BoxRec

granberry wrote:

ThatOne wrote:[quote="wouter

Yes he sparred with the great Joe Louis but never turned pro because of a heart murmur.

You have to forgive Granberry's ignorance. Perhaps he's new to following the sport.

Eddie Futch was a news-media created fraud.

Futch never had a heart-murmur when it came to his disgusting self promotion of himself.

And the clueless news media 'covering' boxing lapped it up.

As do the members of the Religion on of Ali posting here.

Now that you disrespected Eddie Futch and Ken Norton can you please tell us why the opinions of Cus D'Amato, Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, Archie Moore, and Jose Torres are of no moment?

Counter-puncher wrote:

granberry wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

and you, oh knowledgeable one?

let's hear your record, pencil-neck

You would be surprised, Mr Poster on 'boxing' websites.

LOL

so you've never laced them up then?

No he hasn't and I'm starting to believe he's never seen a boxing match either, he just reads articles by Bert Sugar and pretends as if he were there.

Counter-puncher wrote:sheesh. i just noticed. not only did granberry talk to george benson. he did it 'more than once'. he's so intimite with benson he gets to calls him 'georgie'.

i therefore bow to his superior knowledge

the Religion of Granberry has another convert.

can i please be your shill, 'berry?

boxrec 'boxing expert' counterpuncher

doesn't have a clue who Georgie Benton is.

He can't even spell Benton's name right.

Stick to names you can spell right

like Ali, Eddie Futch, Cus D'Amato, Angelo Dundee, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Thomas Hauser

as you exhibit your deep knowledge of 'boxing,' counterpuncher.

LOL

I want to know why

Zora Folley
Archie Moore
Eddie Futch
Gil Clancy
Ken Norton
Jose Torres
Cus D'Amato


are to be disrespected because they said Ali was a great fighter.

I thought "everybody" liked and respected those men; especially Cus. I never heard a bad word about him other than he was overprotective of his fighters.

granberry- if you're a real fighter or manager why don't you give us your name so we can see your record or your fighter's record. What's the harm?

You crapped on every boxier, manager, or author who disagreed with you.

It will shut a lot of people up.

ThatOne wrote:granberry- if you're a real fighter or manager why don't you give us your name so we can see your record or your fighter's record. What's the harm?

You crapped on every boxier, manager, or author who disagreed with you.

It will shut a lot of people up.

It's better if we all stop feeding the troll. He's been at this for a while, and seems to keep hooking the same people.

BoxBuzz wrote:
Your not answering the question!!!

WHEN DID YOU TALK TO CUS or GIL?

You can't answer because YOU NEVER HAVE and YOU NEVER WILL!!

Clancy offered me a job traveling with Griffith as a sparring partner and said he would get me fights after I sparred with Griffith.

An old black sparring partner who was with them took me aside after windbag Clancy was gone and told me he had been suckered in by the same crap from Clancy, and that Clancy had only gotten him one fight in several years.

That was an old tired story with Clancy and other connected phonies of his ilk.

It is amazing that Griffith did as well as he did with clueless Clancy hanging on his back.

After Foreman ('trained' by Clancy) lost to Jimmy Young,

Foreman said ruefully, "I never should have boxed him."

That was a pointed remark at the clueless fight plan boxing 'expert' Clancy got him to follow.

Griffith was a great fighter in spite of Clancy.

Ask Clancy, who made his fortune and got his connections with boxing commentating only through his connection with Griffith

why Griffith sleeps today on a cot in a room in a slum area of New York.

Where is the wonderful Gilm Clancy now for his mealticket Griffith?
???????????????????????????????????????????????

The Great John L wrote:

ThatOne wrote:granberry- if you're a real fighter or manager why don't you give us your name so we can see your record or your fighter's record. What's the harm?

You crapped on every boxier, manager, or author who disagreed with you.

It will shut a lot of people up.

