amir khan makes me sick

[oliverfennell]

There will be a full house at the MEN saturday hoping a young British boxer wins a world title. The atmosphere is going to be fantastic, i cant wait to go.

Are you back in the UK now?

For a few weeks i am, the hayfeaver (not hayefeaver) is driving me round the bend

Let me know when you're back this way then. Just please don't make me go back to that bar where the bartenders opened the beers with their sphincters.

[oliverfennell]

and yet it could be argued that kotelnik is the best and most proven of the 140-pound world title holders - pacquiao notwithstanding. pac probably only fights catchweights now - vs skeletal former welterweights - and it's doubtful he ever defends his "legit" world title

So Hatton was too small at welter and is now skeletal at light-welter?

[mickeyb]

I'll be buying the PPV (or maybe just watching it, rather than acually *buying* it...) for two reasons: it's a good, well-matched fight between an exciting young offensive fighter with chin issues, and a cagey, tough, experienced pro, and it's backed by a decent supporting bill. Everything else is irrelevant.

I'm bored with the whole 'saviours of boxing' thing now. Boxing was a fornicating corrupt mess when I started watching 20 years ago. I moaned and complained and ranted as much as everyone else, and guess what? It got worse, not better.

Right now I think boxing fans have two options: accept that the organisation behind boxing always has been, and always will be, a pathetic, shell of an organised 'sport', support the fighters and forget about the promoters and governing bodies, and watch the good fights when they happen. Or go and find another way to spend their evenings, because we've all complained for years and it's never going to change!

I realise I'm just admitting defeat here, but I have a lot more free time now that I watch a lot less boxing. I'm going to watch my local speedway team, started painting again, watching a lot more live music, growing my own tomatoes - it's quite liberating!

Rant over... :P

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's a shoddy situation and it does stick in the craw - but it's hardly an unusual situation. Khan gets additional bile because of the build up he has had and the heavily weighed matchmaking leading up to this fight.[/quote]

If you see one of my above posts you'll see I attach no blame whatsoever to the kid personally. I do like him. It's what his ascension to this position represents. And your last sentence is bang on.[/quote]

Believe me Ian, I'm with you, I despise the cheap and tawdry route to the top that has almost become the norm now in this country. Eschewing the gradual learning curve and gritty route robs the fans of quality fights, and robs the domestic scene of the strength in depth it requires.

It used to be a matter of pride and turf for the top domestic boys to fight one another, now it only happens if bald economics intervene, usually when one or both fighters have been exposed at top level and are forced to drop down.

To be honest, I'm pretty sick of boxing right now. Aside from the odd international matchup, and watching some of the youngsters coming through which is always interesting, it's boring the shit out of me.

[observer1]

Do people actually think Khan is going to win?

I'd like him to win personally, but surely moving UP in weight class in addition to his defence issues is an accident waiting to happen...

[dondada]

It used to be a matter of pride and turf for the top domestic boys to fight one another, now it only happens if bald economics intervene.

Very well put. And as for being sick of boxing, I'm not there yet. I pretty much am with football though, also because of economics. It's only the inculcated hatred of rival teams and supporters which I will never shake off which keeps me interested.

[leeharding]

look i will not be buying this ppv crap on saturday night...why??

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie

totallty agree mate superb post hes a twat in my eyes the only way to redeem himself is beat prescott wich wont happen

[Autobarn]

Do people actually think Khan is going to win?

I'd like him to win personally, but surely moving UP in weight class in addition to his defence issues is an accident waiting to happen...

could well be if a few well timed shots from natural super feathers put him on the floor. kotelnik may not be a puncher but he's very correct with good instincts and good timing.

perhaps his lightweight speed will be even more pronounced, up at light welter. if so, i still think he will have a mid fight fade, will take some body shots and get hurt. i am really interested to see what happens when khan is in trouble. whether he can ride out the rough patches or if he simply falls apart.

reckon the ideal khan performance is a fast start, come through the rough patches, survive and close strong, putting on a show for the fans.

[Datsue]

nigel benn or even eubank avoiding a fight because the opponent could punch,no i thought not

No, but both of them avoided blokes who they knew would beat them -- McCallum, Toney, Nunn, Kalambay. Big respect to Nigel for fighting Mclellan, but who did he beat for his world titles? Was it Doug "done in seven rounds by Kalambay" De Witt & Mauro "Hahahahaha" Galvano? Yes, I think it was.

The "80's British middleweight Glory Years" always seemed a bit silly to me -- glorified British title fights. Liked the fighters involved, & there were some good fights, but what I'm getting at is that Amir Khan getting an "unwarranted" world title shot is not a new thing. Yet people act like it is & use it to justify their vitriol toward the lad.

