BoxRec

King Geedorah wrote:

Dioufy wrote:Of course.

But Ortiz isn't some kind of man-beast. Khan blew him away in the ams, and I feel Murray could break him down. I'm not going to apoligise for that. Also, tell me which man in the street is clamouring for Marquez. It's the same, near enough. But you can't sell that as a all-British slug-fest.

Not sure what you mean about Marquez?

King Geedorah wrote:

Dioufy wrote:Of course.

But Ortiz isn't some kind of man-beast. Khan blew him away in the ams, and I feel Murray could break him down. I'm not going to apoligise for that. Also, tell me which man in the street is clamouring for Marquez. It's the same, near enough. But you can't sell that as a all-British slug-fest.

Not sure what you mean about Marquez? Merely pointing out that when Marquez wins his fight he will vacate, or allow the WBO to create an interim title, and that this will leave the way open for Katsidis-Murray for the vacant/interim/regular title. Marquez isn't about to fight Murray, even if he wins and the WBO mandated the fight, the Mexican would find a way to take another fight and still keep his title. This is not a slur on Marquez, merely a statement about how f*cked up the sport is.

Bad enough when we had multiple titles, we now have numerous titles within a title and there is no real urgency for fighters to defend said title. Grab a belt, fight up in weight and your belt will be downsized to an interim one and the agency will collect a fee by hosting another 'championship' match. People always said that not knowing who the champions are would kill boxing, it survived that, just. Not knowing who the champions are even when we know who the champions are, that may be harder to overcome.

As for Ortiz. Sure, he is beatable but the problem with the offer is that it is not an offer that suggests GB want to build Murray's profile, seems a way of them getting matches for Ortiz and Khan without having to secure the services of Bradley or Alexander. It seems a completely loaded offer and to take it would be to jump into the arms of a suitor who doesn't really want you or what is best for you. Which would be a mistake in my opinion. What do you do when bringing through a beatable fighter? You stack the deck, and this is a classic case of that.

It is mooted for the undercard of Khan-Maidana. Now, GB may be many things but they surely won't be daft enough to go with anything less than a 20ft ring come the night. So you'd have an up in weight clash against a guy who has quit out, and will box accordingly, on a bill put together by people who's main goal is to ensure that Ortiz and Khan impress ahead of a fight that will probably take place in the US at some point.

Only upside is that a win over Ortiz could force a UK-based fight with Amir, but what could happen isn't always what does happen. The 'Murray needs to win a world title' argument in regards to the Khan fight is out there on-record so a win over Ortiz, if they cannot conjure up a 'world' title for it, would still not fulfil the criteria set and Murray would be hanging on in the hope that Amir requires him for a UK fight.

Dioufy wrote:. Also, tell me which man in the street is clamouring for Marquez. It's the same, near enough.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Dioufy wrote:. Also, tell me which man in the street is clamouring for Marquez. It's the same, near enough.

the man on the street may not be but as JMM is an established star of the sport having been on several PPV's and topping several proper HBO bills, not some pony Sky saturday nigth job with 100,000 viewers, you simply can't compare the two as TV attractions. JMM is a viable HBO/ppv commodity, Murray absolutely is nowhere near that.

Dioufy wrote:No one, and I mean no one, is getting what I'm saying. Murray is not known, not by the British public, nor the US public. Ever since he fought McAllister, his opponents have been inferior. There, I said it, McAllister is Murray's biggest and best win since he beat Meager. That's why I believe he should take a chance and take on Ortiz. He'll get on SKY PPV and on American TV as the chief-support. He may well lose, but then he comes back to 135lbs, beats some 'European challengers', then settles in for a world-title shot. If he wins, he's proved he can do it on the big stage. He'll be put in against the loser of Marquez/Katsidis, with Katsidis the most likely. Or he may be put in with the winner. Marquez might vacate, then it's a bill-topping fight for the WBO belt for Murray and the Kat. Not a bad reward for beating a vunerable fighter in his home-town - Maidana managed it, why can't Murray? And finally, you never know, fans could start asking for a Khan/Murray fight. Just imagine what doors it would open for Murray if he beat a very heartless fighter.

Or he could wait another 2/3 years for this elusive WBC title shot.

