BoxRec

Glyn nails it. As usual.

Glyn Leach wrote:Plenty of opportunities for his trainers or the Area Council to have weighed him, yes. And FW should have been able to trust them. They should have done the right thing. But FW doesn't have a Liverpool office, the Board has representatives in that Area, and Sky were pushing for Bellew — the Polish guy was on standby from early yesterday, as some of you will be aware due to a PM from a fellow Boxrec poster, and FW was going to go with him. But Sky wanted Bellew and the pressure was on FW to put him in. And Sky hold the money and so the power.

Nobody is without blame here but it's unrealistic to knee-jerk blame FW for anything that goes wrong with something he's involved with. It shows a lack of understanding in the way boxing is run. There are a whole bunch of people involved in this fiasco, including Sky, the Board, Bomber and his trainers. But the tendency of some to just go 'Warren's fault' is palpable and those who take that line do themselves a disservice in choosing an easy answer, sometimes over and over again. There is an awful lot to be taken into account in any given situation in boxing and to understand it fully it's necessary to have an open mind. Nobody's right all the time, nobody's wrong all the time.

Good point and a good arguement, not in entire agreement this time but I can see your logic. However, I hope you at least agree that Warren saying he was unaware of the weight problem at the presser and trying to shift at least part of the blame (although admiting the buck stops with him) that at the very least was careless and at worst.... well its alot worst.

Was he weighed by the Area Council? Did they lie? Its not even a borderline case - its 7 pounds. Its been sort of stated he was 195 when he expressed the desire to get the fight.

So IMO either the Area Council weighed him and lied (so Warren could sue as the Area council is supposed to be proffesional and objective), the Area Council didn't weigh him (if true why not) or the Area Council weighed him and said the truth - 195? Now to shift 20 lbs in two days is dangerous and whoever suggested giving him more time needs to be seriously looking at themselves - could have put Bellew in serious trouble.

I also don't buy that much that Sky pressured to a great extent to get Bellew, why are the accepting the Pole now. Why all of a sudden is he worthy? Why not make the pay cut thread they did with Khan.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:FW is faaaar too long in the tooth to take people at their word.

The idea that he couldn't get someone he trusted to weigh the lad before all this sh1te is ludicrous to me.

And Tony has been in this game far too long to know he is going to get weighed at some point. This smells fishy too me.

stujones wrote:Good point and a good arguement, not in entire agreement this time but I can see your logic. However, I hope you at least agree that Warren saying he was unaware of the weight problem at the presser and trying to shift at least part of the blame (although admiting the buck stops with him) that at the very least was careless and at worst.... well its alot worst.

Was he weighed by the Area Council? Did they lie? Its not even a borderline case - its 7 pounds. Its been sort of stated he was 195 when he expressed the desire to get the fight.

I also don't buy that much that Sky pressured to a great extent to get Bellew, why are the accepting the Pole now. Why all of a sudden is he worthy? Why not make the pay cut thread they did with Khan.

I definitely would agree with that Stu. FW will have known better than most that Bomber was due to fight in six weeks time, on his show, and that it was unlikely that a big lad like Tony would have been that close to the weight that far out from a fight. I'm not sure where Tony was weighed, just when he was weighed, at 6.30, and that's the crux of this for me. The Board would have had to have given their guarded approval for him as a challenger before he set off for London that morning and for the good of the sport they should have weighed him before the press conference took place and saved everyone a lot of embarrassment.

Re Sky, they accepted the Pole to save the PPV and are not delighted with him as an opponent, I'm told. But why is this situation different to the Khan fight? Because it is Sky's money on the line here and they don't want to make a loss. If you remember, when Dave Coldwell won the purse bid for DeGale-Groves and subsequently was unable to stage it, for whatever reason, Sky got involved to the extent of asking FW to stage it on his show and guaranteeing Groves's (at least, I'm not sure about DeGale's) purse, albeit via Warren. Just a matter of profit and loss mate. Plus they have faith in the super middle fight as a PPV in it's own right — after all, all Sky's pre-fight publicity has been based on DeGale-Groves, it's as though that was always the main event even before Braehmer had bailed.

Its a bit of a soryy tale all round.

Tony Bellew deserves praise for trying to step in and give fans a fight we all want to see, he has a big set of balls for doing that and deserves respect.

However, the end result with the presser and his actions have tainted this slightly for me.

Open to the idea that I'm wrong and again you have to have respect him but he is part of a host of people who could have done things better here.

I genuinely hope he beats McKenzie and then gets the fight with Cleverly down the line, he's a proper fighter and I wish him well.

Wrists wrote:Its a bit of a soryy tale all round.

