Top Ten MW's that did not gain championship status

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Jan 2007, 13:14

That sparked some debate on the HW thread so I thought I'd do it again.

I have often thought that the list of champions is very short of the definitive story of "who's who" in most divisions. How many truly great fighters were avoided for the simple reason that they would likely win? So were never given their rightful shot.

And certain handlers and promoters would want to control that outcome if possible. So politics in boxing as in everything else controls outcomes.

Many of the inequity's can be traced to racism I'm sure but some may be as simple as who's sphere of influence did a fighter travel under?

I don't want to seed this with my own list because many of you have more knowledge of actual "skill inventories" than I do so I will be a humble reader of the lists.

The politics of boxing is huge and denied many potential champions there shot....and NOT all for the same or "obvious" reasons. Some may have been as simple as an early death, or happenstance on occasion.

That said these lists should really be about those who had the skill to perservere if they would have had the opportunity or those who were edged out in an era where there was someone just too good for them to compete with at that point in history.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 16 Jan 2007, 13:31

In no particular order, partly due to the fact that I always change my mind on these matters, constantly. I feel these are some fighters that should be carefully considered on this matter.

Bennie Briscoe.
Charley Burley.
Jock McAvoy.
Holman Williams.
Lloyd Marshall.
Eddie Booker.

JC · Post by JC » 16 Jan 2007, 15:05

KOJOE has covered most of the main names, Herol Graham could be added lower down the list.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 16 Jan 2007, 15:16

Decagon you see Briscoe and Mugabi that far down the list...or are your lists propriatory in this case?

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 16 Jan 2007, 21:52

ATILIO CARAUNE

EDUARDO LAUSSE

RAFAEL MERENTINO

CYRILLE DELANNOIT

TIBERIO MITRI

CHARLEY HUMEZ

IGNACIO ARA

KID TUNERO

GEORGIE ABRAMS

FLORENTINO FERNÁNDEZ

JEAN-CLAUDE BOUTTIER

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 16 Jan 2007, 22:00

Gotta find room for

Jack Chase
Steve Belloise
Spider Webb
Luis Rodriguez
Joey Archer
Georgie Benton
Cyclone Hart

Scartissue

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 16 Jan 2007, 22:11

Why, oh why, will none of you mention Bert?

Victor*KC · Post by **Victor*KC** » 16 Jan 2007, 23:57

Willie Monroe

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 17 Jan 2007, 05:41

Decagon wrote:1. Lloyd Marshall
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Archie Moore
4. Charley Burley
5. Sam Langford
6. Billy Conn
7. Eddie Booker
8. Holman Williams
9. Tommy Burns
10. Joe Choynski
11. Mike Gibbons
12. Young Joe Louis
13. Winky Wright
14. Laurent Dauthuille
15. Young Corbett III
16. Lazlo Papp
17. Jem Mace
18. Kid McCoy
19. The Cocoa Kid
20. Harol Graham
21. Shorty Boy Hogue
22. Bert Lytell
23. Charley Mitchell
24. Jock McAvoy
25. Izzy Jannazzo
26. Mick Dooley
27. Willie Monroe
28. Benny Briscoe
29. Aaron Wade
30. John Mugabi

Great list.
I thought Kid McCoy did hold the MW title for a while after beating Tommy Ryan, and he made a defence against Dan Creedon.
Some of these guys e.g. Charles, Moore and Wright etc have won titles at other weights.
How come you ranked Jem Mace and Charlie Mitchell, who were essentially London Prize Ring fighters?
I would also have included Len Harvey amongst this lot, even in the top 10

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 17 Jan 2007, 06:19

Bert Gilroy and Ginger Sadd should be #1 and #2 in any such list about the Middleweights.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Jan 2007, 10:54

Bladder wrote:Bert Gilroy and Ginger Sadd should be #1 and #2 in any such list about the Middleweights.

Absolutely! Any list that doesn't have these two at #1 and #2 stinks!

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 17 Jan 2007, 15:31

HENRY HANK

JOEY GIAMBRA

JOSÉ BASORA

DAVE SHADE

HOLLY MIMS

HOLMAN WILLIAMS

DAVE SANDS

RENE DE VOS

RALPH (TIGER) JONES

GEORGE BENTON

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 17 Jan 2007, 15:52

Holly Mimms?
Joey Archer?

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 17 Jan 2007, 17:00

Les Darcy should be right up there on any list of middleweights who werent crowned champion.
Michael Watson deserves a mention as well

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 17 Jan 2007, 17:09

KOJOE90 wrote:Holly Mimms?
Joey Archer?

Above Bert?

Sacrilege!

hebrew_hammer · Post by **hebrew_hammer** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:11

How about a couple of others from the Hagler era... Mustafa Hamsho and Alan Minter... both have some very good wins on their records

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:19

Didnt Minter hold the belt at some point?

hebrew_hammer · Post by **hebrew_hammer** » 18 Jan 2007, 15:22

BoxBuzz wrote:Didnt Minter hold the belt at some point?

Sorry, my fault... you're right... I thought it was just the European belt, but he beat Vito for it... good catch

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 18 Jan 2007, 17:19

1. Charley Burley
2. Eddie Booker
3. Holman Williams
4. Spider Webb
5. Bert Lytell
6. Benny Briscoe
7. Tiberio Mitri
8. Robert Villemain
9. Cyrille Dennoitt
10. Mike Gibbons

there are probably at least another dozen guys that you could make a case for; many of who have been mentioned.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 18 Jan 2007, 22:04

RAÚL RODRÍGUEZ, Argentinian and South American Champion

JORGE FERNÁNDEZ, too Argentinian and South American Champion, rated world number 1 between Welterweights, Junior Middleweights and Middleweights (!)

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Jan 2007, 22:48

Martin you are really leaving out some major names with your novel list..
Burley missing? I question Monroe and Hart in these lists....maybe not Monroe so much.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 19 Jan 2007, 01:30

Ambling Alp wrote:1. Charley Burley
2. Eddie Booker
3. Holman Williams
4. Spider Webb
5. Bert Lytell
6. Benny Briscoe
7. Tiberio Mitri
8. Robert Villemain
9. Cyrille Dennoitt
10. Mike Gibbons

there are probably at least another dozen guys that you could make a case for; many of who have been mentioned.

I saw "Bert" and I thought "at last"! But alas, it was a different "Bert".

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 19 Jan 2007, 06:38

Ambling Alp wrote: 5. Bert Lytell

Good list Alp, but you spelt the surname wrong on #5. ...... the correct spelling is Gilroy.

Martin Sosa Cameron · Post by **Martin Sosa Cameron** » 19 Jan 2007, 08:49

BoxBuzz wrote:Martin you are really leaving out some major names with your novel list..
Burley missing? I question Monroe and Hart in these lists....maybe not Monroe so much.

Hi, BoxBuzz!

Yes, you're right, but, as you can see, I put great names who aren't mentioned in the previous lists of this beautiful topic, and between them, any South American great fighters who aren't, frecquently, wellknown or reminded; I wants to catch the eye on them. Who read the record of E. Lausse, R. Merentino, A. Caraune, R. Rodríguez or J. Fernández (all they retired more than 30 years ago) can to share with my the admiration and recognition for this great fighters; thanks!

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 19 Jan 2007, 10:03

Bladder and Collins 2000 - I quite sure I have the right Bert, Bert Lytell that is. Are you guys serious about Bert Gilroy or is that a joke?