Glyn Leach wrote: For some fighters, physical advantages are crucial. Pavlik had them at middleweight, where he was huge for the weight, and Murray is a big lightweight. But take away that size advantage and a fighter can find himself in hot water and never fully recover. Yes, it would be great if Murray came out of the Ortiz fight with credit, but that's not guaranteed and he stands as much chance of taking a beating in my opinion. Personally, I think Murray would be best served by playing the long game and hanging in there for a title fight in his own division. But I do see where you are coming from Dioufy, honest.

Lenny wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote: For some fighters, physical advantages are crucial. Pavlik had them at middleweight, where he was huge for the weight, and Murray is a big lightweight. But take away that size advantage and a fighter can find himself in hot water and never fully recover. Yes, it would be great if Murray came out of the Ortiz fight with credit, but that's not guaranteed and he stands as much chance of taking a beating in my opinion. Personally, I think Murray would be best served by playing the long game and hanging in there for a title fight in his own division. But I do see where you are coming from Dioufy, honest.

See Ricky Hatton at welter for another example. I think Murray should stay at lightweight for as long as possible. His strength is one of his main strengths, I doubt he will find it as much of an asset at light welter.

Lenny wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote: For some fighters, physical advantages are crucial. Pavlik had them at middleweight, where he was huge for the weight, and Murray is a big lightweight. But take away that size advantage and a fighter can find himself in hot water and never fully recover. Yes, it would be great if Murray came out of the Ortiz fight with credit, but that's not guaranteed and he stands as much chance of taking a beating in my opinion. Personally, I think Murray would be best served by playing the long game and hanging in there for a title fight in his own division. But I do see where you are coming from Dioufy, honest.

See Ricky Hatton at welter for another example. I think Murray should stay at lightweight for as long as possible. His strength is one of his main strengths, I doubt he will find it as much of an asset at light welter.

stujones wrote:
I somewhat disagree on Mitchell - not that part where you say his "favours" did him no favours against Katisdis I completely agree there. What I disagree with is your analogy that Mitchell had it easy where as Murray hasn't?

Murray it should be noted hasn't beaten a defending champion in his career so far. He has the lonsdale belt outright by contesting in 3 VACANT British title fights (surely a record). Meager, Lawton and Thaxton were all for vacant titles. Buckland for the vacant EBU title.

Murray has fought some decent names - but then you cite the 2-2 opponent in a tune up for Gomez. What about Johannson (defending British champion), what about Prescott (world ranked) what about Estrada (former world title challenger)... I think Mitchell was as deserving as his title fight as Murray. Lee McCallister or Gary Buckland is probably Murray's best opponent (in terms of freshness and everything) - is that ideal prep for Marquez, is that a deserving opponent?

BOTH need to have bridging fights from domestic to world class.

Autobarn wrote:

Lenny wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote: For some fighters, physical advantages are crucial. Pavlik had them at middleweight, where he was huge for the weight, and Murray is a big lightweight. But take away that size advantage and a fighter can find himself in hot water and never fully recover. Yes, it would be great if Murray came out of the Ortiz fight with credit, but that's not guaranteed and he stands as much chance of taking a beating in my opinion. Personally, I think Murray would be best served by playing the long game and hanging in there for a title fight in his own division. But I do see where you are coming from Dioufy, honest.

See Ricky Hatton at welter for another example. I think Murray should stay at lightweight for as long as possible. His strength is one of his main strengths, I doubt he will find it as much of an asset at light welter.

i can see where you're coming from but i think murray's boxing skills are underrated. this is a well schooled, solid pro who gets stick for not being flashy and gets criticised more for his defense than ppl that are getting their heads snapped back consistently (i'm thinking arthur, mitchell and now cleverly).

let's not forget murray was a super featherweight as well.

i hope he gets a WBC elim. i hope antillon and brandon rios are not going to nab the WBC elim (hopefully IBF or something).

at the same time i hope his promoter MAKES IT HAPPEN. because a long wait is bad, and he could end up vs some horrible style matchup like ali funeka or one of arum's trickier stylists from the lightweight "who needs him" club.

just my opinion but i hope for murray vs some hard mexican bastard.

the champ he's targeting is apparently wanting to cash out vs barrera before moving up to light welter. WBC holder humberto soto, of course.