BoxRec

He was no Dutch Boy Gym. Undefeated, 38 title defenses. You can't find anyone to match that.

And I would say Chavez is much higher than the 99%. I know I'm just an ignorant child, but it's more like 99.9999999999999999999999%. Believe it or not, there has been a lot of Boxers.

saad,

alright bro, at least we can agree to disagree. you have a good one!

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He was no Dutch Boy Gym. Undefeated, 38 title defenses. You can't find anyone to match that.

And I would say Chavez is much higher than the 99%. I know I'm just an ignorant child, but it's more like 99.9999999999999999999999%. Believe it or not, there has been a lot of Boxers.

He's from Current Scene, cut him a break on history

I would consider Chavez a 'great fighter . . .all-time great? I'm not exactly sure what that means. On a PFP list I'm with Saad . . .he'd be in the 70s somewhere, which when you think about it is still pretty damn great.

Louis never beat great fighters? I would certainly consider Schmeling and Walcott great.

Anyway, picking up title belts and defenses from the 80s onwards means very little to me. As I said he beat several VERY good fighters but to me his performances vs Taylor, Whitaker and to a lesser extent Randall (as yes he was definitely past his prime there) to me demonstrate he's not on the upper level of lightweight-junior welter greats like an Ike Williams, Barney Ross, or Ortiz. That's my opinion.

all i've got to say is chavez sr. did it better, for longer than 99 pct. of all fighters did. i bet anybody would be hard pressed to fight ANY boxer in history to match what chavez did in his first 90 fights, by going 89-0-1, 23 successful title defenses, 27 successful title defenses overall (record), 3 time division champion, champion for nine plus years before losing his first bout etc...also, name me any other fighter in history with a better world title record of 31-4-2! name me one fighter who ever did this and i will shut my mouth. maybe to fans on this board chavez was overrated but certainly not to boxing historians who mostly have him rated from #17 to #25 P4P all-time!!! and name me one all-time great who didn't have his good share of "bums" like chavez did! even pacquiao, morales, barrera, marquez, ali, armstrong, louis, marchiano, dempsey etc...had their share of "bums" so i don't know why chavez keeps getting "crucified" for also having his share. one more thing and most of you will probably get "offended" but if chavez was an american citizen, he might have been U.S. president by now. american fans would have been all over his nuts but because he isn't, many americans will always find ways to disparage his accomplishments!

saad,

okay you disagree with me but tell me one fighter in history to have done more than chavez sr. did at his 90th fight!

I'm over it, I've named many fighters that accomplished more and you're not hearing it. Repeating yourself over and over doesn't make your opinion more valid.

saad,

of course you're over it! i keep spanking your ass with this topic! that's okay though, at least you've learned something worthwhile today!

You're embarrassing yourself kid. Did you forget your medication? If not, you should get some. Three posts ago you were finished and now you're spewing nonsense again. Maybe after you grow up, we can have a chat. For now, you should probably stick to Wrestling.

saad,

KID? you calling me a kid? lol...you're the one spewing absolute nonsense by calling chavez an overrated fighter!!! too bad everyone disagrees with you. tell you what, when you learn a little bit about boxing then you can come back to this thread and then we can have a little chat. you're absolutely making a mockery of yourself and frankly, i'm getting kind of embarrassed for you!

My bad, that was a very adult response. No wonder your daddy lets you stay up late and tells you bed time stories about Julio Cesar Chavez. I hope you don't think anyone agrees with you. But keep on trying little buckaroo, one of these days you will figure out how to converse with people.

If you're not a kid, than I'm frightened for society.

saad,

"little buckaroo"? lol...you're killing me dude. anyways, time to get my tuck-in from mama!

"If you're not a kid, than I'm frightened for society." - Saad

Pretty much my precise words on another thread. I presume it's a child, but I can't shake the uneasy feeling that, possibly, this guy is actually adult

What a moron.

It's pretty scary, like a psychotic Rain Man.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's pretty scary, like a psychotic Rain Man.

Yeah this guy is really a moron for rating Chavez as an atg, what an ignoramus. Now Holmes on the other hand, as per your list, is really the guy we should be talking about, his accomplishments and stellar opposition really trumps that of pretender Chavez doesn't it?

His overall demeanor is more moronic than his Chavez lust. But saying Chavez is the greatest fighter of the last 40 or 50 years is quite pathetic.

I never said Chavez wasn't great and Holmes absolutely is the more accomplished fighter.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:And another mad man chimes in. This thread is turning over quite a few rocks. Just a joke, please don't threaten to beat me up over the internet again.

I never said Chavez wasn't great and Holmes absolutely is the more accomplished fighter.

I don't think I ever threatened to beat you up, on or off the net, but I can certainly understand why you would think that I did. Given your general rudeness I bet many people have made such a threat, you probably just got me mixed up with someone else.

