BoxRec

Deserter wrote:

mrpedigree wrote:my mate fought at knuckle ups last show in weston super mare and two or three fights broke out.

Sadly I know that's true as some of the guys responsible were from my home town, Bridgwater. The MMA coach of the club in Bridgwater was disgusted by it - as always, wasn't the fighters themselves, just muppets who thought they were hard men after a few beers.

Our table was right by the women that was fighting , them girls got stuck in to them men on another table no messing ...bing bang

How is Henry Warton getting on mrpedigree? Hope he's ok and it all got sorted out nice.

Cain commented on Tyson's challenge.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/story/_/id/8 ... tyson-fury

..."I didn't know who he was until this," Velasquez told ESPNChicago.com. "I think he's using my name to gain publicity, which he has done, everybody is bringing it up."...

..."I'm not a boxer," he said. "I'm a mixed martial artist, and if he wants to fight, he can go into the UFC and work his way up like everybody else does. Nothing is given to you in this world.

"To me, it's like don't talk about it, go ahead and do it. That's all I have to say about that."...

palooka wrote:How is Henry Warton getting on mrpedigree? Hope he's ok and it all got sorted out nice.

By all accounts he's made a full recovery,hes just opened one of the best boxing gym i have eva seen up there in york.
I get talking to Henry and his mate Ron Hopley a lot on facebook ,to real gents if ever i did meet them a real credit to boxing:)
That Jon Buster Keeton is right good laugh to ,next big dinner do i am gonna try getting to one and have a beer or two with em.

Am glad he's up and about. A lad I know used to know Buster Keeton and says he's a good fellow.

liamlion wrote:

mrpedigree wrote: I disagree ,if your in street fight with more than one opponent your better off staying standing standing(this favours a puncher) ,the minute you go on that floor you give the man/men watching a better chance kicking you in the head .

Like said earlier I have done BJJ for three years and the ground is the last place i would want to go with more than one opponent to take care of .
Even if they was both two idiots ,you might end up on the ground with one of them and any fool can kick you in the head.

Yeah, agreed. But then I think I alluded to the same issue in my last post.

Correct me if im wrong, but you could use Ju-Jitsu in the form of a choke or arm lock without having the need to go to the ground.

And yes punching can be particularly effective in a street brawl, as can kicking (albeit the latter is less common than the former). In vale tudo or an organised no-holds barred fight however the limits of a puncher will often be brutally exposed. For example boxers tend to plant their feet more and are therefore more susceptible to taking leg strikes, affecting their own mobility, stability and punch power.

In addition, there's more risk of a puncher being knocked out himself attempting to deliver his strike than for example a kick boxing who's delivering leg strikes. Range is a relevant factor.

I've often wondered about this. Sparring and fighting with chokes, the other guy will tap out. In the street, you don't want to let him go do you? He can't tap. So you have to choke him almost to the point of unconsciousness or unconscious. Sounds like you're going to get done for attempted murder or murder with this one. Anybody got any experience with this one? Just interested.

With regards to locks and chokes against multiple attackers, I once trained with John Anderson and Matty Evans, Geoff Thompson's mentor and protege respectively. Matty told a story about how he took on a group of kids causing trouble out the front of his house and how he got one of them in a standing rear naked choke and told the others to back off otherwise he'd bite the guys ear off. They backed off.

clopixolacuphase wrote:

liamlion wrote:

mrpedigree wrote: I disagree ,if your in street fight with more than one opponent your better off staying standing standing(this favours a puncher) ,the minute you go on that floor you give the man/men watching a better chance kicking you in the head .

Like said earlier I have done BJJ for three years and the ground is the last place i would want to go with more than one opponent to take care of .
Even if they was both two idiots ,you might end up on the ground with one of them and any fool can kick you in the head.

Yeah, agreed. But then I think I alluded to the same issue in my last post.

Correct me if im wrong, but you could use Ju-Jitsu in the form of a choke or arm lock without having the need to go to the ground.

And yes punching can be particularly effective in a street brawl, as can kicking (albeit the latter is less common than the former). In vale tudo or an organised no-holds barred fight however the limits of a puncher will often be brutally exposed. For example boxers tend to plant their feet more and are therefore more susceptible to taking leg strikes, affecting their own mobility, stability and punch power.

In addition, there's more risk of a puncher being knocked out himself attempting to deliver his strike than for example a kick boxing who's delivering leg strikes. Range is a relevant factor.

I've often wondered about this. Sparring and fighting with chokes, the other guy will tap out. In the street, you don't want to let him go do you? He can't tap. So you have to choke him almost to the point of unconsciousness or unconscious. Sounds like you're going to get done for attempted murder or murder with this one. Anybody got any experience with this one? Just interested.

With regards to locks and chokes against multiple attackers, I once trained with John Anderson and Matty Evans, Geoff Thompson's mentor and protege respectively. Matty told a story about how he took on a group of kids causing trouble out the front of his house and how he got one of them in a standing rear naked choke and told the others to back off otherwise he'd bite the guys ear off. They backed off.

