BoxRec

tonyevs wrote:

dbflex wrote:

tonyevs wrote:.... and still they pad out the BN with photos instead of .. boxing news

'Pad out' suggests they are not able to fill the space with text – that's not true. The balance between copy and imagery is a choice based on the superb photography they have access to among other things.

Yes - when I say `pad out` I am suggesting they are unable to fill the space with text.

If its fully intentional to have only half the paper with actual boxing news/boxing articles - then you have kinda made my mind up on cancelling my subscription.
I initially bought it to read about boxing. If you are correct. I am now being encouraged to look at photos instead (even if alot of them are good photos).

Shall cancel 1st thing tomorrow - and pick up a copy of this months BM to see if it covers what I`m looking for in a boxing publication.

The padding out seemed more obvious with the new design, it was the first thing I picked up on.

TBH I'm amazed that it comes out weekly it must be hard work!

the ams section should be 2 pages nothing more.

And i would find a new fighter every week to talk in depht about their greatest fight in more detail.

I have spoken to many 'boxing ' people over the last few months and I'm amazed at how many have stopped getting the BN . It would be interesting to know how the circulation is going . If its going up then the new team have got it right . If not then the owners don't need to go far to see why . It's maybe a 'age' thing ,but I just don't like all the modernisation .I'll tell you one thing ,if Claude Abrams brings out an alternative ,I'd swap over immediately .
All the comments about Matt Christie are accurate . He's trying too hard to carve out a niche for himself with a more unusual style of reporting but all he's done is produce nonsense .
I just hope that thigs get back to normal soon .
I suspect Claude knew what was coming and was pushed out because he wouldn't conform .
Come on Danny Flexen ,you've got the bottle to come on here and defend the magazine ,what about the circulation figures ?
If they're going up ,I'll hold my hands up and admit I'm just getting old .

dalcumly wrote:I have spoken to many 'boxing ' people over the last few months and I'm amazed at how many have stopped getting the BN . It would be interesting to know how the circulation is going . If its going up then the new team have got it right . If not then the owners don't need to go far to see why . It's maybe a 'age' thing ,but I just don't like all the modernisation .I'll tell you one thing ,if Claude Abrams brings out an alternative ,I'd swap over immediately .
All the comments about Matt Christie are accurate . He's trying too hard to carve out a niche for himself with a more unusual style of reporting but all he's done is produce nonsense .
I just hope that thigs get back to normal soon .
I suspect Claude knew what was coming and was pushed out because he wouldn't conform .
Come on Danny Flexen ,you've got the bottle to come on here and defend the magazine ,what about the circulation figures ?
If they're going up ,I'll hold my hands up and admit I'm just getting old .

Very few figures are going up in any magazines mate because of the net.
that said the mag exists enough to pay its staff and we should be gratefull for its existence. Both Tris & claude are always pretty spot on with their picks also.

But publishing is a bit of a graveyard these days and I find this horrible as the net is dulling down the masses.

It's a wiki wiki world!

Bottle has nothing to do with it - bit juvenile that. It's not my place to reveal BN's sales figures but suffice to say it is profitable and steady in a generally rocky marketplace

Danny , I take it from your response I've touched a raw nerve ! I was actually congratulating you for sticking your head above the parapet and coming on here to speak up for your colleagues , but you took the wrong end of the stick . Its probably the case that ,while profitable, the figures are going down and of course its easy to explain that away be claiming its a tough old market . Maybe , just maybe , the figures are going down due to the content and style not satisfying your loyal customers .
The magazine is now geared towards a much younger audience . I also notice that the swearing is starting to creep in eg f*** and very recently c*** ( as quoted from allegedly ) . We can all swear very easily but perhaps we don't want to see it in our regular boxing weekly . The numerous errors are also new , words missed out and wrong headings .
The Boxing News is first and foremost a reference journal for all boxing no matter where it happens . It still does this, albeit surrounded by utter garbage . Someone mentioned earlier about the reader wanting to know if some obscure boxer prefers an isle seat to a window position . This is an example of what I'm saying . That's the type of thing a teenage girl shouts out to her friends from her magazine .
Please give us back some sanity .
I know the BN can't please everybody but the childish nonsense is switching people off .
Leave all that to Fighting Fit if its needed to sell to a younger ( teenage ) audience .