Fer instance, how does this dance card qualify a fighter coming off a heavy knockout against an unfavoured opponent at regional title level a world title shot:

Split decision over Sanderline Williams
KO over Jose Quinones
Points win over Jorge Amparo.

If the innernetz was around in 1987, would people be "disgusted" at our Nige getting the shot versus De Witt (who I can't honestly say is any better or worse than Kotelnik)?



PS: I await with baited breath the follow up posts declaring that Nunn, Toney, Kalambay & Julian Jackson were actually all simultaneously avoiding the Brits, cowering in fear whilst they fought each other in America & Monaco for actual world title supremacy.

[dondada]

nigel benn or even eubank avoiding a fight because the opponent could punch,no i thought not

No, but both of them avoided blokes who they knew would beat them -- McCallum, Toney, Nunn, Kalambay.

Although I understand your general points (and think your revisionist approach is necessary, actually) the above list really does put the avoidance of Murray into perspective then, eh?

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Do people actually think Khan is going to win?

I'd like him to win personally, but surely moving UP in weight class in addition to his defence issues is an accident waiting to happen...

50:50 for me, i think it should be a good fight.

That was a boring post, i will admit.

[Datsue]

nigel benn or even eubank avoiding a fight because the opponent could punch,no i thought not

No, but both of them avoided blokes who they knew would beat them -- McCallum, Toney, Nunn, Kalambay.

Although I understand your general points (and think your revisionist approach is necessary, actually) the above list really does put the avoidance of Murray into perspective then, eh?

Very much so -- & yes I was playing to the gallery a little.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

There will be a full house at the MEN saturday hoping a young British boxer wins a world title. The atmosphere is going to be fantastic, i cant wait to go.

Are you back in the UK now?

For a few weeks i am, the hayfeaver (not hayefeaver) is driving me round the bend

Let me know when you're back this way then. Just please don't make me go back to that bar where the bartenders opened the beers with their sphincters.

do you mean Chequers?

I told Nick to pack that in......


Back in 2 weeks.

[Autobarn]

nigel benn or even eubank avoiding a fight because the opponent could punch,no i thought not

No, but both of them avoided blokes who they knew would beat them -- McCallum, Toney, Nunn, Kalambay. Big respect to Nigel for fighting Mclellan, but who did he beat for his world titles? Was it Doug "done in seven rounds by Kalambay" De Witt & Mauro "Hahahahaha" Galvano? Yes, I think it was.

The "80's British middleweight Glory Years" always seemed a bit silly to me -- glorified British title fights. Liked the fighters involved, & there were some good fights, but what I'm getting at is that Amir Khan getting an "unwarranted" world title shot is not a new thing. Yet people act like it is & use it to justify their vitriol toward the lad.

Fer instance, how does this dance card qualify a fighter coming off a heavy knockout against an unfavoured opponent at regional title level a world title shot:

Split decision over Sanderline Williams
KO over Jose Quinones
Points win over Jorge Amparo.

If the innernetz was around in 1987, would people be "disgusted" at our Nige getting the shot versus De Witt (who I can't honestly say is any better or worse than Kotelnik)?



PS: I await with baited breath the follow up posts declaring that Nunn, Toney, Kalambay & Julian Jackson were actually all simultaneously avoiding the Brits, cowering in fear whilst they fought each other in America & Monaco for actual world title supremacy.

eveyr fighter is managed in a certain way. i find it a bit silly questioning benn, who has wins over mcclellan, dewitt, barkley, and who won his belts away from home, who fought some of the best yanks and fought the best brits as well (even if he lost to eubank and watson). i don't like calling some of these fights glorified british title fights. the fights with eubank were tremendous box office and worthy of the titles that were on the line - and generated more interest than anythig involving mccallum or nunn. if two world class brits fight for a world title, it isn't necessarily a glorified british title fight. what's wrong with good business, if the fight delivers?

[McCannW14]

look i will not be buying this ppv crap on saturday night...why??

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie

Daft post. Its called being well managed and promoted.

Daft comparing him to Audley, Khan fights and has fighting heart. Audley runs away in most fights.

Sure Khan is fragile and he may well come unstuck against Kotelnik. BUT... If Khan boxes a masterclass and beats Kotelnik there is no denying he is world class.

I want Khan to win, and then fight Hatton. I pick Kotelnik to stop Khan. Though I wouldnt be massively surprised if Khan boxes well and wins a decision.

If Khan beats Kotelnik, he will beat Hatton too.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It used to be a matter of pride and turf for the top domestic boys to fight one another, now it only happens if bald economics intervene.

Very well put. And as for being sick of boxing, I'm not there yet. I pretty much am with football though, also because of economics. It's only the inculcated hatred of rival teams and supporters which I will never shake off which keeps me interested.