And of course Chavez was more accomplished than Holmes. Chavez also fought and beat stiffer competition, won more fights, won more titles, reigned for a longer period and was a much more popular fighter. Seems to me he bested Holmes in every department except when it came to money, old pear shaped Larry knew how to make a buck and Julio 'forgot' to pay his taxes.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:His overall demeanor is more moronic than his Chavez lust. But saying Chavez is the greatest fighter of the last 40 or 50 years is quite pathetic.

This I can argee with

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:And another mad man chimes in. This thread is turning over quite a few rocks. Just a joke, please don't threaten to beat me up over the internet again.

I never said Chavez wasn't great and Holmes absolutely is the more accomplished fighter.

I don't think I ever threatened to beat you up, on or off the net, but I can certainly understand why you would think that I did. Given your general rudeness I bet many people have made such a threat, you probably just got me mixed up with someone else.

And of course Chavez was more accomplished than Holmes. Chavez also fought and beat stiffer competition, won more fights, won more titles, reigned for a longer period and was a much more popular fighter. Seems to me he bested Holmes in every department except when it came to money, old pear shaped Larry knew how to make a buck and Julio 'forgot' to pay his taxes.

I mistook you for somebody else, my bad and I already edited it.

LMAO at more popular, that defines greatness? That's all I need to read.

Chavez made plenty of money, King wouldn't buy off judges for just anybody.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:And another mad man chimes in. This thread is turning over quite a few rocks. Just a joke, please don't threaten to beat me up over the internet again.

I never said Chavez wasn't great and Holmes absolutely is the more accomplished fighter.

I don't think I ever threatened to beat you up, on or off the net, but I can certainly understand why you would think that I did. Given your general rudeness I bet many people have made such a threat, you probably just got me mixed up with someone else.

And of course Chavez was more accomplished than Holmes. Chavez also fought and beat stiffer competition, won more fights, won more titles, reigned for a longer period and was a much more popular fighter. Seems to me he bested Holmes in every department except when it came to money, old pear shaped Larry knew how to make a buck and Julio 'forgot' to pay his taxes.

I mistook you for somebody else, my bad and I already edited it.

No problem

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: LMAO at more popular, that defines greatness? That's all I need to read.

But that is just the case, the insane popularity. I guess that is why you put him in this thread, that rabid following of his.
The fact that he had such a fanbase, many of which were hardly fight aficionados to put it mildly, should not detract nor add to his accomplishments in the ring.
If you go by his fanbase, sure he was overrated but if you ask a knowledgeable fight fan I think he would be accurately placed among the top 10 lightweights and hardly a candidate for Most Overrated Non-Heavyweight Of Alltime.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Chavez made plenty of money, King wouldn't buy off judges for just anybody.

But unlike Holmes he didn't exactly hold on to it

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote: I don't think I ever threatened to beat you up, on or off the net, but I can certainly understand why you would think that I did. Given your general rudeness I bet many people have made such a threat, you probably just got me mixed up with someone else.

And of course Chavez was more accomplished than Holmes. Chavez also fought and beat stiffer competition, won more fights, won more titles, reigned for a longer period and was a much more popular fighter. Seems to me he bested Holmes in every department except when it came to money, old pear shaped Larry knew how to make a buck and Julio 'forgot' to pay his taxes.

I mistook you for somebody else, my bad and I already edited it.

No problem

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: LMAO at more popular, that defines greatness? That's all I need to read.

But that is just the case, the insane popularity. I guess that is why you put him in this thread, that rabid following of his.
The fact that he had such a fanbase, many of which were hardly fight aficionados to put it mildly, should not detract nor add to his accomplishments in the ring.
If you go by his fanbase, sure he was overrated but if you ask a knowledgeable fight fan I think he would be accurately placed among the top 10 lightweights and hardly a candidate for Most Overrated Non-Heavyweight Of Alltime.

Top 10 Lightweights? He had a handful of fights there. No way he cracks the top 20 of that stacked division. His rabid fan base helps me hate him and may lead to my exaggerating. But knowledgeable fans or "historians" like Bert Sugar are who I am referring to. Even you saying he is a top 10 Lightweight, that's madness. He is a top 3 or 4 Jr Welterweight, that's the only division he rates highly in.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I mistook you for somebody else, my bad and I already edited it.

No problem

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: LMAO at more popular, that defines greatness? That's all I need to read.

But that is just the case, the insane popularity. I guess that is why you put him in this thread, that rabid following of his.
The fact that he had such a fanbase, many of which were hardly fight aficionados to put it mildly, should not detract nor add to his accomplishments in the ring.
If you go by his fanbase, sure he was overrated but if you ask a knowledgeable fight fan I think he would be accurately placed among the top 10 lightweights and hardly a candidate for Most Overrated Non-Heavyweight Of Alltime.

Top 10 Lightweights? He had a handful of fights there. No way he cracks the top 20 of that stacked division. His rabid fan base helps me hate him and may lead to my exaggerating. But knowledgeable fans or "historians" like Bert Sugar are who I am referring to. Even you saying he is a top 10 Lightweight, that's madness. He is a top 3 or 4 Jr Welterweight, that's the only division he rates highly in.

My mistake, I meant to say top 10 jr welterweight.