Completely. But hopefully we'll still get an enjoyable night's boxing from it, I'm certainly still looking forward to it — not as much as when Braehmer and then Bellew were Clev's opponents, I'll admit, but it should still be a good event. It's just a shame it's been tainted by all this bollocks.

Glyn Leach wrote:Plenty of opportunities for his trainers or the Area Council to have weighed him, yes. And FW should have been able to trust them. They should have done the right thing. But FW doesn't have a Liverpool office, the Board has representatives in that Area, and Sky were pushing for Bellew — the Polish guy was on standby from early yesterday, as some of you will be aware due to a PM from a fellow Boxrec poster, and FW was going to go with him. But Sky wanted Bellew and the pressure was on FW to put him in. And Sky hold the money and so the power.

Nobody is without blame here but it's unrealistic to knee-jerk blame FW for anything that goes wrong with something he's involved with. It shows a lack of understanding in the way boxing is run. There are a whole bunch of people involved in this fiasco, including Sky, the Board, Bomber and his trainers. But the tendency of some to just go 'Warren's fault' is palpable and those who take that line do themselves a disservice in choosing an easy answer, sometimes over and over again. There is an awful lot to be taken into account in any given situation in boxing and to understand it fully it's necessary to have an open mind. Nobody's right all the time, nobody's wrong all the time.

It's a typical knee jerk reaction from some to blame the Board for everything, or Sky. Have either of these done anything wrong in this fiasco? (Never mind the general PPV argument). I don't think so. If someone had turned round to Sky and said 'You can't have Bellew, he can't do the weight. You can have a press conference then the Board will end up nixing him - it'll be a farce', then I'm sure the broadcaster would have accepted. And who is it that should have been saying this?

I didn't believe that Bellew happened to be just over the fighting weight when he had a contest ages away and anyone who did is naive, to say the least - never mind what the lad himself was saying.

Bellew is at fault because, probably, he was kidding himself and trying everything he could to do that weight.

The Board are there to regulate the sport and no blame whatsoever can be laid at their door for this, in my opinion. Worst case scenario was the 'magic scales' could have been wheeled out, and Bellew approved.

What we can all agree on is that is has indeed been a load of bollocks all round.

Very true.

Still a decent nights boxing (not PPV worthy mind).

Clev fight
Degale v Groves
Gavin

Not bad but not PPV worthy.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote:Plenty of opportunities for his trainers or the Area Council to have weighed him, yes. And FW should have been able to trust them. They should have done the right thing. But FW doesn't have a Liverpool office, the Board has representatives in that Area, and Sky were pushing for Bellew — the Polish guy was on standby from early yesterday, as some of you will be aware due to a PM from a fellow Boxrec poster, and FW was going to go with him. But Sky wanted Bellew and the pressure was on FW to put him in. And Sky hold the money and so the power.

Nobody is without blame here but it's unrealistic to knee-jerk blame FW for anything that goes wrong with something he's involved with. It shows a lack of understanding in the way boxing is run. There are a whole bunch of people involved in this fiasco, including Sky, the Board, Bomber and his trainers. But the tendency of some to just go 'Warren's fault' is palpable and those who take that line do themselves a disservice in choosing an easy answer, sometimes over and over again. There is an awful lot to be taken into account in any given situation in boxing and to understand it fully it's necessary to have an open mind. Nobody's right all the time, nobody's wrong all the time.

It's a typical knee jerk reaction from some to blame the Board for everything, or Sky. Have either of these done anything wrong in this fiasco? (Never mind the general PPV argument). I don't think so. If someone had turned round to Sky and said 'You can't have Bellew, he can't do the weight. You can have a press conference then the Board will end up nixing him - it'll be a farce', then I'm sure the broadcaster would have accepted. And who is it that should have been saying this?

I didn't believe that Bellew happened to be just over the fighting weight when he had a contest ages away and anyone who did is naive, to say the least - never mind what the lad himself was saying.

Bellew is at fault because, probably, he was kidding himself and trying everything he could to do that weight.

The Board are there to regulate the sport and no blame whatsoever can be laid at their door for this, in my opinion. Worst case scenario was the 'magic scales' could have been wheeled out, and Bellew approved.

What we can all agree on is that is has indeed been a load of bollocks all round.

It was totally the Board's responsibility Ian, how can you suggest otherwise? What do you think regulation means? It was always going to be their decision whether this fight would happen at the end of the day, they are Britain's sanctioning body. It's impossible to exonerate them. They are the one party in all this with the power to say yes or no.

And Sky pushed for the fight, fact. Barney Francis knocked back the suggested substitutes and wanted Bellew. Warren obviously crumbled under this pressure, most promoters would have. Ring him up and ask him if he's happy about this. I did. It's part of getting a balanced view, which is what I believe I have in this situation. Who haven't I blamed in some way? I just haven't taken the lazy way out and dumped the whole lot at the door of everyone's favourite whipping boy, because unlike some I have no anti-Warren agenda. My only agenda is pro-boxing.

