The Bizarre World Of Tommy Morrison - His MMA Debut

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 10 Jun 2007, 06:57

'The Duke' thumped out some fat lump called Stover last night in a match on a MMA card that amounted to little more then a boxing match with 4 oz gloves..

Report below from Sherdog.com:

CAMP VERDE, Ariz., June 9 -- Nestled in Arizona's red rock mountains, former heavyweight boxing champion Tommy Morrison made what was billed as his mixed martial arts debut Saturday night.

Out of reach of the Arizona State Athletic Commission on the Yavapai-Apache Nation, unheralded John Stover of South Dakota stood as Morrison's first opponent.

In action that took place in the cage, Morrison dispatched Stover at the 2:08 mark of round number one.

Rules prohibited any kind of ground fighting, and as the card at the Cliff Castle Casino was about to commence it was announced that knees, elbows, or kicks of any kind would be disallowed during the Morrison-Stover fight, which was scheduled for three three-minute rounds.

"Yeah they switched up the rules," said the 35-year-old Stover. "At first it was strikes only knees, elbows, and kicks. They switched them up about a half hour before the show. We tried to barter around it, but Tommy, he doesn't want to do MMA. He needs to get paid. He needs his money. He needs to get his name back out there and this is basically all he's doing."

The six-foot-two, 340-pound Stover entered the cage first, where he waited 10 minutes for Morrison to make his entrance. A restless crowd of 2,500 greeted the former champ with a mixture of cheers and boos as he joined Stover in the cage.

Morrison, dressed in Everlast boxing trunks, also wore regulation boxing shoes during his customized MMA debut. It was Stover who came out the aggressor, posting Morrison up against the cage and landing a barrage of tight inside punches to the boxer's head.

Morrison, 38, slipped out the larger man's grip and circled back to the center of the cage. The sequence that followed showcased the boxer's superior hand speed.

Stover's nose was broken by a swift overhand right, however the rugged sheetrock worker would not go quietly and responded by slamming Morrison against the fencing for a second time.

Morrison escaped again and would end the fight soon thereafter. Repeated punches to the body had Stover hunched over, and Morrison delivered shots until the referee stepped in to stop the bout.

"I went into this fight knowing I'm not a strong boxer at all," said Stover. "Right now for a guy my size I need to take somebody to the ground and tie them in a knot."

Morrison showed no signs of the fight on his face, and did not bleed during the quick contest.

After the fight Stover addressed the media and claimed the rule changes played a role in the eventually outcome of the fight.

"If the fight went to the ground he would have been done in like a minute. A little less than that, about 30 seconds. That's kind of arrogant. I don't know," he laughed.

A fact that cannot be ignored is that Stover stepped into the cage Saturday night still not sure if his opponent was HIV positive or negative.

It was first reported that Morrison tested positive for HIV in 1996 following a blood test conducted by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. The news removed Morrison from boxing for 11 years, but he returned to the ring this February in West Virginia.

Varying reports leading into tonight's bout stated that Morrison's former agent Randy Lang said the fighter had repeatedly tested positive for the HIV virus in mandatory blood tests in attempts to a acquire a boxing license.

Saturday pre-fight Morrison's current advisor Peter McKinn, who also promoted tonight's Worldwide Fighting Championship event, refuted an Arizona Republic story published Friday citing Lang's allegations that documents used to get the license in West Virginia were fraudulent, or the blood sample had been tampered with.

Saying Dr. Carl E. Ferguson at the Lab Corps testing facility tested Morrison on Feb. 12, 2007, McKinn presented Sherdog.com with copies of a signed letter by Ferguson confirming that Morrison has tested negative for HIV 1 and 2 as well as hepatitis B and C.

"The reason we've been real quiet is the letters (questioning Lang's status as a attorney) went to the Arizona states' attorney general, Maricopa County's attorney's office," McKinn told Sherdog.com.

Legal action against Lang by the Morrison camp is pending, the promoter said.

"The reason we have not given this blood to anybody is because Tommy is going to launch a lawsuit," McKinn said.

The circus-like environment continued in the days leading up to the bout.

