BoxRec

stujones wrote:
Glyn, I am playing Devil's advocate...

Glyn Leach wrote:I can't go with this 'but there are so many worse things in boxing to worry about' 'argument'. Maybe there are, but not one of them could do the sport as much instant and irreparable damage as one soft celebrity drawing the general public into our world and getting seriously (by which I mean seriously) hurt.

Imagine that - Flintoff gets McClellan'd. God forbid that or anything similar should happen, but imagine the huge and TOTALLY UNNECESSARY damage that would be done to the sport on the back of such a horrific instance. Think about it and really effing imagine it. You want to compare that to boxing has too many sanctioning bodies? Dillian Whyte drank a dodgy tinny? Jesus effing Christ, get out more.

Fact is, a fighter could be fatally injured in a British ring and it would barely raise an eyebrow these days; the press would be suitably outraged for a few days and then move on. That would not be the case should some celebrity dabbler suffer a similar fate. We'd never hear the last of it and all the positive PR the sport got through the Olympics earlier this year would be flushed down the drain.

Please, don't make comments to the effect that 'but it could happen to anyone'. Of course it could, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that someone who can't fight a lick (but hey, he's got great BMI and can do loads of situps) is more at risk than the average competitor.

I find the comparison of Flintoff to Curtis Woodhouse ridiculous and insulting. Woodhouse was an active athlete from another sport who wanted a serious career in boxing, Flintoff is a retired athlete from another sport indulging a whim - odds on we'll never see him again after this.

I have absolutely nothing against Flintoff, who seems like an OK fella. But I find it incredibly short sighted that any boxing types could aid and abet such a potentially damaging daydream. I have massive respect for Barry McGuigan but he's disappointed me here. And as for the Board licensing it, yeah, a Cardiff license really should be regarded more highly than one from Luxembourg - nice work Charlie you rocket scientist.

Will I watch it? Of course I effing will, but only to check that Flintoff walks away from the ring unassisted afterwards and in the hope that he takes enough stick to discourage fellow fame hungry B-listers from giving that boxing thing a go - enough stick but no more, because the risk of further damage just doesn't bear thinking about. I'll watch it alright, but I won't be worrying about why so and so isn't a mandatory contender for such and such as I do.

greenyox3 wrote:The way I see it, if the bloke wants to box, who is anyone to tell him he can't. No one has to watch it.

By all accounts the guy is putting in the work, and I'm pretty sure he's fully aware that boxing involves being punched in the face.

If he meets all the BBBofC criteria, then I don't see the argument against giving him the licence.

I hope he gets the respect he deserves after his fight, whatever the outcome. It takes balls to step through the ropes.

Glyn Leach wrote:Apologies gents, letting off steam there. Thing really makes me angry, maybe more than it should.

Stu, of course I wouldn't worry as much if it was AN Other. The whole issue is Flintoff's celebrity. Nobody cares about AN Other, he doesn't attract media attention. That's why I mentioned how disinterested the media would be if he got hurt. That would not be the case if it were a celeb.

FR, any punch can do the damage, doesn't need to be landed by Tyson in a battle of the bangers. Not going down the any heavyweight can KO any heavyweight road here, no need. Absolutely any punch could do it, from anyone. And it could be the first or the 50th landed, it doesn't matter. If it's going to happen it happens. Flintoff is not used to taking punches, but that isn't the issue either. The issue is that boxing is dangerous full stop. People get hurt. Why risk letting a celebrity dabbler get hurt and damaging the sport? What does the sport stand to gain from it? Irresponsible licensing IMO, very disappointing.

Stu/FR, you're right about my assuming FF is doing this on a whim. Possibly he will be a heavyweight staple for years to come and in 10 years time we will be looking back on this thread and laughing. But if I were to bet...

Anyways, apologies again, just read and heard so much bollocks about this over the last few days that I finally cracked.

greenyox3 wrote:The way I see it, if the bloke wants to box, who is anyone to tell him he can't. No one has to watch it.

By all accounts the guy is putting in the work, and I'm pretty sure he's fully aware that boxing involves being punched in the face.

If he meets all the BBBofC criteria, then I don't see the argument against giving him the licence.

I hope he gets the respect he deserves after his fight, whatever the outcome. It takes balls to step through the ropes.

Hagler2002 wrote:Some of the people on the roads today shouldn't be given driving licenses but they are.

In my opinion a far more dangerous topic to get your knickers in a twist about than Flintoff boxing.

sharpei_louis wrote:The Cracknell example is a bit puzzling cause isn't the other guy a cricketer who can obviously box a bit?

stujones wrote:However, I think its wrong to claim Flintoff is doing this for very different reasons without assessing it....we can look at Curtis' career in hindsight now and say how well he has done. When he first turned pro though, before his first bout people must have, and possibly should have, been questioning his motives and motivations.