Bellew's stock went up in my book, fair enough his weight was off, but showing the passion to get the fight and to take it at such short notice, plus you could see how passionate he was about the fight at the press confrenece, So what if he swore, who cares it was good to watch and when iv come in work today 9/10 people are talkin about the press conference, people who havnt even got a clue who cleverly is,

P4P#1 wrote:Bellew's stock went up in my book, fair enough his weight was off, but showing the passion to get the fight and to take it at such short notice, plus you could see how passionate he was about the fight at the press confrenece, So what if he swore, who cares it was good to watch and when iv come in work today 9/10 people are talkin about the press conference, people who havnt even got a clue who cleverly is,

I genuinely don't think it was Bomber's intention, but he's made one hell of a case for a fight with Clev down the line and far more people will be interested in it as a result of yesterday.

Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

Bomber 1 wrote:Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

As long as you keep winning, you will get your shot down the line anyway. Ok, it would have been good to see you fight Cleverly on Saturday, but it wasn`t to be. You can`t lose that much weight in that short a time and be at your best, not if it went any distance. Keep winning and then take your chance when fully prepared. It makes better sense.

MachoMan09 wrote:

Bomber 1 wrote:Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

Don't get reeled in, Tony. Nobody with half a brain thinks you have done anything wrong over the last few days. Move on, concentrate on doing a more convincing job against Ovill than you did last time and developing your career from there. If you deserve it, your time will come.

yeah, don't worry Tony it'll come, mate

Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

eyup mate, don't think that many are having a go at ya pal, i think its just frustration (certainly in my case anyway) as i really wanted it to happen and paid out for it, and now it ain't happening.

good luck pal, i think we can all tell you wanted it to happen

Keep ya chin up and concentrate on moving forward, you can see how many people were behind you when we though it was on!!

Tony, we've got a pretty good idea of the type of bloke you are from speaking to you on here and we all know damn well that you would have busted your balls to make that weight and get the fight. There is absolutely no question of this. You are a proper fighter and we love and respect you for it. That said, you know the realities of the situation, you knew what test weight you would have to make, and it just wasn't going to happen for you, no matter how hard you tried. You were six weeks out from when you're scheduled to fight, you just weren't ready, no disgrace in that. Yes, I believe you could have done 175 at the real weigh in, but you'd have been half dead mate and that's not how I want to see you challenge for a world title. I want you to be at your very best when that day comes — and it will, keep the faith mate.

Bomber 1 wrote:Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

Tony I just want to say, while I am not happy with the situation I really do believe that you tried your best. My point has been that other people should have been able to have seen it was not looking good before the presser.

Obviously there will now be all kinds of rumours and stuff as to when you first weighed (unofficially) and peoples reaction to that. You might not be feeling so great now, and that might also be because of the weight loss but IMO I think the lose of 14 lbs in 24 hours, whilst shows impressive dedication, demonstrates you wouldn't have been at your best and its a wise decision in terms of potential health consequences.

I think people would be wrong to say you didn't try, one look at you in the press conference showed you were desperately trying to make the weight. Something Clev spotted straight away also. However, what has annoyed me the most, and I don't know how much you are to blame for this, is why did it go all the way to the presser and beyond before the weigh in. Even if you had made it, I think it would have been in the best interests long term to suggest you didn't take this fight and you couldn't have been at your best. Were the organisors unaware of your weight at the press conference? If so why? Why didn't they weigh you before hand? You had some time to make the weight and I can see why you were arguing, but looking at you and if they knew you were still 7 lbs over - they should be experienced to know its not going to happen. You looked dry.

And beside which....when we say world-title what we mean is, well what do we mean....erm, how can I put this. There are 4 different bodies who decide who is world champion. And two of them often have two world champions and occassionally, interim champions. So when we say world-title fight what we really mean is.....

A fight between two leading contenders with a shiny bauble signifying the winner.

Glyn Leach wrote:Tony, we've got a pretty good idea of the type of bloke you are from speaking to you on here and we all know damn well that you would have busted your balls to make that weight and get the fight. There is absolutely no question of this. You are a proper fighter and we love and respect you for it. That said, you know the realities of the situation, you knew what test weight you would have to make, and it just wasn't going to happen for you, no matter how hard you tried. You were six weeks out from when you're scheduled to fight, you just weren't ready, no disgrace in that. Yes, I believe you could have done 175 at the real weigh in, but you'd have been half dead mate and that's not how I want to see you challenge for a world title. I want you to be at your very best when that day comes — and it will, keep the faith mate.

