IS EVANDER HOLIFIELD A DRUG CHEAT???.....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 04 Mar 2007, 12:37

Theres rumours that Evander has been linked with recent raids on some pharmacys which have been providing various nasty things to some people... what do others make of this???.... personally I've always thought that Holifield would have been much bigger had he used something dodgey... he's never been much over 220-215.... there are certainly fighters out there that are using... certainly some that are coming in at 270-280... but Holifield???...

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Mar 2007, 10:11

I've posted this before but my bet is that it would be an easier task to try and work out who isn't on enhancements than work out who is.

When it comes down to it some supplements are legal and others not... Unlike other sports where drugs are rife in boxing it is extremely dangerous

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 06 Mar 2007, 00:59

..i doubt is holyfield is a drug cheat. i'm sure he paid the fair market price for any that he used....

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 06 Mar 2007, 01:20

Holyfield is not Barry Bonds...

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 06 Mar 2007, 02:44

He may or may not be involved with the juice........But one thing is for sure, Holyfield is punch drunk, and should have gotten out years ago. Another sad tale.....

barry · Post by **barry** » 06 Mar 2007, 03:03

As much as Holyfield enjoyed weight-lifting and due to his physique I would bet that he has been on the "juice" for a long time, which I am not saying that just because he was into weight lifting that he is automatically guilty, but then again...that is the profession that is most related to steroids!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 06 Mar 2007, 09:11

Dont you think he would be bigger if he had taken steroids?... theres been other heavies with simular physiques that havent taken juice... but then I know that there have been rumours around Holifield for a while... I think of all the fighters around I would be most disapointed with Evander if he did take something, ...he's always seemed to be one of the more genuine fighters out there...

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 06 Mar 2007, 21:16

silkov wrote:Dont you think he would be bigger if he had taken steroids?... theres been other heavies with simular physiques that havent taken juice... but then I know that there have been rumours around Holifield for a while... I think of all the fighters around I would be most disapointed with Evander if he did take something, ...he's always seemed to be one of the more genuine fighters out there...

I have been doing powerlifting for years and have seen many men who are on juice. Holyfield has without a doubt used some sort of performance enhancer. Whether or not they were illegal is a diffrent issue. There are a lot of products that are legal when they come on the market and are banned very quickly so are the people taking them doing the wrong thing i dont think so.
Honestley i think most of the top boxers have used it not just for gaining muscle but also to help repair injuries.

barry · Post by **barry** » 07 Mar 2007, 02:34

I agree with both of you. I think it would greatly tarnish Holyfield's legacy, but the sad part is that NFL players can "juice-up" and they are suspended a couple of games yet they go on to break records and no one says a damn thing about it. Like Shawn Merriman...he was juicing, yet all anyone can say about him is what a monster warrior he is on the field..they don't say, due to steroids, he is playing great.

As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 07 Mar 2007, 06:03

I don't know for sure, but I think Evander always had a great physique and even in LA in 1984 he was fairly ripped. The guy was a gym freak and was one of the first fighters to introduce a rigorous weights regime to his training. He also was mad for diet and nutrition. It reminds me a bit of the Ivan Drago type regime in Rocky IV. WasNorton on drugs or was he too just naturally built amazingly.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Mar 2007, 07:16

barry wrote:
As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.

I basically agree with this. If it were honest and open then at least we would know for sure when trying to compare old and contemporary athletes.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Mar 2007, 10:10

Yeah I have some video footage of Evander when he first turned pro and the progamm is looking at how he trains using weights and speed running/short sprints etc and saying that it was a revolutionary way of training for a fighter... as far as appearance goes even as an amutuer Evander was 'ripped' and when you look at his weight gain from light heavy to 210... its not unprobable that he could have put that amount of muscle on without 'cheating' Ali was only about 185 when he turned pro I think and went up to 205-210 pretty quick... in terms of build Mike Weaver and Ken Norton had great physiques but were never accused of taking steriods... Max Baer had a tremendous build back in the 30s... so its certainly possible to build yourself up like that through simple weight training and no illegal suppliments... look at Randolph Turpins build....

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 07 Mar 2007, 10:42

walshb wrote:I don't know for sure, but I think Evander always had a great physique and even in LA in 1984 he was fairly ripped. The guy was a gym freak and was one of the first fighters to introduce a rigorous weights regime to his training. He also was mad for diet and nutrition. It reminds me a bit of the Ivan Drago type regime in Rocky IV. WasNorton on drugs or was he too just naturally built amazingly.

