BoxRec

OR....they really saw what they said they saw. And I will give my statement a big "margin of error" aspect...lol.

I can not argue against a truly solid point that you make....money can, has, and forever will, warp many of the rules of physics as well as on occasion, profoundly distort the time space continuum.

By the way....Norton's "formula" for that last round was a typical Ali ritual correct? Do little until the end of a round and then attempt to get something that may impress the judges done. Ali "mixed it up" and did not follow true to form that round. I have to wonder if this helped him somehow confuse those who had been told "don't fall for that trick".

Like I say.....if you can find me a better bologna peddler than Ali, I want his name here and now.

I didnt ask for your Ali-Norton III card, it was Ali-Young.

Of course, you are unable to do so, because you know as well as I do you cant find eight rounds Ali won. Youd be hard-pressed to find eight minutes he won.

Time to hide behind the judges cards again, mate

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I didnt ask for your Ali-Norton III card, it was Ali-Young.

Of course, you are unable to do so, because you know as well as I do you cant find eight rounds Ali won. Youd be hard-pressed to find eight minutes he won.

Time to hide behind the judges cards again, mate

Well.....they do seem to remain stable and consistent to this day.

As does the footage.

HELL no.

Goodnight, still waiting which 8 rounds that Norton won convincingly in the 3rd fight.

2
3
5
6
8
10
12
13
14

Thats nine, but keep the change. Norton doesnt need it in a bout he won 9-5-1.

You're surely not going to tell me Ali clearly won eight rounds in this bout, are you?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:2
You're surely not going to tell me Ali clearly won eight rounds in this bout, are you?

Ah but you forget the man danced, he DANCED goddammit!!
Any round Ali dances in he wins, a rule is a rule.

The dancing rule is important, and should not be flagarantly belittled.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:2
3
5
6
8
10
12
13
14

Thats nine, but keep the change. Norton doesnt need it in a bout he won 9-5-1.

You're surely not going to tell me Ali clearly won eight rounds in this bout, are you?

Wow. round 10 was not even close? I thought Ali won it.
Rounds 3 and 8 were not even close? I scored them even.
12, 13 and 14 were not close? I thought they were but gave them to Norton. However you could make a case for them being even or going to Ali.
I know you hate Ali but come on.

I do agree that if you give every remotely close round to Norton, he wins.
I don't think Ali clearly won 8 rounds. Only 5 rounds (1,7,9,11 and 15) were clear Ali rounds.
On the other hand, Norton only won 3 rounds clearly.

Of the 7 close rounds, I gave Norton 3, scored 3 even, and gave one to Ali. On this forum that means, giving Ali one out of 7 close rounds makes my scoring is biased towards Ali in some peoples eyes.
The was an inordinate number of close rounds in this fight. I seldom score even one round even.


I do agree that if you give every remotely close round to Norton, you could come with a 10-5 scorecard or 9-5-1. And if you gave Ali every single close round, he wins it easily.

I have no problem with someone saying that Norton won, Ali won or that it was a draw. However, no one kicked anyone ass in this fight. It was fairly boring, closely contested fight almost all of the way.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:2
3
5
6
8
10
12
13
14

Thats nine, but keep the change. Norton doesnt need it in a bout he won 9-5-1.

You're surely not going to tell me Ali clearly won eight rounds in this bout, are you?

Wow. round 10 was not even close? I thought Ali won it.
Rounds 3 and 8 were not even close? I scored them even.
12, 13 and 14 were not close? I thought they were but gave them to Norton. However you could make a case for them being even or going to Ali.
I know you hate Ali but come on.

I do agree that if you give every remotely close round to Norton, he wins.
I don't think Ali clearly won 8 rounds. Only 5 rounds (1,7,9,11 and 15) were clear Ali rounds.
On the other hand, Norton only won 3 rounds clearly.

Of the 7 close rounds, I gave Norton 3, scored 3 even, and gave one to Ali. On this forum that means, giving Ali one out of 7 close rounds makes my scoring is biased towards Ali in some peoples eyes.
The was an inordinate number of close rounds in this fight. I seldom score even one round even.


I do agree that if you give every remotely close round to Norton, you could come with a 10-5 scorecard or 9-5-1. And if you gave Ali every single close round, he wins it easily.

I have no problem with someone saying that Norton won, Ali won or that it was a draw. However, no one kicked anyone ass in this fight. It was fairly boring, closely contested fight almost all of the way.

"I know you hate Ali, but come on."

Whenever someone tosses around CHEAP remarks like this, their argument gets weakened tremendously, imo.

Yancey....I know you love Frazier...but come on.....

BoxBuzz wrote:Yancey....I know you love Frazier...but come on.....

The point I'm making really has nothing to do with Ali or Frazier.

I just think for someone to accuse someone else of hating just because they have a differing viewpoint is a cheap way to go about things.

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Yancey....I know you love Frazier...but come on.....

The point I'm making really has nothing to do with Ali or Frazier.

I just think for someone to accuse someone else of hating just because they have a differing viewpoint is a cheap way to go about things.

I agree the statement was a clumsy one....and in addition I thought I needed to rib you a bit.....just to stay in practice.

Haven't watched the Ali vs Kenny Norton fights for some time now.But I certainly got the impression Norton was hard done by, and probably unlucky not to win two of the three.

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Yancey....I know you love Frazier...but come on.....

The point I'm making really has nothing to do with Ali or Frazier.

I just think for someone to accuse someone else of hating just because they have a differing viewpoint is a cheap way to go about things.

It stood out to me, too.

Lord knows if I accused Alp of loving Ali, it wouldnt be the world's most outrageous claim.

Alp, I guess Ali and I will just have to agree to disagree with you. Ali always actually struck me as kinda fond of himself, but he scored for Norton. Interesting.