It's better if we all stop feeding the troll. He's been at this for a while, and seems to keep hooking the same people.

He makes it sound like Muhammad Ali was Solomon McTier.

Grimm wrote:

No he hasn't and I'm starting to believe he's never seen a boxing match either, he just reads articles by Bert Sugar and pretends as if he were there.

grim,

How did your attempt to trash Robert Snell's thread on Jim Corbett go over?

You posted the standard collins homosexual post to trash his thread.

You have a lot to offer, don't you grim (another collins alias?).

granberry wrote:

Grimm wrote:

No he hasn't and I'm starting to believe he's never seen a boxing match either, he just reads articles by Bert Sugar and pretends as if he were there.

grim,

How did your attempt to trash Robert Snell's thread on Jim Corbett go over?

You posted the standard collins homosexual post to trash his thread.

You have a lot to offer, don't you grim (another collins alias?).

I'm keeping a list of all the boxing people granberry has disrespected:

Gil Clancy is a "bad" guy

Ken Norton was a "ordinary" fighter

Eddie Futch was a charlatan.

Granberry, why should the obersrvations and opinions of

Zora Folley
Cus D'amato
Archie Moore
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Kevin Rooney
Bill Cayton

be discounted

ThatOne wrote: I thought "everybody" liked and respected those men; especially Cus. I never heard a bad word about him other than he was overprotective of his fighters.

Yes, I am sure Eddie Machen and Zora Folley just loved Cus D'Amato for depriving them of their rightful chance at the heavyweight title when they were in their primes.

D'Amato's pathetic peekaboo stance left a fighter wide open for a right hand straight down the middle
(Johannsen) and for body shots low and at the side (Liston).

Patterson was so gifted when he was younger that it didn't matter. He punched so fast (and hard) that his opponents never got a chance to get their bearings.

Willie Troy (no one here has a clue who Willie Troy is)

said after his fight with Patterson, "Too many hands."

If D'Amato had his way Patterson would never have fought Liston.

D'Amato did a criminal thing in not letting Patterson fight his top contenders--Folley and Machen.
It stunk up all of boxing, since the heavyweight title carries boxing.

D'Amato was a big self-promoter

and he was located right there in the center of the news media--in New York.

Remember-- don't you dare say a negative word about Eddie Futch or Cus D'Amato

because the were 'nice old men.'

And in the case of kindly, old, wonderful, self-promoting Eddie Futch,

you must understand that you are a racist if you do anything other than grovel for him and his heart murmur and his oldness and his 'kindliness' and

of course his wonderful, incredible, greatest of all time record as a 'boxer.'

ThatOne wrote:I'm keeping a list of all the boxing people granberry has disrespected:

Gil Clancy is a "bad" guy

Ken Norton was a "ordinary" fighter

Eddie Futch was a charlatan.

Granberry, why should the obersrvations and opinions of

Zora Folley
Cus D'amato
Archie Moore
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Kevin Rooney
Bill Cayton

be discounted

One,

you would put your time to better use keeping a list of the uncountable number of posts you make

groveling for The Religion of Ali and your exalted hero,

and his thrilling 'wins' over Sonny Liston, Leon Spinks, and of course, Ken Norton.

Yuor getting wasted here, Gran.

Call it quits?

granberry wrote:

ThatOne wrote:I'm keeping a list of all the boxing people granberry has disrespected:

Gil Clancy is a "bad" guy

Ken Norton was a "ordinary" fighter

Eddie Futch was a charlatan.

Granberry, why should the obersrvations and opinions of

Zora Folley
Cus D'amato
Archie Moore
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Kevin Rooney
Bill Cayton

be discounted

One,

you would put your time to better use keeping a list of the uncountable number of posts you make

groveling for The Religion of Ali and your exalted hero,

and his thrilling 'wins' over Sonny Liston, Leon Spinks, and of course, Ken Norton.

You didn't answer my question.