At Thursday's press conference it was revealed that no heart, blood, or eyes exams were required of the fighters at the promoter's digression.

Hours before the weigh-in on Friday, Stover learned during an interview with the Sherdog Radio Network that the fight would not take place under the jurisdiction of the ASAC.

The upbeat fighter from Pine Ridge, South Dakota issued himself a clean bill of health after the brief battle with the former pro boxer.

"Some people would be terrified of the rumors," said Stover, "but I gave him a shot."

Following the match Morrison was unavailable for comment.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 11 Jun 2007, 10:25

So it was basically an unlicensed boxing match, then. Nothing MMA about it.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Jun 2007, 10:38

Anybody know if that fight with John Castle is the end of Tommy as an official boxer.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 11 Jun 2007, 11:25

oliverfennell wrote:So it was basically an unlicensed boxing match, then. Nothing MMA about it.

Essentially, yes.

Of course the fight was in a cage, not a ring, and he was thumping on this fat no-hoper with tiny 4 oz gloves. It cant have been pleasant for Stover..

Originally it was supposed to be a 'striking' match but at the last moment they switched it to punching only. Morrison isnt looking to re-invent himself as an MMA fighter, as Jeremy Williams is, he just wants to fight.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 11 Jun 2007, 11:27

stujones wrote:Anybody know if that fight with John Castle is the end of Tommy as an official boxer.

As far as I understand he still aims to persue fights as a pro boxer - this bizarre event was simply a time filling exercise as opposed to him branching out into a new career..

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 11 Jun 2007, 11:39

Well yes and no, USA Today which provides the most comprehensive report suggest Morrison has had a positive test prior to his comeback and the MMA dont' conduct the same tests?

I could be misintepreting the info I've read but that was the jist.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 11 Jun 2007, 11:46

DavidPayne wrote:Well yes and no, USA Today which provides the most comprehensive report suggest Morrison has had a positive test prior to his comeback and the MMA dont' conduct the same tests?

I could be misintepreting the info I've read but that was the jist.

Its like any sport in the USA Dave - if you ply your trade in back water States without effective Athletic commisions then both pro boxing and MMA can get away without the kind of stringent testing you would hope to see.

MMA in Nevada, for example, falls under the auspecies of their excellent and thorough commission and therefore the fighters are subject to the same gamut of tests and regulations that boxers are.

Its a question of state regulation as opposed to indivual sports running the tests independantly.

As far as the MOrrison positive test result is concerned there have been many rumours arguing both sides for a long time now - I wont be convinced he is 'clear' until there is irrefutable independant medical evidence put forward by an unbiased source. Until that time I would like to see The Duke kept out of the ring.

Boxing is 'a blood sport' and whilst the chances of cross infection are tiny I would like to see a firm stance taken on this matter.

E · Post by E » 12 Jun 2007, 05:52

monkeybutler wrote:I feel sorry for Stover. He turns up thinking "at least the MMA aspect could be a leveller in this fight" and then gets told he can only punch. What a joke.

Yeah I mean how can he expect to win against a former world class boxer if only punching is allowed.

And with 4 ounce gloves... though unlike bosing they can hold and hit and push...

BTW MOrrison has a great pair of tits - implants?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jun 2007, 06:53

Morrisons body looks extremely bizzare. They do look like pectoral implants don't they.

He really looks badly ravaged for a guy his age. Not surprisingly. HIV, drug and alcohol abuse, steroids, doesn't exactly lead to a healthy body.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 12 Jun 2007, 07:59

He real is forcing his body to look the part.

As a youth he had a far less 'cut' physique.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 12 Jun 2007, 10:07

DavidPayne wrote:He real is forcing his body to look the part.

As a youth he had a far less 'cut' physique.

To reinforce your point Dave:

Morrison from the 'Tommy Gunn' era.

Morrison today.

I know none of us look particularly better with 20 years of aging to account for, but Morrison looks particularly weathered and strained almost.

Contrasting Foreman between his two title reigns - he looks a much older man in his later campaign, but somehow alot more naturally aged than this version of 'The Duke'

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 10:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Morrisons body looks extremely bizzare. They do look like pectoral implants don't they.

