What fighter has the greatest achievement?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 08:57

What is it and who achieved it?

Is it Armstrong's 3 championships?

Louis's record defences?

Johnson the first black Heavyweight?

Grebb's record of wins?

Charles beating the greatest 175 champion ever 3 times?

Roninson's campaign at 160 when he was way past his best?

Duran's win over Leonard?

Ali regaining the title against Foreman?

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 08:58

IMO it is Foreman winning the world title at age 44-45. That really is an amazing feat. George was carefully matched etc... but still, to win the greatest proze in sport at that age is remarkable.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:10

Armstrongs 3 championships

Winning and holding three real titles in three full divisions against the competition he faced was remarkable.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:27

Got to be Henry Armstrong's achievements.

His was a REAL achievement, before all the spurious world title belts & the ridiculous weight classes we have now.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:30

Terry D wrote:Joe Calzaghe's long winning run, during which he has taken on all-comers.

You're right when you say all-comers...

He needs to be applauded for taking on a varied cross section of the boxers in his weight class rather than just sticking to the usual route of just fighting top 10 contenders.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:38

Terry D wrote:
Ezzard wrote:
Terry D wrote:Joe Calzaghe's long winning run, during which he has taken on all-comers.
You're right when you say all-comers...

He needs to be applauded for taking on a varied cross section of the boxers in his weight class rather than just sticking to the usual route of just fighting top 10 contenders.
Aye, he is an inspiration to us all

Could all be forgiven if he wins this one plus say 2 more big fights and retires.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:42

Terry D wrote:
Ezzard wrote:
Terry D wrote: Aye, he is an inspiration to us all
Could all be forgiven if he wins this one plus say 2 more big fights and retires.

Yeah, it grates a bit that Lacy and Kessler, his two biggest wins, fell into his lap based on their desire to unify.

Once he's retired I think his record will be the most deceptive in many years.

Know what you mean, though he still has to beat Kessler first. If you know something I don't please PM me as I could do with a windfall from the bookies.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 19 Oct 2007, 09:50

The most deceptive record since Sven Ottke

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 19 Oct 2007, 15:34

Ezzard wrote:What is it and who achieved it?

Is it Armstrong's 3 championships?

Louis's record defences?

Johnson the first black Heavyweight?

Grebb's record of wins?

Charles beating the greatest 175 champion ever 3 times?

Roninson's campaign at 160 when he was way past his best?

Duran's win over Leonard?

Ali regaining the title against Foreman?

Some of these achievements are like comparing apples and oranges because some are based on one or two fights and others are more based on a career.
Having said that, I'm leaning toward Armstrong's 3 titles as the best, with Robinson's success at and advanced age, Foreman winning the title at 45, and Greb's wins against top fighters of multiple weight classes up there.

A few more that be mentioned:
Ray Robinson being 128-1-2 at one time. (Especially considering his competition.)
Ray Leonard moving up to middleweight and beating Hagler after a long layoff.
Wilfred Benitez beating Cervantes for a world title at the age of 17.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 19 Oct 2007, 15:38

It won't get to #1, but Douglas victory over that version of Tyson can never be understated.

Awesom-O · Post by **Awesom-O** » 19 Oct 2007, 18:24

armstrong's trifecta.

Awesom-O · Post by **Awesom-O** » 19 Oct 2007, 18:24

quitali's 5 straight cancellations. :D

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 21 Oct 2007, 02:47

I gotta say the 3 titles at the same time by Armstrong. Just looking at his record, that feat has never been duplicated. Being a featherweight champ, then jumps 20 pounds to fight an exceptional fighter like Barney Ross, beating him in extraordinary fashion, and then takes the title dropping 12 pounds to fight a fighting machine like Lou Ambers was to me, totally amazing. He gotta be the greatest of all-time!