I WIN


THAT ONE BOMAYE

Granny-sing along


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E03mTh5_ ... re=related


How can you not like the guy?

ThatOne wrote:Blah, Blah, blah ....The fight was fixed....Blah, blah, blah....

Everything about Ali's subsequent history suggests he would have turned Old Man Liston inside out. Ali was bigger, stronger, faster, and didn't have a heroin habit.

Now boxrec boxing expert One

regurgitates Howard Cosell/Thomas Hauser crap.

It is well known that Liston was deathly afraid of needles.

A bad choice for a smear as a 'heroin' addict.

The One's belching out of this false crap shows how thoroughly the stench of Hauser, Cosell, incompetent drunken Bert Sugar and company has permeated the One.

What a putrid confection.

bengulnaci1 wrote:Yuor getting wasted here, Gran.

Call it quits?

Regurgitate some more of your warmed over Religion of Ali crap, bengul.

granberry wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:Yuor getting wasted here, Gran.

Call it quits?

Regurgitate some more of your warmed over Religion of Ali crap, bengul.

ROTFLMFAO

Are


Zora Folley
Cus D'amato
Archie Moore
Ken Norton
Eddie Futch
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Kevin Rooney
Bill Cayton


members of the Religion Of Ali?

ThatOne wrote:Are


Zora Folley
Cus D'amato
Archie Moore
Ken Norton
Eddie Futch
Floyd Patterson
Jose Torres
Kevin Rooney
Bill Cayton


members of the Religion Of Ali?

Patterson said Ali couldn't punch and did NOT have fast hands.
Patterson said repeatedly the Liston sham vs. Ali was a fake.

Henry Cooper said (a washed up) Floyd Patterson who knocked him out in 4 rounds had faster hands than Ali and hit harder than Ali.

(Ali never scored a knockdown against Cooper in two fights).

Zora Folley said Ali couldn't punch, in an interview just after their fight. And that he, Folley, was ten years past his best.

Eddie Futch said,

"I, Eddie Futch, am the greatest fighter of all time.

"Joe Louis used to beg me to tell him the secrets of my wonderfulness as a fighter [even though I never had a pro fight]. I am wonderful.

"And REMEMBER, I am old, and black--so don't you dare say a non-groveling word about me
or you will be a racist. Ha ha ha.

"Do you see any clueless newsmen around here I can put my arm around and tell how wonderful, kind, old, and black I am? Send them to me."


I talked with Bill Cayton for years. I never heard Cayton say a word in praise of Ali.

While Jimmy Jacobs was alive I talked with him endlessly about his films.

Jacobs and Cayton made the film showing what a farce the 2nd Liston-Ali fake was.

It had many clips interspersed showing what referees in the long history of boxing did when a fighter was knocked down--counting with their fingers inches from the downed fighter's face
and yelling the count at the top of their voice in the fighter's face.
They showed the long count Dempsey-Tunney fight and how the ref refused to start his count until Dempsey went to a neutral corner.

They contrasted that with the raw sewage of the Lewiston fake, where the so-called 'referee' never counted over Liston and where Ali never went to a neutral corner.

And where Ali was declared the winner by a 'knockout.'

Swallow your raw sewage, members of The Religion of Ali .

Unlike Granny I can provide CITATIONS for my arguments instead of just making shit up:


Citations -If you completed junior high school you would know that's a refernce to the original source

Zora Folley -"Muhammad Ali- His Life And Times-pg 167
Cus D'amato-
Archie Moore- "Muhammad Ali- His Life And Times"- pg 49
Ken Norton- http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-ne ... erview.php
Eddie Futch-http://coxscorner.tripod.com/ali.html
Floyd Patterson-"Muhammad Ali- His Life And Times"-pg 459
Jose Torres-"Muhammad Ali-His Life And Times"-pg.458
Kevin Rooney-"Muhammad Ali-His Life And Times"-pg 459
Bill Cayton-Muhammad Ali-His Life And Times"-pg459

Muhammad Ali was more than just a fighter he was a symbol of the 1960’s, a revolutionary figure who was a voice of civil rights, the anti-Vietnam war movement, and the Nation of Islam. Despite the political symbolism that surrounded his career, love him or hate him, there can be no denying that Muhammad Ali was a truly great fighter once the bell rang. He was three times heavyweight champion of the world (1964-1970, 1974-1978, 1978-1979) and dominated the better part of two decades of the heavyweight division. He made a total of 19 successful title defenses.