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:However, I think its wrong to claim Flintoff is doing this for very different reasons without assessing it....we can look at Curtis' career in hindsight now and say how well he has done. When he first turned pro though, before his first bout people must have, and possibly should have, been questioning his motives and motivations.

Stu, this isn't in any way a contradiction to anything you've said, but just thought you and others on this thread may find it interesting that my mate may have been responsible! He took part in white collar boxing here in Dubai and happens to be a cricket nut who got friendly with Flintoff when he was living here (would have been around three years ago at a guess). Flintoff expressed an interest in the boxing sessions so my friend took him down to the 'KO Gym' in Dubai Marina, which is run by a Kiwi guy called Zack. Apparently Flintoff was absolutely blowing out of his arse in the first couple of sessions, but my mate said you could then start to recognise the signs of a pro sportsman in terms of the competitive instinct kicking in etc. I might be seeing him tonight so will ask for more detail, but I always got the impression that his interest tailed off and that he didn't actually spar down there, but it could have been that it was simply close to the time he moved back to the UK and that those initial sessions actually lit the spark... will elaborate more if I get any info, but thought it was a nice little anecdote to share!

JLP wrote:

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:However, I think its wrong to claim Flintoff is doing this for very different reasons without assessing it....we can look at Curtis' career in hindsight now and say how well he has done. When he first turned pro though, before his first bout people must have, and possibly should have, been questioning his motives and motivations.

Stu, this isn't in any way a contradiction to anything you've said, but just thought you and others on this thread may find it interesting that my mate may have been responsible! He took part in white collar boxing here in Dubai and happens to be a cricket nut who got friendly with Flintoff when he was living here (would have been around three years ago at a guess). Flintoff expressed an interest in the boxing sessions so my friend took him down to the 'KO Gym' in Dubai Marina, which is run by a Kiwi guy called Zack. Apparently Flintoff was absolutely blowing out of his arse in the first couple of sessions, but my mate said you could then start to recognise the signs of a pro sportsman in terms of the competitive instinct kicking in etc. I might be seeing him tonight so will ask for more detail, but I always got the impression that his interest tailed off and that he didn't actually spar down there, but it could have been that it was simply close to the time he moved back to the UK and that those initial sessions actually lit the spark... will elaborate more if I get any info, but thought it was a nice little anecdote to share!

Flintoff was doing the odd session at Ricky Hattons's gym four or five years back, too, and I'm fairly sure he didn't spar then either. I think that was his first exposure to boxing training and, like in your example, it was more of a dabble than anything else. He didn't do any boxing/martial arts as a kid.

Glyn Leach wrote:I can't go with this 'but there are so many worse things in boxing to worry about' 'argument'. Maybe there are, but not one of them could do the sport as much instant and irreparable damage as one soft celebrity drawing the general public into our world and getting seriously (by which I mean seriously) hurt.

Imagine that - Flintoff gets McClellan'd. God forbid that or anything similar should happen, but imagine the huge and TOTALLY UNNECESSARY damage that would be done to the sport on the back of such a horrific instance. Think about it and really effing imagine it. You want to compare that to boxing has too many sanctioning bodies? Dillian Whyte drank a dodgy tinny? Jesus effing Christ, get out more.

Fact is, a fighter could be fatally injured in a British ring and it would barely raise an eyebrow these days; the press would be suitably outraged for a few days and then move on. That would not be the case should some celebrity dabbler suffer a similar fate. We'd never hear the last of it and all the positive PR the sport got through the Olympics earlier this year would be flushed down the drain.

Please, don't make comments to the effect that 'but it could happen to anyone'. Of course it could, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that someone who can't fight a lick (but hey, he's got great BMI and can do loads of situps) is more at risk than the average competitor.

I find the comparison of Flintoff to Curtis Woodhouse ridiculous and insulting. Woodhouse was an active athlete from another sport who wanted a serious career in boxing, Flintoff is a retired athlete from another sport indulging a whim - odds on we'll never see him again after this.

I have absolutely nothing against Flintoff, who seems like an OK fella. But I find it incredibly short sighted that any boxing types could aid and abet such a potentially damaging daydream. I have massive respect for Barry McGuigan but he's disappointed me here. And as for the Board licensing it, yeah, a Cardiff license really should be regarded more highly than one from Luxembourg - nice work Charlie you rocket scientist.