dalcumly wrote:Danny , I take it from your response I've touched a raw nerve ! I was actually congratulating you for sticking your head above the parapet and coming on here to speak up for your colleagues , but you took the wrong end of the stick . Its probably the case that ,while profitable, the figures are going down and of course its easy to explain that away be claiming its a tough old market . Maybe , just maybe , the figures are going down due to the content and style not satisfying your loyal customers .
The magazine is now geared towards a much younger audience . I also notice that the swearing is starting to creep in eg f*** and very recently c*** ( as quoted from allegedly ) . We can all swear very easily but perhaps we don't want to see it in our regular boxing weekly . The numerous errors are also new , words missed out and wrong headings .
The Boxing News is first and foremost a reference journal for all boxing no matter where it happens . It still does this, albeit surrounded by utter garbage . Someone mentioned earlier about the reader wanting to know if some obscure boxer prefers an isle seat to a window position . This is an example of what I'm saying . That's the type of thing a teenage girl shouts out to her friends from her magazine .
Please give us back some sanity .
I know the BN can't please everybody but the childish nonsense is switching people off .
Leave all that to Fighting Fit if its needed to sell to a younger ( teenage ) audience .

Welcome to the future my good man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E_7q4hzWFc

dbflex wrote:

tonyevs wrote:.... and still they pad out the BN with photos instead of .. boxing news

'Pad out' suggests they are not able to fill the space with text – that's not true. The balance between copy and imagery is a choice based on the superb photography they have access to among other things.

that's a fair point but i would have liked to have read more about the tyson chisora undercard as it wasnt on tv. instead there were two huge photos and then a few lines on most of the fights.

dalcumly wrote:The Boxing News is first and foremost a reference journal for all boxing .

Boxing News is first and foremost a business.

dalcumly wrote:Danny , I take it from your response I've touched a raw nerve ! I was actually congratulating you for sticking your head above the parapet and coming on here to speak up for your colleagues , but you took the wrong end of the stick . Its probably the case that ,while profitable, the figures are going down and of course its easy to explain that away be claiming its a tough old market . Maybe , just maybe , the figures are going down due to the content and style not satisfying your loyal customers .
The magazine is now geared towards a much younger audience . I also notice that the swearing is starting to creep in eg f*** and very recently c*** ( as quoted from allegedly ) . We can all swear very easily but perhaps we don't want to see it in our regular boxing weekly . The numerous errors are also new , words missed out and wrong headings .
The Boxing News is first and foremost a reference journal for all boxing no matter where it happens . It still does this, albeit surrounded by utter garbage . Someone mentioned earlier about the reader wanting to know if some obscure boxer prefers an isle seat to a window position . This is an example of what I'm saying . That's the type of thing a teenage girl shouts out to her friends from her magazine .
Please give us back some sanity .
I know the BN can't please everybody but the childish nonsense is switching people off .

Leave all that to Fighting Fit if its needed to sell to a younger ( teenage ) audience .

No nerve touched just pointing out that not revealing sales figures has nothing to do with "ooh ur scared". To pick up on 3 of ur points: BM has far more swearing, only without the asterisks. That's not a criticism but a pertinent observation; error-wise you are right. I can only cite the recent under-staffing that will soon be rectified. Finally the suggestion that FF should carry the more casual content from BN is a little ill-informed - if you read FF you'll know what I mean. It's not exactly the FT but it's pretty technical and serious (for the sector) in most parts.

veriton wrote:

dbflex wrote:

tonyevs wrote:.... and still they pad out the BN with photos instead of .. boxing news

'Pad out' suggests they are not able to fill the space with text – that's not true. The balance between copy and imagery is a choice based on the superb photography they have access to among other things.

that's a fair point but i would have liked to have read more about the tyson chisora undercard as it wasnt on tv. instead there were two huge photos and then a few lines on most of the fights.

Thats my grumble. The adverts & amateur pages i can tollerate....just!

But when they have so many photos, which obviously cost them to use. They intentially choose photos overtext. Surely its cheaper to have text? The guy writing is being paid by BN - so it must come down to them being plain lazy.
Easier to buy a photo than actually type a longer report.
As previously said here. BN is a reference .... but with less text & more photos, its getting only good for seeing how a said boxer looked than actually performed.