The Muhammad Ali of 60’s was the fastest heavyweight ever. In the May 5, 1969 Sports Illustrated, Ali’s jab was measured with an omegascope. Ali’s jab, it was found, could smash a balsa board 16.5 inches away in 19/100 of a second. It actually covered the distance in 4/100 of a second, which is the blink of an eye. Jimmy Jacobs, who owned the world’s largest collection of fight films, said that on film tests with a synchronizer Ali’s jab was faster than that of Sugar Ray Robinson. Jacobs contended that Ali was not only the fastest heavyweight, but also the fastest fighter he ever saw on film.
Marv Jenson, who managed Gene Fullmer, concurred saying, “Ali has the fastest hands on any heavyweight I have ever seen.”

Bob Foster, the world light-heavyweight champion agreed, saying, in an interview after their fight, “He has no business being as fast as he is. I never saw that right hand.”

Author John Durant described him as having “lightning fast hands and a pair of legs that moved around the ring like a ballet dancer. He would float just out of range with his hands dangling at his side as if to taunt his opponent.”

Ali made a lot of mistakes in the ring such as dropping his hands low, holding his right hand out too far when he jabbed so he could not block a jab in return, telegraphing his right uppercut by dropping his right hand, and completely neglecting body punching. However Ali, in his prime, was able to out-speed his mistakes. Eddie Futch commented, “Ali takes his mistakes, shows them to you, and then beats you with them.” Ali got away with his mistakes because of his astoundingly quick reflexes, speed of foot, and uncanny ability to gauge distance.

Ali danced gracefully across the ring, his lateral movement and fleetness of foot made him the master of ring center. Ali’s judge of distance was also phenomenal. He divided the ring into “safety zones” and “danger zones.” In a demonstration done in a boxing ring for Sports Illustrated, (See May 5, 1969 SI), with sparring partner Lee Carr, when Ali was in a “safety zone” he appeared to be in a position to be easily hit, especially with his hands dangling down at his side. That’s what Carr thought. He decided that a left jab would be long enough to reach him. Ali smugly held his ground and with a slight move of his head Carr’s jab fell two inches short. “I can move in on him,” said Carr, “but I can’t seem to get to him.”

Historian Don Cogswell wrote, (IBRO Journal # 81), “Muhammad Ali, in his first title reign, presented such a speed disparity between contestants as to appear supernatural. The flurry that dropped a befuddled Brian London in the third frame, the right that stopped an earnest Zora Folley in the 7th, presented by the right that immediately preceded it (seen by Angelo Dundee and a few others,) suggested that Ali was operating in another time zone.”

Ali refused induction into the Army in 1967 and went into forced exile losing three and a half of his best years as a fighter. When he returned his legs were not what they once were. Ali, fighting more flat-footed than before, revealed some never before tested traits such as heart, determination, and the ability to take a heavy punch.

In their March 8, 1971 classic “Fight of the Century” Ali faced Joe Frazier in Madison Square Garden for the right to be called “champion”. It was the first time two undefeated heavyweight champions ever fought for the title. In a vintage battle Joe Frazier fought the perfect fight pounding Ali’s body and flooring him in the final round to gain a clear decision victory. The left hook that dropped Ali would have finished most fighters, but Ali was up quickly and was fighting back when the round ended.