Robinson fighting at an advanced age winning the middleweight crown 5 times to me is OVERRATED. And then that record that he had in his prime of 129-1-1 from 1943 to 1951 is no different of what Jimmy Wilde and Willie Pep had in their primes. Robinson was fighting the same people over and over again. LaMotta? He fought him 5 times in that span. He never beat Kid Gavilan in my view, and never fought the REAL BLACK CONTENDERS like Holman Williamsm, Charley Burley, Ezzard Charles and Cocoa Kid for example.

theone · Post by **theone** » 21 Oct 2007, 03:19

elmersalsa wrote:I gotta say the 3 titles at the same time by Armstrong. Just looking at his record, that feat has never been duplicated. Being a featherweight champ, then jumps 20 pounds to fight an exceptional fighter like Barney Ross, beating him in extraordinary fashion, and then takes the title dropping 12 pounds to fight a fighting machine like Lou Ambers was to me, totally amazing. He gotta be the greatest of all-time!

Robinson fighting at an advanced age winning the middleweight crown 5 times to me is OVERRATED. And then that record that he had in his prime of 129-1-1 from 1943 to 1951 is no different of what Jimmy Wilde and Willie Pep had in their primes. Robinson was fighting the same people over and over again. LaMotta? He fought him 5 times in that span. He never beat Kid Gavilan in my view, and never fought the REAL BLACK CONTENDERS like Holman Williamsm, Charley Burley, Ezzard Charles and Cocoa Kid for example.

Holman Williams was done and Charles was a heavyweight by the time Robinson became a full fledged middleweight. You cant hold it against him for not fighting them. Cocoa Kid for as good as he was, lost lots of times to much lesser fighters than Robinson. The fact they never fought should be irrelevant when judging Robinson's career. I don't know why a match was never made between Robinson and Burley but I don't think it discredits either of their careers that it didn't happen.
I do agree that winning the middleweight crown 5 time is a tad overrated. He did, in fact have to lose it three times to accomplish that.

I also agree with you that Armstrong's achievement is the greatest ever; but I place him third all time slightly behind Robinson. I think Robinson's longevity edges it out for me when all is said and done.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 23 Oct 2007, 01:58

theone wrote:
elmersalsa wrote:I gotta say the 3 titles at the same time by Armstrong. Just looking at his record, that feat has never been duplicated. Being a featherweight champ, then jumps 20 pounds to fight an exceptional fighter like Barney Ross, beating him in extraordinary fashion, and then takes the title dropping 12 pounds to fight a fighting machine like Lou Ambers was to me, totally amazing. He gotta be the greatest of all-time!

Robinson fighting at an advanced age winning the middleweight crown 5 times to me is OVERRATED. And then that record that he had in his prime of 129-1-1 from 1943 to 1951 is no different of what Jimmy Wilde and Willie Pep had in their primes. Robinson was fighting the same people over and over again. LaMotta? He fought him 5 times in that span. He never beat Kid Gavilan in my view, and never fought the REAL BLACK CONTENDERS like Holman Williamsm, Charley Burley, Ezzard Charles and Cocoa Kid for example.
Holman Williams was done and Charles was a heavyweight by the time Robinson became a full fledged middleweight. You cant hold it against him for not fighting them. Cocoa Kid for as good as he was, lost lots of times to much lesser fighters than Robinson. The fact they never fought should be irrelevant when judging Robinson's career. I don't know why a match was never made between Robinson and Burley but I don't think it discredits either of their careers that it didn't happen.
I do agree that winning the middleweight crown 5 time is a tad overrated. He did, in fact have to lose it three times to accomplish that.

I also agree with you that Armstrong's achievement is the greatest ever; but I place him third all time slightly behind Robinson. I think Robinson's longevity edges it out for me when all is said and done.

Well, how about a fight with Charles in 1942 or 1943??? Ain't Charles beat Burley in 1946? How about a fight with Tony Zale since he was fighting LaMotta? Or a fight with Marcel Cerdan?

If Armstrong was a middleweight or welterweight of that era, there would be no doubt that he would have fought them all.