I can see why Princess loves you, I'm developing a small man crush myself - top post.... I just want to echo that. Although with Tony only shifting an additional 1lb after 2 and 1/2 hours in the sauna, I don't think he would have made 175 at the weigh in proper.

Losing that much weight overnight and still have 7lb to lose is dangerous and I am glad you did not fight. This is not having a pop or a go I honestly mean that.

Bomber 1 wrote:Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

I think mate you should be philosophical here - I think it's a blessing in disguise that you couldn't make weight, there could have been serious repercussions, and I'm sure your family would rather have you healthy.

Cleverly would have had the most intensive training camp of his life, and you would have effectively been going in with one hand tied behind your back.

I think in the long run, it's worked out for the best.

If you're guilty of anything here, I think it is wishful thinking - it was incredibly unlikely, in fact, let's face it, impossible, that you were going to make weight - you wanted the fight so badly that you convinced yourself it could be done.

I'm a little surprised your team even brooked the notion, had you somehow made that weight, you would have been completely dead.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Bomber 1 wrote:Listen people i lost 14 pounds in 24hrs!! i tried my upmost and I still wanted more time to carry on!! Id have run that weigh in from here if I was allowed!! Do people not understand after I was 13st 1 I went in a sauna for 2 and a half hours and lost 1/2 a pound!! there was a lot of witnesses to that too!! I then went and tried to run too!! I tried to make something special happen for the sake of my family and future and it didnt come off!! I lost out on more than people could imagine!!

I think mate you should be philosophical here - I think it's a blessing in disguise that you couldn't make weight, there could have been serious repercussions, and I'm sure your family would rather have you healthy.

Cleverly would have had the most intensive training camp of his life, and you would have effectively been going in with one hand tied behind your back.

I think in the long run, it's worked out for the best.

+1

i actually thought the whole thing was scripted, with bellew being kept in reserve in case unreliable braehmer pulled out. just seemed so convenient, in many ways (and a perfect fight to go with degale-groves). obviously it wasn't a set up, with bellew unable to make the weight. a big light heavy who has the look of a cruiserweight.

right then. this keeps in with the recent history of welsh challengers to the WBO throne. the champion cannot, or will not, take the fight (calzaghe and maccarinelli's coronations). very unsatisfactory way to pass on the torch and it's bizarre the way it keeps on happening. maybe these guys should start shooting for different titles, or something.

a shame for cleverly. because braehmer and bellew were great fights. hopefully he performs in the most ruthless, efficient and inspired manner possible. maybe it'll even be a really good fight, because he doesn't go much for defence, the welshman. i just wonder when the next time will be that cleverly will face a top fighter, or a fighter we know of enough to pay PPV for.

Autobarn wrote:i actually thought the whole thing was scripted, with bellew being kept in reserve in case unreliable braehmer pulled out. just seemed so convenient, in many ways (and a perfect fight to go with degale-groves). obviously it wasn't a set up, with bellew unable to make the weight. a big light heavy who has the look of a cruiserweight.

right then. this keeps in with the recent history of welsh challengers to the WBO throne. the champion cannot, or will not, take the fight (calzaghe and maccarinelli's coronations). very unsatisfactory way to pass on the torch and it's bizarre the way it keeps on happening. maybe these guys should start shooting for different titles, or something.

a shame for cleverly. because braehmer and bellew were great fights. hopefully he performs in the most ruthless, efficient and inspired manner possible. maybe it'll even be a really good fight, because he doesn't go much for defence, the welshman. i just wonder when the next time will be that cleverly will face a top fighter, or a fighter we know of enough to pay PPV for.

Amazing to think that since the formation of multiple world champions the only two Welshmen to win one from a defending world champion are argueably the two least remembered - Gavin Rees and Robbie Reagan.

Robinson, Maccarinelli, Clev, Calzaghe and Barry Jones all won vacant title fights or awarded the belt.

forgot about steve robinson, vs john davison. a superb fight, by all accounts (saw a replay of it ages ago on bravo, caught the last few rds, and it looked good). nonetheless, in that case, davison had been the top contender, i think, and had won international titles at two weights, thrashing some tough thais & a korean. of all the british contenders of that time, perhaps it was fitting that davison - who actually faced decent itnernational opponents - would get a shot. robinson definitely was up against it.

what a shame that bellew couldn't make the weight. chris eubank obviously could make the weight, for calzaghe, dropping a weight for the fight (though crucially eubank had been training for a fight on that night).

but definitely, bizarre that this keeps happening. i would have prefered it if they'd just re-scheduled cleverly v braehmer.

obviously similar thing happened with scotland's alex arthur, when joan guzman couldn't fight, arthur getting upgraded to champ.

just shows you it's more to do with politics than fighting.