Ali came back winning 10 fights in a row before losing to Ken Norton, who broke his jaw, in winning a 12 round decision. Ali narrowly won the rematch. It seemed as though Ali was winding down as all great fighters do. Frazier lost the title and it appeared as though Ali was on the way out, but he was not done yet! He defeated Frazier by decision and earned a chance to regain his lost crown.

The defining fight of Ali’s career was his championship match against undefeated heavyweight destroyer George Foreman. Big George was 40-0 with 37 knockouts and had simply annihilated the two men (Frazier and Norton) that had given Ali his toughest fights. Ali was a 3-1 underdog going in against the new heavyweight champion and few gave him a chance to survive the thunderous fists of the man that one boxing magazine called, “the most powerful heavyweight champion ever.”

Ali surprised even his most ardent fans. In a brilliant strategic fight Ali sought to tire his man by fighting off the ropes, pulling back, evading and rolling with all of his opponent's hardest punches and then countering with quick jabs and right hand leads. Ali displayed some of his once famous speed; after Ali nailed George with several furious jabs he began talking to him, “Didn’t they tell you, sucker? Didn’t they tell you I am the fastest heavyweight that ever lived?”

Foreman punched himself out. In the eighth round Ali caught a visibly tiring Foreman chasing him off the ropes and knocked him out. George said years later, (Champions Forever video 1989), “He surprised me with this lightning speed that he wasn’t supposed to have at his age."

Muhammad Ali was back on top having reclaimed the title that was unjustly taken from him, he was the heavyweight champion of the world once again. Ali's popularity soared and he would make 10 successful title defenses in his second reign as champion, one of them a rubber match with Joe Frazier. Many analysts have called the third fight with Frazier the greatest heavyweight championship fight in history.

It was described as a drama in 3 acts by the Oct. 13, 1975 Sports Illustrated, 1) Ali, 2) Frazier, and 3) Ali. Muhammad pummeled his foe in the first five rounds. Ali buckled Joe’s knees two times in the first round. In the third Frazier was shaken twice as Ali hit him at will with his quick two-fisted attack. In the middle rounds Frazier began to work his way back into the fight with strong body punching. In the sixth round a pair of wicked left hooks had Ali in no mans land. Frazier kept coming and Ali grew weary. “Exhausted and contemplating quitting, Ali slumped on his stool at the end of the tenth round.” The eleventh round was no better for the champion. Writer Mark Kram reported, “Ali got trapped in Frazier’s corner and blow after blow bit at his melting face, and specks of spittle flew from his mouth." “Lawd have mercy!” Bundini shrieked.” Ali proved that he had the courage, determination, and will that make a great champion. Frazier’s left eye began to swell and his vision faded. By the thirteenth round Frazier could no longer see the punches coming. Ali was finding Frazier with long right hands and punishing him severely. Joe's corner was forced to stop the fight before the 15th round bell, as he could no longer defend himself.

Perhaps Frazier described Ali best, “Lawdy, Lawdy, I hit him with punches that would have brought down the walls of a city. He’s a great and mighty champion.”

Ali was not a heavy hitter but he beat some good ones including Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ron Lyle, and Earnie Shavers. For two decades of the heavyweight division there was not a significant heavyweight that he did not meet in the ring.

Muhammad Ali is rated as the # 1 heavyweight of all time by such authorities as Herbert Goldman, Nigel Collins, Steve Farhood, and Arthur Harris. Bert Sugar rates Ali at # 3. Cox's Corner considers Ali to be the # 2 heavyweight of all time.

Your hands cant hit
What your eyes can't see
Float like a butterfly
Sting like a bee
Muhammad, Muhammad Ali

Granberry- To paraphrase another poster-

If you were half the man Muhammad Ali was in the ring you might like yourself."

Doug Jones' left jab was twice as fast as Ali's ---and accurate.

It's right there on the film of the fight.

Jimmy Young's left jab was three times as fast as Ali's.

The One is the hardest working Ali parishioner currently working overtime on boxrec.

LOL