And as for BM being padded out with photos like BN. I shall be checking this first.
But BM is monthly ... BN is weekly. So the money i'd save may sweeten the deal.

Deserter wrote:

bad mamma jamma wrote:thats a massive assumption danny, that a 12 year old from just over 2 decades ago differs massively from one nowadays.

I think Danny means in terms of media consumption habits, in which case he's completely correct.

Aye, this is true.

Contexts, circumstances, opportunities, etc, change...but the nature of kids, history shows, rarely changes 8)

MachoMan09 wrote:Any magazine that is turning a profit is doing something right. Improvements are always possible but you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

Spot on mate.

Jon Saxon wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:Any magazine that is turning a profit is doing something right. Improvements are always possible but you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

Spot on mate.

Are you a BN subscriber?
If so ..
For how many years?

I started getting the BN when it was still the boxing trade paper in 1990.
There were a few photos, black and white, which was just fine.
And each page had something to read on it.
Nowadays, it can be read in half hour tops.
I do like some of the changes Tris Dixon has brought in. And think they have very good writers.
But the style is now very lazy .... Why write when a fullpage photo can be used to pad the issue out, seems to be the mindset

i feel BN is slowly losing its way. And if a younger audience is being targeted with the dumbing down of filling the paper with photos .... Well it will only have itself to blame.

tonyevs wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:Any magazine that is turning a profit is doing something right. Improvements are always possible but you can't keep all of the people happy all of the time.

Spot on mate.

Are you a BN subscriber?
If so ..
For how many years?

I started getting the BN when it was still the boxing trade paper in 1990.
There were a few photos, black and white, which was just fine.
And each page had something to read on it.
Nowadays, it can be read in half hour tops.
I do like some of the changes Tris Dixon has brought in. And think they have very good writers.
But the style is now very lazy .... Why write when a fullpage photo can be used to pad the issue out, seems to be the mindset

i feel BN is slowly losing its way. And if a younger audience is being targeted with the dumbing down of filling the paper with photos .... Well it will only have itself to blame.

Bought it every week without fail since 87 mate, Subscribed for two or 3 years paid for my mates subscription for 2 years also but stopped subcribing because it never arrived on time (and talking abou getting it not only on the Saturday but on the following MONDAY) quite often after the previewed fights took place.

This used to drive me nuts!

Why do you ask anyway?

Jon Saxon wrote:

tonyevs wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Spot on mate.

Are you a BN subscriber?
If so ..
For how many years?

I started getting the BN when it was still the boxing trade paper in 1990.
There were a few photos, black and white, which was just fine.
And each page had something to read on it.
Nowadays, it can be read in half hour tops.
I do like some of the changes Tris Dixon has brought in. And think they have very good writers.
But the style is now very lazy .... Why write when a fullpage photo can be used to pad the issue out, seems to be the mindset

i feel BN is slowly losing its way. And if a younger audience is being targeted with the dumbing down of filling the paper with photos .... Well it will only have itself to blame.

Bought it every week without fail since 87 mate, Subscribed for two or 3 years paid for my mates subscription for 2 years also but stopped subcribing because it never arrived on time (and talking abou getting it not only on the Saturday but on the following MONDAY) quite often after the previewed fights took place.

This used to drive me nuts!

Why do you ask anyway?

Because it seems that everytime you ask somebody here, how long they been getting the BN, they always without fail - say 20yrs plus ..
Ask them the earliest copy they have in their possesion (that they can prove) .. it`ll be 20mths at best

tonyevs wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

tonyevs wrote:
Are you a BN subscriber?
If so ..
For how many years?

I started getting the BN when it was still the boxing trade paper in 1990.
There were a few photos, black and white, which was just fine.
And each page had something to read on it.
Nowadays, it can be read in half hour tops.
I do like some of the changes Tris Dixon has brought in. And think they have very good writers.
But the style is now very lazy .... Why write when a fullpage photo can be used to pad the issue out, seems to be the mindset

i feel BN is slowly losing its way. And if a younger audience is being targeted with the dumbing down of filling the paper with photos .... Well it will only have itself to blame.

Bought it every week without fail since 87 mate, Subscribed for two or 3 years paid for my mates subscription for 2 years also but stopped subcribing because it never arrived on time (and talking abou getting it not only on the Saturday but on the following MONDAY) quite often after the previewed fights took place.