Will I watch it? Of course I effing will, but only to check that Flintoff walks away from the ring unassisted afterwards and in the hope that he takes enough stick to discourage fellow fame hungry B-listers from giving that boxing thing a go - enough stick but no more, because the risk of further damage just doesn't bear thinking about. I'll watch it alright, but I won't be worrying about why so and so isn't a mandatory contender for such and such as I do.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Glyn,

What make Freddie any more or less likely to get 'McClellan'd' than any other fighters?

McClellan, Watson, Deuk-Koo Kim and a lot of others were involved in long brutal fights. I can't remember a 4 rounder having the same effect.

Glyn Leach wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Glyn,

What make Freddie any more or less likely to get 'McClellan'd' than any other fighters?

McClellan, Watson, Deuk-Koo Kim and a lot of others were involved in long brutal fights. I can't remember a 4 rounder having the same effect.

He's no more or less likely. The point is he isn't a boxer, he's a celeb having a dabble. If it happens to a man whose livelihood depends on it, fine - so to speak. But he's someone who appears to be doing it for other reasons and who could drop the sport in a shitload of trouble if he gets hurt. That's my point; potential damage to the sport. Why risk it for reality TV culture?

Chambers2 wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote:I can't go with this 'but there are so many worse things in boxing to worry about' 'argument'. Maybe there are, but not one of them could do the sport as much instant and irreparable damage as one soft celebrity drawing the general public into our world and getting seriously (by which I mean seriously) hurt.

Imagine that - Flintoff gets McClellan'd. God forbid that or anything similar should happen, but imagine the huge and TOTALLY UNNECESSARY damage that would be done to the sport on the back of such a horrific instance. Think about it and really effing imagine it. You want to compare that to boxing has too many sanctioning bodies? Dillian Whyte drank a dodgy tinny? Jesus effing Christ, get out more.

Fact is, a fighter could be fatally injured in a British ring and it would barely raise an eyebrow these days; the press would be suitably outraged for a few days and then move on. That would not be the case should some celebrity dabbler suffer a similar fate. We'd never hear the last of it and all the positive PR the sport got through the Olympics earlier this year would be flushed down the drain.

Please, don't make comments to the effect that 'but it could happen to anyone'. Of course it could, but it doesn't take a genius to work out that someone who can't fight a lick (but hey, he's got great BMI and can do loads of situps) is more at risk than the average competitor.

I find the comparison of Flintoff to Curtis Woodhouse ridiculous and insulting. Woodhouse was an active athlete from another sport who wanted a serious career in boxing, Flintoff is a retired athlete from another sport indulging a whim - odds on we'll never see him again after this.

I have absolutely nothing against Flintoff, who seems like an OK fella. But I find it incredibly short sighted that any boxing types could aid and abet such a potentially damaging daydream. I have massive respect for Barry McGuigan but he's disappointed me here. And as for the Board licensing it, yeah, a Cardiff license really should be regarded more highly than one from Luxembourg - nice work Charlie you rocket scientist.

Will I watch it? Of course I effing will, but only to check that Flintoff walks away from the ring unassisted afterwards and in the hope that he takes enough stick to discourage fellow fame hungry B-listers from giving that boxing thing a go - enough stick but no more, because the risk of further damage just doesn't bear thinking about. I'll watch it alright, but I won't be worrying about why so and so isn't a mandatory contender for such and such as I do.

You're such a drama queen Glyn!! What an over reaction to someone wanting a pro fight that is

You say he "Can't fight a lick", seen him spar much Glyn?

He's obviously gonna be matched carefully (1st fight especially), if the BBBC have seen him in action and say he's fit to fight as a pro, then he's fit to fight.

Obviously if Flintoff gets "McClellan'd" then it'll be bad for boxing, but lets face it it's a 1 in a million chance. The McGuigans and the referee will surely be over-cautious if anything, no way they're gonna let him go into a live and death battle in his first fight

COME ON FREDDIE!!!

Chambers2 wrote:Should the BBBC have one set of rules for celebs and one for the man on the street?

Glyn Leach wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:Should the BBBC have one set of rules for celebs and one for the man on the street?

100% YES. Joe Public can do the sport no harm but a celeb can do massive damage.

Glyn Leach wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Glyn,

What make Freddie any more or less likely to get 'McClellan'd' than any other fighters?

McClellan, Watson, Deuk-Koo Kim and a lot of others were involved in long brutal fights. I can't remember a 4 rounder having the same effect.

He's no more or less likely. The point is he isn't a boxer, he's a celeb having a dabble. If it happens to a man whose livelihood depends on it, fine - so to speak. But he's someone who appears to be doing it for other reasons and who could drop the sport in a shitload of trouble if he gets hurt. That's my point; potential damage to the sport. Why risk it for reality TV culture?