I think with grappling, no matter how skilled u are, size and strength always play a massive part. where as with striking there is always the chance u could hit the magic button. A well respected combatives instructor called Mick Coup put it well, he said "its why soldiers are given bullets, and not sent out to do battle with nets.."

as for the previous posters comment on range, im not sure its AS relevent in the street, think its more a sports concept. its just lost so quickly. like when Martial Artists talk about range and entry techniques, in a real encounter, blink once and see how quickly your foe takes care of that for you.

These discussions are always tricky when people talk of "street fights", when really a street "assault" is much more likely and in that case there are so many scenerios possible (attacked from the side/behind, is he armed and if so what with? a gun/bat/knife? R there multiple assailants, are u in a crowded pub/deserted carpark....etc u could go on all day) that no "art" is gona prepare you properly. In fact, the possibility of being lucky enough to have one unarmed person approach you from the front stating their chosen terms of combat are very remote in this day and age. I think the most important "tool" u can have in these situations is bottle and the will to act. Its people that freeze that end up in serious trouble.

U only have to look at skilled boxers that have been on the end of serious assaults to see that combative sports alone arent adequate prep (Darren Barker, Michael Gomez, Jason Booth, Eamon Magee, Trever Berbick, Mitch Green, Vernon Forrest, Ricky Hatton.... again you could go on all day, to varying degrees their skills went out the window when out of context). Look at any press conference brawl and see how untidy they are and how they barely resemble a boxing match at all(Lewis vs Rahman, Lewis vs Tyson, haye vs chisora, bentt vs hide, Holmes vs Berbick, vargas vs mayora, MAB vs Morales to name a few)

stevieb_8006 wrote:In fact, the possibility of being lucky enough to have one unarmed person approach you from the front stating their chosen terms of combat are very remote in this day and age. I think the most important "tool" u can have in these situations is bottle and the will to act. Its people that freeze that end up in serious trouble.

Nail. Head.

clopixolacuphase wrote:

liamlion wrote:

mrpedigree wrote: I disagree ,if your in street fight with more than one opponent your better off staying standing standing(this favours a puncher) ,the minute you go on that floor you give the man/men watching a better chance kicking you in the head .

Like said earlier I have done BJJ for three years and the ground is the last place i would want to go with more than one opponent to take care of .
Even if they was both two idiots ,you might end up on the ground with one of them and any fool can kick you in the head.

Yeah, agreed. But then I think I alluded to the same issue in my last post.

Correct me if im wrong, but you could use Ju-Jitsu in the form of a choke or arm lock without having the need to go to the ground.

And yes punching can be particularly effective in a street brawl, as can kicking (albeit the latter is less common than the former). In vale tudo or an organised no-holds barred fight however the limits of a puncher will often be brutally exposed. For example boxers tend to plant their feet more and are therefore more susceptible to taking leg strikes, affecting their own mobility, stability and punch power.

In addition, there's more risk of a puncher being knocked out himself attempting to deliver his strike than for example a kick boxing who's delivering leg strikes. Range is a relevant factor.

I've often wondered about this. Sparring and fighting with chokes, the other guy will tap out. In the street, you don't want to let him go do you? He can't tap. So you have to choke him almost to the point of unconsciousness or unconscious. Sounds like you're going to get done for attempted murder or murder with this one. Anybody got any experience with this one? Just interested.
.

Nah mate what happens is when you hold a choke on and they dont tap they fall unconscious for a short while but wake back up a few minutes later but very groggy ..i have seen this happen a couple of three times grappling at different dojos when guys egos get involved and they dont wanna a tap they are usually all right after a while tho

Depends whether its a blood choke or an air choke.

On a blood choke u tend to expel blood from parts of ur body and there's a greater chance if shitting/pissing your pants.

With air chokes there's a greater chance of convulsing.

Poncey wrote:Depends whether its a blood choke or an air choke.

On a blood choke u tend to expel blood from parts of ur body and there's a greater chance if shitting/pissing your pants.

With air chokes there's a greater chance of convulsing.

Nasty

I watched a couple of the linked fights, as well as the previous bits of MMA I've watched, and a couple of things occurred to me. Well, the first didn't really occur; I was watching Toney's fight, and I thought a) Toney is a tough SOB, but b), why does anyone watch this? A bloke sits on Toney's head, and they wing ineffectual punches from that position til he chokes Toney unconscious. A genuine test of fighting? Yes. Any fun? Absolutely bloody not. Then I watched Imamu Mayfield fail to throw a single punch, or even step into striking range, in his bout. Dull as old arse. So yeah, I was reminded that MMA is really not fun to watch (which is not intended to disrespect it as a very tough sport).

Then something else occurred to me, while watching the Bob Sapp fight that was linked from the Tyson Fury article. That fight was quite entertaining, in a freak show sort of way, but the stand-up sections reminded me of times I've watched video of MMA's "top strikers" fighting. Having watched some of them, and come to the conclusion that despite being "top strikers" they can't box a lick, I wondered whether in fact these guys are equally as shit on the floor? I have no idea, because I don't know what to look for, but if their ground skills are equivalent to their standup skills, we could be watching people who just suck at everything.