This used to drive me nuts!

Why do you ask anyway?

Because it seems that everytime you ask somebody here, how long they been getting the BN, they always without fail - say 20yrs plus ..
Ask them the earliest copy they have in their possesion (that they can prove) .. it`ll be 20mths at best

Eh? who keeps last weeks news? maybe old geeks or nerd boys and the autistic/aspys but its kinda odd don't you think?

You can't take them to your grave so why keep them?

Jon Saxon wrote:
Eh? who keeps last weeks news? maybe old geeks or nerd boys and the autistic/aspys but its kinda odd don't you think?

You can't take them to your grave so why keep them?

Some people might need to refer to them, professionally - e.g. historians, writers, etc. (oh hang on, maybe 'old geeks and nerd boys' does cover this )

Jon Saxon wrote:

tonyevs wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Bought it every week without fail since 87 mate, Subscribed for two or 3 years paid for my mates subscription for 2 years also but stopped subcribing because it never arrived on time (and talking abou getting it not only on the Saturday but on the following MONDAY) quite often after the previewed fights took place.

This used to drive me nuts!

Why do you ask anyway?

Because it seems that everytime you ask somebody here, how long they been getting the BN, they always without fail - say 20yrs plus ..
Ask them the earliest copy they have in their possesion (that they can prove) .. it`ll be 20mths at best

Eh? who keeps last weeks news? maybe old geeks or nerd boys and the autistic/aspys but its kinda odd don't you think?

You can't take them to your grave so why keep them?

Yep - as I thought

A big part of keeping the old BN is to reference back on. This is why I grumble so much about the padding out with photos. How the guy looked in a photo isn`t nearly as useful as knowing how he performed in the fight.
Written words describing the fight, and events around the fight are what I`m interested in. These have more relevance in years to come if I choose to look back over a guys career.

Jon Saxon, you really are turning into the star of Boxrec ..

Funny this thread. Not funny haha, but funny ooh.

It seems its riddled with paradox and contradiction.

We want the publication to be forward thinking and progressive, as a tangible answer to those who believe boxing needs to modernise its image in light of the supposed growth of UFC/MMA in the UK, and yet any deviation from the established order of things is roundly flogged for besmirching the good name of boxing and insulting the intelligence of boxing fans.

Further, any attempt to attract younger fans, something the sport is universally recognised for being shoddy at because of its complicated infrastructure and regulation is dismissed as dumbing down.

I'd like to see the publication take up issues on the editorial front and really press the key figures; topical examples would be sanctioning bodies, others might be the Cook v Burns fight which BoxRec had the courage to press harder on. Something again, older readers associate with the Mullen days. Different times now of course, different needs and agendas, but it is a role none of the websites have the gravitas to undertake. Save perhaps for Hauser via SecondsOut.com

New layout is great, flows better for me but I've never understood why the opportunity for boxer profile pull-out poster has never been looked at? As a younger fan, they'd have been stuck on the wall in the way Stuart Pearce, Carrie Otis and Trevor Francis used to be.

And one last point, anyone who suggests those lads are lazy has failed to recognise the shortened week they now work to and effort required to output that mag on a weekly basis.

DavidPayne wrote:Funny this thread. Not funny haha, but funny ooh.

It seems its riddled with paradox and contradiction.

We want the publication to be forward thinking and progressive, as a tangible answer to those who believe boxing needs to modernise its image in light of the supposed growth of UFC/MMA in the UK, and yet any deviation from the established order of things is roundly flogged for besmirching the good name of boxing and insulting the intelligence of boxing fans.

Further, any attempt to attract younger fans, something the sport is universally recognised for being shoddy at because of its complicated infrastructure and regulation is dismissed as dumbing down.

I'd like to see the publication take up issues on the editorial front and really press the key figures; topical examples would be sanctioning bodies, others might be the Cook v Burns fight which BoxRec had the courage to press harder on. Something again, older readers associate with the Mullen days. Different times now of course, different needs and agendas, but it is a role none of the websites have the gravitas to undertake. Save perhaps for Hauser via SecondsOut.com

New layout is great, flows better for me but I've never understood why the opportunity for boxer profile pull-out poster has never been looked at? As a younger fan, they'd have been stuck on the wall in the way Stuart Pearce, Carrie Otis and Trevor Francis used to be.