Norton did have an amazing physique, and from what I recall he did not use weights in his training. I would think that his build was natural, because he really wasn’t thickly muscled and at 6-3 and 210 (at his best) he would be considered small today. In fact, if he were fighting today in his prime, many would probably think he was almost “skinny” next to the thick, plodding slobs in the HW division today. However, I would say he had a nearly perfect athletic build, but I’m hardly an expert.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 07 Mar 2007, 11:47

barry wrote:I agree with both of you. I think it would greatly tarnish Holyfield's legacy, but the sad part is that NFL players can "juice-up" and they are suspended a couple of games yet they go on to break records and no one says a damn thing about it. Like Shawn Merriman...he was juicing, yet all anyone can say about him is what a monster warrior he is on the field..they don't say, due to steroids, he is playing great.

As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.

I am with you 100% with the Merriman issue. Jason Taylor and several others were upset with the fact that the NFL allowed him to compete in the Pro Bowl. He should have been kicked off the roster, plain and simple.

BUT I disagree that athletes should use anything that enhances them because the past greats never had that ability and look how great some have been for there sport. It's cheating and it's not fair to the ones who bust there ass and earn every bit of what they achieve.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Mar 2007, 11:51

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:
barry wrote:I agree with both of you. I think it would greatly tarnish Holyfield's legacy, but the sad part is that NFL players can "juice-up" and they are suspended a couple of games yet they go on to break records and no one says a damn thing about it. Like Shawn Merriman...he was juicing, yet all anyone can say about him is what a monster warrior he is on the field..they don't say, due to steroids, he is playing great.

As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.
I am with you 100% with the Merriman issue. Jason Taylor and several others were upset with the fact that the NFL allowed him to compete in the Pro Bowl. He should have been kicked off the roster, plain and simple.

BUT I disagree that athletes should use anything that enhances them because the past greats never had that ability and look how great some have been for there sport. It's cheating and it's not fair to the ones who bust there ass and earn every bit of what they achieve.

The problem is that it's almost certain that they are all on it, or if not they are taking 'legal' substances that were never available previously.

I work from the position that they are all on enhancers and just leave it at that.

AndreWardFan2006 · Post by **AndreWardFan2006** » 07 Mar 2007, 11:56

Ezzard wrote:
AndreWardFan2006 wrote:
barry wrote:I agree with both of you. I think it would greatly tarnish Holyfield's legacy, but the sad part is that NFL players can "juice-up" and they are suspended a couple of games yet they go on to break records and no one says a damn thing about it. Like Shawn Merriman...he was juicing, yet all anyone can say about him is what a monster warrior he is on the field..they don't say, due to steroids, he is playing great.

As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.
I am with you 100% with the Merriman issue. Jason Taylor and several others were upset with the fact that the NFL allowed him to compete in the Pro Bowl. He should have been kicked off the roster, plain and simple.

BUT I disagree that athletes should use anything that enhances them because the past greats never had that ability and look how great some have been for there sport. It's cheating and it's not fair to the ones who bust there ass and earn every bit of what they achieve.
The problem is that it's almost certain that they are all on it, or if not they are taking 'legal' substances that were never available previously.

I work from the position that they are all on enhancers and just leave it at that.

I think the rumor that the NFL has brought up is blood testing the players once a week. That would weed out the cheaters, but the NFL Players Inc has to approve of it and they won't.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Mar 2007, 12:21

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:
Ezzard wrote:
AndreWardFan2006 wrote: I am with you 100% with the Merriman issue. Jason Taylor and several others were upset with the fact that the NFL allowed him to compete in the Pro Bowl. He should have been kicked off the roster, plain and simple.

BUT I disagree that athletes should use anything that enhances them because the past greats never had that ability and look how great some have been for there sport. It's cheating and it's not fair to the ones who bust there ass and earn every bit of what they achieve.
The problem is that it's almost certain that they are all on it, or if not they are taking 'legal' substances that were never available previously.

I work from the position that they are all on enhancers and just leave it at that.
I think the rumor that the NFL has brought up is blood testing the players once a week. That would weed out the cheaters, but the NFL Players Inc has to approve of it and they won't.

Tests mean very little. The drugs to cheat the tests are out there and are just as available as the enhancers. Also, what's stopping someone from spending 3 months hitting the roids and then laying off just in time for the big fight/race/game whatever???

All that the governing bodies can do is put something in place for the sake of their reputation. I don't think recreational drugs should be covered by governing bodies' tests. They should only look for, and act upon, substances which are deemed to give someone an unfair advantage.

When you think about it somebody in a sports governing body has decided that 1 drug is legal and another illegal. It's hardly a clear and distinct ethical line.

zojo · Post by **zojo** » 08 Mar 2007, 10:40

Evander Holyfield is not a drug cheat. Evan Fields on the other hand...