He really looks badly ravaged for a guy his age. Not surprisingly. HIV, drug and alcohol abuse, steroids, doesn't exactly lead to a healthy body.

He could have been a dumb ass and injected into his pecs, leaving oil deposits there. (you should only inject into your butt/legs ideally)

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 12 Jun 2007, 11:43

He cuts a sad, shadowy figure.

A real ghost of his prime.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:04

boxrec wrote:its a very confusing situation. i mean surely if you test positive for hiv, you definitely have it...... you dont just heal/get cured as it is terminal. Very dodgy. For his and every other fighters safety, the sooner he gets a proper medical test, the better.

You can disguise your blood when taking certain medications so your test comes back as undetectable for HIV - you still have it, it just doesn't show up on tests. Magic Johnson doesn't show up on tests as having HIV I believe

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Jun 2007, 12:14

boxrec wrote:its a very confusing situation. i mean surely if you test positive for hiv, you definitely have it...... you dont just heal/get cured as it is terminal. Very dodgy. For his and every other fighters safety, the sooner he gets a proper medical test, the better.

False positives DO occur, this is what Tommy is CLAIMING happened with him. A host of other issues (such as Drugs, other illness) can actually make a non-HIV person test positive.

On the flip side, HIV prescribed drugs (and I am sure other drugs) can mask the effects and a HIV positive individual can officially test negative.

According to Tommy (and I think that is an important factor) prior to his fight with Castle he did get a PROPER independent test that tested Negative. Question is, whether he is geniunally negative can probably never be done unless you get someone to monitor his wherabouts and what he is putting into his system months before his actual test.

Question I would like to know that if Tommy is masking the test results via Drugs, does that make his opponent less likely to contract HIV than if he doesn't mask it and fails a test (but still fights). Obviously, more likely than a non-HIV person, but are the chances as high as a person who actually shows up in the tests as HIV positive.

Thats an important question IMO, because of the frequency of false positives, it could be a case that the only possible solution is to grant him a licence providing he takes monthly HIV tests. One or two HIV tests are not going to be accurate, especially in Tommy's case where he taking alot of drugs and had other illnesses at the time of him having his licensed revoked.

I don't know if Tommy has fallen into financial difficulties in recent years, but around 3-4 years back there was an interview on Doghouse boxing in which Tommy revealed then he hadn't tested positive in years... but AT THAT TIME DIDN'T WANT TO COME BACk and also THOUGHT HE HAD THE DISEASE.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 13 Jun 2007, 01:33

I think it was somewhat disappointing to see a slug fest rather than the standard 'get on the floor, roll around with another man, grope him, eventually choke him out with a crotch hold' standard MMA bout

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 13 Jun 2007, 07:13

Tommy Morrison's former agent said the fighter tested positive for the
HIV virus in mandatory blood tests for a boxing license, The Arizona Republic reported Friday on its Web site.

"Tommy has tested positive for the HIV antibodies and he always has," Randy Lang told the newspaper on Friday.

Lang said he stopped working for Morrison, the former heavyweight champion set to make his mixed martial arts debut Saturday night at Cliff Castle Casino, on Feb. 25 because the tests had been misrepresented by the boxer and promoter Peter McKinn.

A message left on McKinn's cell phone wasn't immediately returned.

The 38-year-old Morrison has been attempting a comeback after an 11-year retirement following the discovery that he was HIV positive. Morrison says he has taken several HIV tests during his comeback bid and all have been negative.

"They've been telling me I've been dying for 11 years," Morrison said Thursday.

Lang told the Republic that he witnessed tests in Phoenix in January that were reported to be negative. The tests, also witnessed by McKinn and John Montano of the Arizona State Boxing Commission, were supposed to have been the basis for a West Virginia license that allowed Morrison to fight John Castle. Morrison knocking out John Castle in the second round.

Lang told the newspaper Friday that either the documentation was fraudulent or that the blood samples were switched.

Morrison was scheduled to fight in Houston in late April, but was pulled from the bout because state boxing officials didn't get the results of lab tests in time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Jun 2007, 08:17

As I understand it, there are two types of test.

One test, tests for proteins or other substances in the blood which are present in people with HIV. The antitetroviral drugs often mask these results.

