BoxRec

Giancarlo wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Joe Frazier whipped Ali's ass every bit as brutally as Schmeling beat Joe.

Fight of the Century was a lot more competitive than Schmeling - Louis (1).

X2

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

scallum wrote:This is no contest it is without doubt Ali. Speed , heart , chin , charisma and brilliant ring smarts allows Ali to defeat any heavy in history of the sport on his best day

He couldn't beat Joe Frazier on Joe's best day. No doubt about that.

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement

scallum wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

scallum wrote:This is no contest it is without doubt Ali. Speed , heart , chin , charisma and brilliant ring smarts allows Ali to defeat any heavy in history of the sport on his best day

He couldn't beat Joe Frazier on Joe's best day. No doubt about that.

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement

Me too.

marcianofan wrote:I'd still like to hear if you actually disagree with me that Conn and Charles both trumped Joe's handspeed while fighting him, or that Ali's handspeed was clearly superior. If you do, I will do my best to be more patient and measured in my opposition to your obviously incorrect observations than you were with respect to my less than fully-considered ones from earlier.

So if I argued that Ali was slow footed and supported my argument by refering to the Holmes fight that would sit perfectly with you? You made an argument about Louis' handspeed that I have never seen anyone make and supported it by refering to a shot version of Louis, way to go.

scallum wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

scallum wrote:This is no contest it is without doubt Ali. Speed , heart , chin , charisma and brilliant ring smarts allows Ali to defeat any heavy in history of the sport on his best day

He couldn't beat Joe Frazier on Joe's best day. No doubt about that.

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement

Of course you would, Ali was totally shot by '71 and didn't he actually win FOTC?

hhaehre wrote:

marcianofan wrote:I'd still like to hear if you actually disagree with me that Conn and Charles both trumped Joe's handspeed while fighting him, or that Ali's handspeed was clearly superior. If you do, I will do my best to be more patient and measured in my opposition to your obviously incorrect observations than you were with respect to my less than fully-considered ones from earlier.

So if I argued that Ali was slow footed and supported my argument by refering to the Holmes fight that would sit perfectly with you? You made an argument about Louis' handspeed that I have never seen anyone make and supported it by refering to a shot version of Louis, way to go.

No shit, right?

Spinks showed faster hands than Ali when they fought. Its meaningless.

hhaehre wrote:

marcianofan wrote:I'd still like to hear if you actually disagree with me that Conn and Charles both trumped Joe's handspeed while fighting him, or that Ali's handspeed was clearly superior. If you do, I will do my best to be more patient and measured in my opposition to your obviously incorrect observations than you were with respect to my less than fully-considered ones from earlier.

So if I argued that Ali was slow footed and supported my argument by refering to the Holmes fight that would sit perfectly with you? You made an argument about Louis' handspeed that I have never seen anyone make and supported it by refering to a shot version of Louis, way to go.

Was Louis shot in 1941 when he fought Conn, too? If so, he had quite a career for a shot fighter thereafter...

Another great example, using one of the fastest-handed LHWs in history's handspeed to discredit Louis'.

Louis had some of the fastest hands of any Heavy in history. I mean, really.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Another great example, using one of the fastest-handed LHWs in history's handspeed to discredit Louis'.

Louis had some of the fastest hands of any Heavy in history. I mean, really.

I guess it is maybe a tad too high a bar to set for the term "exceptional" if only the likely fastest full-sized heavyweight champion ever in Ali and a bunch of former light heavyweights are the only ones I can put ahead of him. I guess I can't really disagree that among guys who were at least borderline 200 pounders, Louis stacks up well against anyone besides Ali, and I guess that does make him pretty exceptional upon further review.

marcianofan wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Another great example, using one of the fastest-handed LHWs in history's handspeed to discredit Louis'.

Louis had some of the fastest hands of any Heavy in history. I mean, really.

I guess it is maybe a tad too high a bar to set for the term "exceptional" if only the likely fastest full-sized heavyweight champion ever in Ali and a bunch of former light heavyweights are the only ones I can put ahead of him. I guess I can't really disagree that among guys who were at least borderline 200 pounders, Louis stacks up well against anyone besides Ali, and I guess that does make him pretty exceptional upon further review.

He also stacks up well against Ali, at least if we are talking 4-5 punch combos.

The difference isnt that stark. Ali usually threw flashy shots, while Louis ALWAYS threw with intent.