And one last point, anyone who suggests those lads are lazy has failed to recognise the shortened week they now work to and effort required to output that mag on a weekly basis.

A pull out poster to take out and hang on your wall
I`m sure they will soon take this onboard..
When I 1st started getting the BN, I would take out the centre page ratings and put them on my wall to study ... how I regret that now. Lots of info then missing from the editions

And when did a week stop being 7days long?? I missed that one I guess

Boxing news should be boxing news not boxing photographs ..

i keep my mags, i still have old Boxing '88 mags with Holyfield on the front saying how he will burst Tyson's bubble, Frank Tate saying how he is unbeatable..
i love going thru my old mags and being able to reflect on years gone by, what happened to certain fighters, how their predictions of their careers turned out in reality..thats not being geeky IMO, its just being a mad crazy fan of the greatest sport on earth.

looking at old BN mages from the 90's, where the premise was to inform and educate boxing fans, and the focus was on pleasing the ardent boxing fan, today's version is a lot weaker

bad mamma jamma wrote:i keep my mags, i still have old Boxing '88 mags with Holyfield on the front saying how he will burst Tyson's bubble, Frank Tate saying how he is unbeatable..
i love going thru my old mags and being able to reflect on years gone by, what happened to certain fighters, how their predictions of their careers turned out in reality..thats not being geeky IMO, its just being a mad crazy fan of the greatest sport on earth.

looking at old BN mages from the 90's, where the premise was to inform and educate boxing fans, and the focus was on pleasing the ardent boxing fan, today's version is a lot weaker

I used to keep mine and totally regret getting rid of them all. I kept some of the more important issues which covered the very big fights but I eventually got rid of them too. I just didn't have the space anymore.
Mind you I did get the Ring, Boxing News, KO, Boxing Monthly, Boxing Illustrated...pretty much every boxing mag there was to buy. These along with magazines/papers of another couple of sports I follow, I'd need a house the size of Buckingham Palace to keep them all!

The first boxing magazine I got was in 1987, the Ring with Michael Olajide on the front!

milpool wrote:

bad mamma jamma wrote:i keep my mags, i still have old Boxing '88 mags with Holyfield on the front saying how he will burst Tyson's bubble, Frank Tate saying how he is unbeatable..
i love going thru my old mags and being able to reflect on years gone by, what happened to certain fighters, how their predictions of their careers turned out in reality..thats not being geeky IMO, its just being a mad crazy fan of the greatest sport on earth.

looking at old BN mages from the 90's, where the premise was to inform and educate boxing fans, and the focus was on pleasing the ardent boxing fan, today's version is a lot weaker

I used to keep mine and totally regret getting rid of them all. I kept some of the more important issues which covered the very big fights but I eventually got rid of them too. I just didn't have the space anymore.
Mind you I did get the Ring, Boxing News, KO, Boxing Monthly, Boxing Illustrated...pretty much every boxing mag there was to buy. These along with magazines/papers of another couple of sports I follow, I'd need a house the size of Buckingham Palace to keep them all!

The first boxing magazine I got was in 1987, the Ring with Michael Olajide on the front!

u know what i remember that one, i remember taking it to school and someone commented on his jeri-curls..the wet look hair. there was something special about reading a fight report in September for a fight that happended in May

i used to love the pull out posters of the fighters...does anyone out there remember the Boxing Monthly massive pull out poster for the Tyson - Spinks fights..i still have that somewhere stored away..

tonyevs wrote:Nowadays, it can be read in half hour tops.
I do like some of the changes Tris Dixon has brought in. And think they have very good writers.
But the style is now very lazy .... Why write when a fullpage photo can be used to pad the issue out, seems to be the mindset.

I haven't kept my old copies of BN, but from memory while the ratio of text to pictures was different, the pagination used to be lower, so I wouldn't be that surprised if it was broadly similar in terms of overall word count in reality. I actually think the publication has improved under Tris's stewardship.
The one area I think they definitely continually miss a trick on is more depth on the fight reports - two-liners saying boxer x beat boxer y don't add any value or insight, while I'd like to see more of an effort to secure exclusive post-fight quotes from either the participants, their camps or respected neutral observer.
As David also says, the continuing failure to tackle controversial issues in the sport damages credibility.