The other tests for the presence of the virus itself, and this test is not affected by drugs.

Just because Tommy has had HIV for 11 years and isn't dying is irrelevant, he can still pass the virus on.

Morrisson is a really repellent human being, it seems he knows he has the virus, but doesn't care about the risks to his fellow fighters so long as he can make a living. What a jackass!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Jun 2007, 17:12

jamesmcdonnell wrote:As I understand it, there are two types of test.

One test, tests for proteins or other substances in the blood which are present in people with HIV. The antitetroviral drugs often mask these results.

The other tests for the presence of the virus itself, and this test is not affected by drugs.

Just because Tommy has had HIV for 11 years and isn't dying is irrelevant, he can still pass the virus on.

Morrisson is a really repellent human being, it seems he knows he has the virus, but doesn't care about the risks to his fellow fighters so long as he can make a living. What a jackass!

I do COMPLETELY agree if your last paragraph is true, and of course if it is true then of course Tommy shouldn't be allowed to fight. However, the words Tommy "former" agent is critical here (or at least could be)... perhaps he is saying the truth, but perhaps he is not.

This guy, left Tommy in February... but Tommy had been training for a comeback in October last year - been claiming he was testing negative and HIV free for year. Why all of a sudden has his former agent feveloped a conscious.

Yes, we need it clarified and yes its needs to be independent. But the problem is that neither test is bomb proof. Yes, I believe your correct that masking agent are undetected on one such test - but its still not bomb proof... in that an HIV positive result can be attributed to other illness or drugs. So Tommy could say "well the reason why I my results show positive is because I am on so and so"... as I said, it would probably need a medical man to practically live with Morrison to make sure he isn't doing anything daft prior to a test.

I did read that doghouseboxing interview (mentioned in my earlier thread) at the time and I geniunally believe that Tommy has tested negative long before a comeback plan, but didn't know much about the frequency of false positives to think "hey, perhaps I am that"... or more calliciously, later found out about false positives and thought "hey, I can take advantage of this".

I do geniunally believe that Tommy has tested negative for sometime... why though is a question that probably only Tommy can vouch for.

Not the most accurate, but maybe he needs to go under a lie detector to discuss his habbits, health prior to each negative test.

As hard it is to believe Tommy is Mr Innocent and just trying to make a living, it is also hard to believe that this agent doesn't have some vendenta... as I said, why now the conscious.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 14 Jun 2007, 00:26

I know none of us look particularly better with 20 years of aging to account for, but Morrison looks particularly weathered and strained almost.

Contrasting Foreman between his two title reigns - he looks a much older man in his later campaign, but somehow alot more naturally aged than this version of 'The Duke'

Simple answer= black men/women age better than white men/women.

Don't believe in that, see how better looking physically Morgan Freeman looks compared to Clint Eastwood, and both them men are passed their 60's and into their 70's.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 Jun 2007, 06:44

Yes, there is a degree of that of course. Black skin is more resilient and tougher than white people's more fragile and thin skin, and of course has more Melanin to protect it. There's also the factor that many people of west african origin (most of the black people in the UK and America are of West African Descent), have a genetic trait whereby they have less body fat and more testosterone which enables them to hold their physiques better.

However, I'm 36 years of age, only a couple of years younger than Morrison, and I look a hell of a lot less ravaged than Morrison does, and Morrison has the advantage of having been a fit and healthy pro athlete for many years. I'm sure Morrison could kick my ass, but his face looks bloody terrible and his body looks downright weird.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 14 Jun 2007, 18:45

Last Saturday, Tommy "The Duke" Morrison stepped into the Octagon for the first time ever, but this was not a normal mixed martial arts contest. Morrison drew a lot of criticism for allegedly "changing the rules" at the last minute for his bout with John Stover, which Morrison ultimately won by knockout in the first round. Here, Morrison explains that the fight was never to be anything more than a hands-only stand up striking match. He also refutes the claims by his former "attorney"/agent/publicist Randy Lang that he is HIV positive. Read on to see what Morrison has to say on these and other topics.
SN: Hi Tommy, how are you doing?