Robinson took 2 years of retirement in his 12th year as a pro. Armstrong fought for 14 years straight. Armstrong did it all...He did not need the longevity to prove that he was better than Robinson...Just to mention that he defended the welter crown in 1939 11 times, which is a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD, 3 times in one month, which is also a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD and beat 14 hall of famers is a testament as the greatest fighter pound per pound. All that, doing it going up and down in weight, fighting incredible opposition.

Did Robinson ever win 46 fights in a row?
Did Robinson ever win 27 straight fights by KO in one year?

There is no contest...Armstrong is the NEW KING FOR ME, POUND PER POUND.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 23 Oct 2007, 02:00

elmersalsa wrote:Did Robinson ever win 46 fights in a row?

LOL!!

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 23 Oct 2007, 02:17

I think, Elmer, Robinson won something in the vicinity of 90-odd bouts consecutively before losing to Turpin. Whether that gives you pause for thought or not about his P4P standing, you'll have to tell us.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 23 Oct 2007, 02:22

What about Roy Jones Jr being the only man to have won Titles from Middleweight to Heavyweight?

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 23 Oct 2007, 02:44

How about Roy Jones' having had hundreds, maybe even thousands of cocks...

Even De La Hoya has probably only had a few dozen cocks.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 23 Oct 2007, 04:23

Aaah I reckon it's Henry Armstrong having I think it was 5 welter title fights within a 3-4 week period. Think about that today for a moment, where 2 title fights a year is pushing it

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 23 Oct 2007, 05:14

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I think, Elmer, Robinson won something in the vicinity of 90-odd bouts consecutively before losing to Turpin. Whether that gives you pause for thought or not about his P4P standing, you'll have to tell us.

Robinson might had a 91 fight unbeaten streak, but he NEVER WON MORE THAN 40 FIGHTS IN A ROW

That is not more different than Willie Pep's consecutive fights without a loss, or Jimmy Wilde's or Julio Cesar Chavez' 87 wins in a row.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 23 Oct 2007, 05:17

Wilfred Benitez winning the title at 17 is amazing...Consider the fact that before fighting for the title, he did not had a notable opponent on his record. He was a teen-ager fighting a grown man. A great grown man, one of the best 140 pound champions of all time in Antonio Cervantes.

That gotta be amazing!!!

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 23 Oct 2007, 11:19

Well, elmer maybe there is hope for you yet. Yes, that was a great achievement for Benitez.

Your tirades against Robinson are ridiculaus. Yes, he had a couple of draws and one loss in 131 fights. He also had 3 winning streaks of over 30 wins. 40 wins, 36 wins, 38 wins. Even Armstrong only one win streak over 30.
Pep,Wilde and Chavez had great records and were great fighters. However, Chavez didn't fight the competition that Robinson did, and Pep and Wilde's competiton during their "streaks" weren't even remotely close.

Robinson had one loss in 131 fights to a great fighter that outweighed by 16 pounds. Not only that, he actually beat that fighter 4 times though greatly outweighed. Not to mention stoping him again when he was a middleweight.

Robinson didn't just fight La Motta 5 times (and beat him 4 times) when Robinson wasn't a middleweight. He also beat Hall of Famers Gavilan, Angott, Olson, and Zivic. Not to mention good fighters like Bell, Doyle,Belloise,Villemain,Servo, and Delanoit etc.

I love how in your view Gavilan beat Robinson. You never saw them fight

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 23 Oct 2007, 15:06

For me is Benitez winning a championship at the age of 17, although I'm extremely bias here. And by the way his name is Wilfredo Benitez, I don't know why they always list him as Wilfred? boxrec should fixed that.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 23 Oct 2007, 17:01

I think his real name is Wilfred. He was called both Wilfred and Wilfredo.

What fighter has the greatest achievement?

What fighter has the greatest achievement?

Re: What fighter has the greatest achievement?

Re: What fighter has the greatest achievement?