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 08 Mar 2007, 10:52

The Great John L wrote:
walshb wrote:I don't know for sure, but I think Evander always had a great physique and even in LA in 1984 he was fairly ripped. The guy was a gym freak and was one of the first fighters to introduce a rigorous weights regime to his training. He also was mad for diet and nutrition. It reminds me a bit of the Ivan Drago type regime in Rocky IV. WasNorton on drugs or was he too just naturally built amazingly.
Norton did have an amazing physique, and from what I recall he did not use weights in his training. I would think that his build was natural, because he really wasn’t thickly muscled and at 6-3 and 210 (at his best) he would be considered small today. In fact, if he were fighting today in his prime, many would probably think he was almost “skinny” next to the thick, plodding slobs in the HW division today. However, I would say he had a nearly perfect athletic build, but I’m hardly an expert.

People today seem to jump to the conclusion that if a guy is absolutely "ripped" he's on steroids, but the physiques of many boxers of old throw that myth out the window. Look at pictures of Cleveland Williams in his prime

. . he looks like the friggin' Terminator. Same with Harold Johnson, Rubin Carter etc.

I do believe Holyfield started using something illegal in between the first and 2nd Bowe fights. Before that (when he was at his best) he weighed in the 205-210 range for Foreman, Dokes, Cooper, Douglas etc. This isn't a massive jump from the 190s where he was at cruiserweight, and his body was ripped but still lean.

In the mid 90s Evander started going into fights a much more bulked up 215 and higher, and that's also when he started having his bizarre energy lapses and shoulder injuries. His fitness team also consisted of a bunch of former juicers, and I don't think they were telling him the whole time to "just say no" . .

I don't think it would tarnish his legacy too much b/c boxing isn't hitting in baseball. Steroids really wouldn't provide too much of a benefit for a 12 round fight.

UpWithEvil · Post by **UpWithEvil** » 08 Mar 2007, 12:47

I think Holyfield should be honest about his use of anabolic agents and come clean. He still has a fair amount of skill in the ring, and I think with proper diet and training he could still have a successful late-career run at middleweight.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 08 Mar 2007, 13:11

dempseyfire wrote:People today seem to jump to the conclusion that if a guy is absolutely "ripped" he's on steroids, but the physiques of many boxers of old throw that myth out the window. Look at pictures of Cleveland Williams in his prime . . he looks like the friggin' Terminator. Same with Harold Johnson, Rubin Carter etc.

An even earlier example is Tom Sharkey. A 5-8 185 lb powerhouse of solid muscle.

ebeneezer · Post by **ebeneezer** » 08 Mar 2007, 19:31

gaining twenty pounds of solid muscle while doing jump rope,hitting the bag, roadwork and whatnot is incredibly difficult to do without chemical assistance.

Look at his physique in the second Tyson fight. He looked like a fornicating pro wrestler.

JC · Post by JC » 08 Mar 2007, 19:40

The Great John L wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:People today seem to jump to the conclusion that if a guy is absolutely "ripped" he's on steroids, but the physiques of many boxers of old throw that myth out the window. Look at pictures of Cleveland Williams in his prime . . he looks like the friggin' Terminator. Same with Harold Johnson, Rubin Carter etc.
An even earlier example is Tom Sharkey. A 5-8 185 lb powerhouse of solid muscle.

Tiger Jack Fox is another example.

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/fox-tj.html

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 08 Mar 2007, 23:03

barry wrote:I agree with both of you. I think it would greatly tarnish Holyfield's legacy, but the sad part is that NFL players can "juice-up" and they are suspended a couple of games yet they go on to break records and no one says a damn thing about it. Like Shawn Merriman...he was juicing, yet all anyone can say about him is what a monster warrior he is on the field..they don't say, due to steroids, he is playing great.

As far as supplements...as long as they are not physically harmful to a person then I think that they all should be legalized for all athletics. If it does not harm the person and only helps them to play a sport better then it should not be an issue.

I totally agree with your last statement, If the product helps the athlete and is not harmful then it should be no problem.

UpWithEvil · Post by **UpWithEvil** » 09 Mar 2007, 14:53

The Great John L wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:People today seem to jump to the conclusion that if a guy is absolutely "ripped" he's on steroids, but the physiques of many boxers of old throw that myth out the window. Look at pictures of Cleveland Williams in his prime . . he looks like the friggin' Terminator. Same with Harold Johnson, Rubin Carter etc.
An even earlier example is Tom Sharkey. A 5-8 185 lb powerhouse of solid muscle.

Can you point me to any good-quality photographs of Tom Sharkey? I've seen a couple, most focused on that amazing chest tattoo or his mangled left ear.

IS EVANDER HOLIFIELD A DRUG CHEAT???.....

IS EVANDER HOLIFIELD A DRUG CHEAT???.....

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