To qualify, I think it's domestic boxing which sickens me. There are so many fights which haven't happened over the last decade, that would have happened back in the 90's. I'm not stupid enough to think that nobody avoided anyone back then, but any fighter with a profile now it seems (with rare exceptions such as Froch, Haye and a few others), avoids any risks against domestic opposition. They fight for world titles before they've even proved they are the best in their own back yard, let alone europe or the world.

It's the endemic greed of many fighters which I think is the malaise. I think it's wrong to blame the promoters. At the end of the day, if a fighter really wants to fight someone, there is always a way to make it happen, but the will has to be there. Ricky Hatton is a perfect example, he clearly bullshitted the public about a fight with Witter. I understand the economics of the situation, but it would have been a terrific clash for boxing fans.

Ultimately, boxing has paid the price for this. Domestic dust-ups used to draw huge audiences, the likes of Cooper Bugner were massive events, and a british title fight could command tremendous viewing figures.

Fast forward to the present day, and boxing is dead as a door-knocker on terrestrial TV, and we have a single outlet pretty much now in Sky. We have more and more PPV's that don't warrant the price tag, which further harm the exposure of the sport by marginalising it.

The top flight of the boxing world are creaming off the top whilst the lower orders are feeding from an increasingly dwindling pot, and this situation is unsustainable.

[Datsue]

Dear Autobarn: I am not denigrating Benn. Pray show me where I did that?

I was using the careers of some very popular domestic fighters & having the old compare & contrast with the career trajectory of Khan.
My post tried to point out that the way people around here respond to Khan is not -- despite protestations -- based on his management style. Or if it is based on his management style, then those people are either retarded or have very short memories.

Ignoring your seemingly wilful misunderstanding of everything I type, let's focus on this, & maybe you will see what I am getting at:

what's wrong with good business, if the fight delivers?

If we take your own feelings on this as something we both agree on, would you agree that one could extrapolate from it that it's okay for, say, Khan not to fight Murray, if it makes better business -- & also makes a good fight -- to fight Kotelnik? & also that if a fight is "good business" then it matters not in the purist anorak boring bastard sense that the two fellas aren't the best in the world?

[banjo]

look i will not be buying this ppv crap on saturday night...why??

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie

totallty agree mate superb post hes a twat in my eyes the only way to redeem himself is beat prescott wich wont happen

So if Khan went on to beat Kotelnik, Maidana, Bradley, Witter and Hatton all fights which have been put forward should he beat Kotelnik(Oh and by the way I'm not saying he WILL beat all of them - infact I think all of them beat him - I'm saying IF he beat them) he'd still be a "twat" for not avenging a loss to Prescott?

[dondada]

look i will not be buying this ppv crap on saturday night...why??

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie

totallty agree mate superb post hes a twat in my eyes the only way to redeem himself is beat prescott wich wont happen

So if Khan went on to beat Kotelnik, Maidana, Bradley, Witter and Hatton all fights which have been put forward should he beat Kotelnik(Oh and by the way I'm not saying he WILL beat all of them - infact I think all of them beat him - I'm saying IF he beat them) he'd still be a "twat" for not avenging a loss to Prescott?

It's quite clear, banjo.

Yes.

[banjo]

OK :(

[leeharding]

[

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie[/quote]

totallty agree mate superb post hes a twat in my eyes the only way to redeem himself is beat prescott wich wont happen[/quote]

So if Khan went on to beat Kotelnik, Maidana, Bradley, Witter and Hatton all fights which have been put forward should he beat Kotelnik(Oh and by the way I'm not saying he WILL beat all of them - infact I think all of them beat him - I'm saying IF he beat them) he'd still be a "twat" for not avenging a loss to Prescott?[/quote]

It's quite clear, banjo.

Yes. [/quote]
ye he would be hes a twat lets av it right lads he should not bhe fighting for a world title prescott should have that chance before him i hope if khan wins one day prescott will challenge him for his belt im sure prescott will smash him again or atleast i hope he does

[Autobarn]

look i will not be buying this ppv crap on saturday night...why??

amir khan is a fraud , total hype

*he hasnt beaten anyone in the top 15-20
*his whole career has been made to avoid anyone with a punch - except prescott
*his whole career has been made to fight guys much physically smaller than him - except prescott
*before that famous minute vs prescott , the deluded one thought that he deserved to fight pacquaio
*ricky hatton was his best friend and he didnt want to fight him , why the change after the hatton/pacquaio fight???
*why no rematch with prescott??? , why no thaxton fight???
*why is khan already talking about ditching the WBA title if he wins it?? - see his next mandatory fight = a guy with a punch

im sorry but allegedly know amir has no chin at all , thats the reason he has been fighting much smaller and older guys

to top it off khan is fighting for the WBA title , who exactly is the real champion?? , how many fake champions do the WBA make for each weight??

