCallum.

How could he, when the 175lb Roy Jones couldnt destroy Mike McCallum?

theone · Post by **theone** » 07 Jan 2007, 22:09

How could he, when the 175lb Roy Jones couldnt destroy Mike McCallum?

Jones fought him just hard enough to beat him. He did the same with many of his opponents. Leonard had more of a killer instinct than Jones.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 08 Jan 2007, 04:03

theone wrote:
He may not KO Leonard with one punch, but he sure would have bodysnatch him to pieces. McCallum at 154 was a monster and complete fighter that never had the opportunity to fight the Fabulous 4 of Duran, Hagler, Leonard and Hearns.
With his speed and power Leonard would make McCallum pay dearly if he invested too much in a body assault. From the fab four, Duran is the only one I see McCullum beating.

I just do not see him beat only Duran. But I see him beating at least 3 of the Fab 4. He could beat Leonard, Hearns or Duran at 154 in any given night. NOt just Duran.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 08 Jan 2007, 09:04

McCallum was 40ish when he fought Jones. The Jones fight showed McCallums durability. Leonard doesnt have the power of Jones, nor is he faster or a better offensive fighter. I dont see Leonard destroying McCallum

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 08 Jan 2007, 09:54

Leonard would not destroy McCallum. However, he would win a fairly easy decision. McCallum would have had probably beat Duran and would have chance against Hearns, though Hearns probably would have won. Hagler would have beaten McCallum but it wouldn't have been an easy fight.