I didn't think saying that Goodnight hates Ali is it was a cheap way of stating things. Goonight has made no bones about it on numerous occasions. If you don't like that statement, fine. God knows I have heard much worse for being an Ali fan. Is not "Lord knows if I accused Alp of loving Ali, it wouldnt be the world's most outrageous claim." a "cheap" thing to say?
If someone is a fan of someone that you don't like, you have to go into the "he loves him" crap?

Saying that Ali thought he lost doesn't mean much. Sometimes people say things they don't really mean; especially in the heat of the moment. Even if he meant it, doesn't mean he is right.

At the end of the day, you should just watch the fight and score it round by round as fairly as you can. Take away the 5 rounds that Ali won convincingly, and the score is 9-0-1 for Norton. Considering that so many (7) of the rounds were close; I find that very biased scoring.

Am I biased in my scoring? Maybe, but I don't think so. I scored the 7 close rounds three for Norton, three even and only one for Ali.

At the very least even if you score it 9-5-1 or 10-5, if you are truthful to yourself you have to admit that you are scoing some close rounds for Norton; and that it was competitive fight. It was not an ass kicking by any stretch of the imagination.

Ambling Alp wrote: At the end of the day, you should just watch the fight and score it round by round as fairly as you can. Take away the 5 rounds that Ali won convincingly, and the score is 9-0-1 for Norton. Considering that so many (7) of the rounds were close; I find that very biased scoring.

That's all good IF there were 7 close rounds. Problem is I didn't see 7 close rounds. I think what it boils down to is how to score Ali. I will gladly admit that I'm no big fan of the way Ali fought in the mid to late 70's, too much smoke and mirrors for me. A minute of dancing and flicking the jab a bit does not win many rounds on my card.

Sometimes, you have to repeat yourself until it sinks in D

Alp, you throw that hatred tag around too readily. I wont say Im an Ali fan, but never have I made, "no bones," about hating him. Thats just creative license on your part --- I am not being scolding, but making a point. You recently asserted in a PM that I, "hate Leonard," which I find an odd example of your bandying around labels.

Finally, I didnt accuse you of loving Ali --- It said, "if," I made that claim. Although your recent remark Louis has no case whatsoever to be ranked above Ali historically is a pretty romantic notion, IMO.

As for the fight, what can I say. Ali & I will have to disagree with you :)

Please, you have ripped Ali over and over. (Not that you are the only one.) At least be honest. Was hate too strong? I can go with "instense dislike".
I have no problem saying who I like or don't; feel free to ask. As for the fight itself, I don't mind you saying you thought Norton won. That is is fair enough. I do mind you saying that it was an ass kicking. It was not.

hhaehre wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote: At the end of the day, you should just watch the fight and score it round by round as fairly as you can. Take away the 5 rounds that Ali won convincingly, and the score is 9-0-1 for Norton. Considering that so many (7) of the rounds were close; I find that very biased scoring.

That's all good IF there were 7 close rounds. Problem is I didn't see 7 close rounds. I think what it boils down to is how to score Ali. I will gladly admit that I'm no big fan of the way Ali fought in the mid to late 70's, too much smoke and mirrors for me. A minute of dancing and flicking the jab a bit does not win many rounds on my card.

I thought that there were 7 close rounds. Obviously you didn't. If not how many, 6, 5? You only need 3 (to go along with the 5 rounds that ali won convincingly) to get to 8 and make a decent argument that ali won the fight.
To say that norton got robbed, you have to come up with 8 rounds that norton won convincingly. There is no way he won that many.

I agree that when Ali got older he was no longer a great fighter. (I would say from 1976 on.) Yes, in many rounds all he did was flick jabs. This is what happened in many rounds in the 3rd Norton fight. However, you also have to look at what the opponent is doing. It's not like Norton was landing big shots round after round. There were many rounds where very little happened. Sometimes all you have to do is land a few jabs to win a round.

I think Norton won the first and the last.

3 fights and NO clear winner. Norton certainly did NOT dominate. He simply ran a close race 3 times. He seemed to excel in "running close races" without entering the winners circle. I guess he really only got the benefit of the doubt when he faced Young. Another fella who was good at keeping up with the thoroughbreds.

The referee seemed to think that Ali won the third fight. From what I heard...he had a pretty good view, and was known by many to be an exceptionally fair minded official. Maybe that means something to others with a propensity for fair minded thinking. Maybe he saw, and experienced something that the cameras don't tell us. On the other hand, the majority viewpoint seems to be that people were just mesmerized, and intoxicated with Ali's Svengali nature. I'm sure that must have been it.

Norton said that hitting Ali was like trying to beat on iron.

Does the camera really tell us all we need to know? Who you gonna believe? Me and Arthur, or your lyin' eyes? lol.

BoxBuzz wrote:3 fights and NO clear winner. Norton certainly did NOT dominate. He simply ran a close race 3 times. He seemed to excel in "running close races" without entering the winners circle. I guess he really only got the benefit of the doubt when he faced Young. Another fella who was good at keeping up with the thoroughbreds.

The referee seemed to think that Ali won the third fight. From what I heard...he had a pretty good view, and was known by many to be an exceptionally fair minded official. Maybe that means something to others with a propensity for fair minded thinking. Maybe he saw, and experienced something that the cameras don't tell us. On the other hand, the majority viewpoint seems to be that people were just mesmerized, and intoxicated with Ali's Svengali nature. I'm sure that must have been it.

Norton said that hitting Ali was like trying to beat on iron.

Does the camera really tell us all we need to know? Who you gonna believe? Me and Arthur, or your lyin' eyes? lol.

I knew youd strike comedy gold eventually.