ive always said that khan was no better than audley harrison , at least audley wanted to fight the best in the uk and guys with a punch.

amir khan has fought 1 guy in the top 20...he lasted 60 secs.........facts do not lie

totallty agree mate superb post hes a twat in my eyes the only way to redeem himself is beat prescott wich wont happen

So if Khan went on to beat Kotelnik, Maidana, Bradley, Witter and Hatton all fights which have been put forward should he beat Kotelnik(Oh and by the way I'm not saying he WILL beat all of them - infact I think all of them beat him - I'm saying IF he beat them) he'd still be a "twat" for not avenging a loss to Prescott?

no of course he woudn't.

look at vic darchinyan. so what if he lost to donaire. when he has KO wins over 4 world class flyweights and super flyweights, commands showtime headliners (rare for a little man). so what if he lost to agbeko - in his next fight he is going to gun for the one title at 115 - WBO - that he doesn't have.

the thing is khan may beat kotelnik, but i wouldn't be optimistic about the follow up fights. let's face it, with khan's chin, with warren's shuftyiness, it'll be surprising if he has any good defences. i doubt he faces power punching marcos maidana, the guy whom kotelnik edged in a thriller and the guy who smashed hype job victor ortiz. maidana is gong to be the next mandatory, so if khan wins on sat i wonder if he even keeps the belt. that might be twatish, but we'll have to see what happens. i'd just say enjoy sat's fight, because it's vs a solid technician.

[jamesmcdonnell]

the thing is khan may beat kotelnik, but i wouldn't be optimistic about the follow up fights. let's face it, with khan's chin, with warren's shuftyiness, it'll be surprising if he has any good defences. i doubt he faces power punching marcos maidana, the guy whom kotelnik edged in a thriller and the guy who smashed hype job victor ortiz. maidana is gong to be the next mandatory, so if khan wins on sat i wonder if he even keeps the belt. that might be twatish, but we'll have to see what happens. i'd just say enjoy sat's fight, because it's vs a solid technician.[/quote]

Khan will have a few soft defences if he wins, and then in about a year to eighteen months, provided Hatton hasn't retired, they'll try and lure him into the ring. They will probably wait to see how Hatton looks in his next fight, if he destroys his opponent they'll probably think better of it. If Hatton is in serious decline, then Warren will surely offer a big payday to cash in on Hatton's name. However, I wonder if they could possibly offer enough for Hatton to bite.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if he ditched the belt either.

[Autobarn]

i agree on hatton. the temptation and the potential money to be made will be too much for it not to happen. i bet wicky wouldn't mind another big payday given that he's in the costly and risky position of being a promoter. imagine the publicity he could get his own fighters - i.e. macklin, joe murray, martin murray (not related) - if he could put 'em on his undercard.

and no doubt khan and crew would not allow a big fight between the only 2 brits that mr average joe has heard of slip away. a name like hatton who has been in hugely successful fights in spite of having the stuffing knocked out of him.

PS has hatton got ppl monitoring these boards, as that amusing hatton has fallen ill thread seems to have vanished?

hatton controlling the media again? as when he banned marley from a show?

hatton's Winston Smith - sop meddling, put your tendrils away

[Autobarn]

Dear Autobarn: I am not denigrating Benn. Pray show me where I did that?

I was using the careers of some very popular domestic fighters & having the old compare & contrast with the career trajectory of Khan.
My post tried to point out that the way people around here respond to Khan is not -- despite protestations -- based on his management style. Or if it is based on his management style, then those people are either retarded or have very short memories.

Ignoring your seemingly wilful misunderstanding of everything I type, let's focus on this, & maybe you will see what I am getting at:

what's wrong with good business, if the fight delivers?

If we take your own feelings on this as something we both agree on, would you agree that one could extrapolate from it that it's okay for, say, Khan not to fight Murray, if it makes better business -- & also makes a good fight -- to fight Kotelnik? & also that if a fight is "good business" then it matters not in the purist anorak boring bastard sense that the two fellas aren't the best in the world?

i'd say domestic boxing was different back then. good business now = pure shit to watch, much of the time.

what i was getting at, is that how bloody good was it for the 2 biggest names in the country, who happened to be 2 of the best in the world, fighting each other? domestic rivalries can be great, and that goes for the recent all canadian (pascal-diaconu) and all Aussie (mundine-geale) which were great fights and big events and delivered world class action - all the way.

i would say the benn and eubank fights were world class fights, as were the eubank and watson (well, the 2nd one was).

yank v yank = world class
brit v brit = domestic class

yank v yank - anonymous event or undercard material
brit v brit - great event, top of bill

steve little v mike nunn - who cares?
eubank v benn - major international event (at least rematch was)

i would call arthur v foster jr a glorified domestic fight. benn v eubank, to me, is leagues above.