TM: Pretty good, considering the circumstances.

SN: Okay, what happened with this fight last weekend?

TM: It was a f*cking fiasco, I've never been involved in anything like that in my life. I had no idea what the rules were, no one was telling me. I walked into the cage and I didn't know if this guy was going to be kicking me, headbutting me, elbowing me. The guy charged at me and threw me all the way across the cage, smashed me into the fence, and grabbed me in a chokehold. The guy rams me into the cage and I looked at the referee like "what the f*ck?" The referee was like "hey that's part of the rules." I got out of that one, and put him in one. He's wide as a Volkswagen, and I wrestled around with him for about 45 seconds trying to get to one side or the other. Then I spun and he ran into the fence, he stood back up and I caught him with a straight right to the solar plexus and that took the wind out of him. Then I hit him with a left hook/uppercut to the nose, and his nose just disappeared. He turned sideways holding his nose and just froze, so I ran toward him and hit him with a right hand that dropped him like a ton of bricks. His nose was messed up, there was a huge puddle of blood.

SN: What was the delay in you getting to the cage and why were people unhappy?

TM: They had me set up in a VIP room at the hotel, and I was warming up in there. It was just a little ride up to the casino on a golf cart, and when he got into the ring, they radioed us and told us to head over in the golf cart. For the last month we've told everyone that it was going to be a strictly hands only striking match, and then they started promoting it as an MMA event, which I thought was pretty bad on their part. I did two or three different interviews and it was in the papers, and it stated in our contract that it was strictly hands only. They really thought this guy was going to beat me, he was one of their boys on the reservation. If an MMA guy came into a boxing event and beat a boxer, they would have booed him too. From what I understand they booed everybody.

SN: How did the boos affect you, if at all?

TM: I knew what was going on. If I had been out there in the crowd and that was my friend and I was drunk, I probably would have booed too. I just went out there and did exactly what I said I was going to do. At the press conference I said I would even feel more comfortable if they would agree to let me fight in 10 ounce pro fight gloves because I was concerned for this guy's safety. They told me to just go through with it. Now the guy doesn't have a nose.

SN: It was reported that you came to the cage looking reluctant and barking at your entourage. What happened there?

TM: I was pissed. People don't have any idea, and if they could see what went on in the last hour and a half before I got in the ring, they would be amazed that I got in there and did what I did. I was so proud of myself for overcoming all those obstacles and not knowing what I was dealing with.

SN: Also reported is that you were badly out of breath during and after the fight. (Note: Tommy's publicist and fiancée, Lisa Woodard, reported to me prior to speaking with Tommy that part of the problem here was due to Stover rushing Tommy and slamming his forearm into Tommy's windpipe.)

TM: You can't wrestle around with a 340-pound man for two minutes and not be breathing hard. What do these people expect? Do they expect me to walk on water? Do they think I'm super human and run on nitrous oxide and not oxygen? What the hell? Why am I always the butt of everyone's criticism? I just don't understand it. Jesus! Eleven years it's been and people act like I just f*cking retired last week. Nobody's fair to me, and I'm just sick of it.

SN: You mentioned before the fight that you were worried about fighting with the smaller gloves because of your concern you may kill someone. How did that feel?

TM: It felt dangerous. They're going to have to regulate that sport because if boxers start crossing over, big heavyweights who know how to punch, those guys are going to be dead. It was very dangerous. I wasn't excited about it. I didn't hurt my hand or anything, but you can't throw full power in those things because you'll break your hand every time if you have any power at all.

SN: And a big deal was made over you being allowed to wear boxing shoes. What benefit is that in the cage?

TM: There is no benefit, it's just what I'm used to. As a matter of fact I would have had better traction if I had gone barefoot, because it was vinyl flooring, and it gets wet from sweat and they have to towel it off. There's no advantage, it's not like I'm kicking him.

SN: Do you think you will ever participate in an MMA event again?

TM: I'm not too excited about doing another one and I'm damn sure not going to do another one for the money they paid me. I'd do it again if they make it worth my while. I proved my point, I'm not the one who opened my mouth. They really thought this guy was going to beat me.

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/newman/newman_061407.htm