SamWise72 wrote:I have no idea, because I don't know what to look for, but if their ground skills are equivalent to their standup skills, we could be watching people who just suck at everything.

You said it yourself, you don't know what to look for. If you did, you'd understand their standup skills require a different skill-set to a boxer's so you can't do a like-for-like comparison - if they stood in a traditional boxing stance, for example, they'd be vulnerable to the takedown every time, open to leg kicks etc.

Sure, but you don't think a reasonable jab would be a useful tool? There's an awful lot of winging haymakers.

My tuppence worth, it is like asking would Man Utd beat Harlequins Both Ball games played with multiple players. As for which technique is best in a street fight? i have done Doorman for a decade and i have found that your mouth is the most effective in a fight, then you feet (as in walking away) then a left hook and straight right.

SamWise72 wrote:I watched a couple of the linked fights, as well as the previous bits of MMA I've watched, and a couple of things occurred to me. Well, the first didn't really occur; I was watching Toney's fight, and I thought a) Toney is a tough SOB, but b), why does anyone watch this? A bloke sits on Toney's head, and they wing ineffectual punches from that position til he chokes Toney unconscious. A genuine test of fighting? Yes. Any fun? Absolutely bloody not. Then I watched Imamu Mayfield fail to throw a single punch, or even step into striking range, in his bout. Dull as old arse. So yeah, I was reminded that MMA is really not fun to watch (which is not intended to disrespect it as a very tough sport).

Then something else occurred to me, while watching the Bob Sapp fight that was linked from the Tyson Fury article. That fight was quite entertaining, in a freak show sort of way, but the stand-up sections reminded me of times I've watched video of MMA's "top strikers" fighting. Having watched some of them, and come to the conclusion that despite being "top strikers" they can't box a lick, I wondered whether in fact these guys are equally as shit on the floor? I have no idea, because I don't know what to look for, but if their ground skills are equivalent to their standup skills, we could be watching people who just suck at everything.

You make it sound like every boxing fight is like Benn V McCellan
There are more better examples of mma then the fights or fighters youve mentioned, if you based your opinion on the mma with the fights/fighters youve mentioned i think you must of already made up your mind before you started .
There are far more fun fights in mma than boring ones,thats why its grew as a mainstream sport fast as it has , you need to go educate yourself and watch fighters like ,Jnr Dos Santos Anderson Silva ,Cain Velasquez ,Wand Silva,Nick Diaz ,Melvin Manoff, if you dont find any of these guys exciting then you really dont like combat in sports.
I am a boxer/boxing fan first and foremost ,but i am huge fight fan wether that be K1, MMA etc

SamWise72 wrote:I watched a couple of the linked fights, as well as the previous bits of MMA I've watched, and a couple of things occurred to me. Well, the first didn't really occur; I was watching Toney's fight, and I thought a) Toney is a tough SOB, but b), why does anyone watch this? A bloke sits on Toney's head, and they wing ineffectual punches from that position til he chokes Toney unconscious. A genuine test of fighting? Yes. Any fun? Absolutely bloody not. Then I watched Imamu Mayfield fail to throw a single punch, or even step into striking range, in his bout. Dull as old arse. So yeah, I was reminded that MMA is really not fun to watch (which is not intended to disrespect it as a very tough sport).

Then something else occurred to me, while watching the Bob Sapp fight that was linked from the Tyson Fury article. That fight was quite entertaining, in a freak show sort of way, but the stand-up sections reminded me of times I've watched video of MMA's "top strikers" fighting. Having watched some of them, and come to the conclusion that despite being "top strikers" they can't box a lick, I wondered whether in fact these guys are equally as shit on the floor? I have no idea, because I don't know what to look for, but if their ground skills are equivalent to their standup skills, we could be watching people who just suck at everything.

You make it sound like every boxing fight is like Benn V McCellan
There are more better examples of mma then the fights or fighters youve mentioned, if you based your opinion on the mma with the fights/fighters youve mentioned i think you must of already made up your mind before you started .
There are far more fun fights in mma than boring ones,thats why its grew as a mainstream sport fast as it has , you need to go educate yourself and watch fighters like ,Jnr Dos Santos Anderson Silva ,Cain Velasquez ,Wand Silva,Nick Diaz ,Melvin Manoff, if you dont find any of these guys exciting then you really dont like combat in sports.
I am a boxer/boxing fan first and foremost ,but i am huge fight fan wether that be K1, MMA etc
Just watch this fight below and i dare you to say its boring or not "FUN"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu9Uw63eXL8

I'm not a huge UFC fan (although I am a fan) but this fight is far more entertaining than the majority of boxing matches.

JON BONES JONES vs RAMPAGE JACKSON

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUuHUmDy-E

Dan Henderson v shogun rua!!!

Watch that it is creepy siiiick!!!

mrpedigree wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:I watched a couple of the linked fights, as well as the previous bits of MMA I've watched, and a couple of things occurred to me. Well, the first didn't really occur; I was watching Toney's fight, and I thought a) Toney is a tough SOB, but b), why does anyone watch this? A bloke sits on Toney's head, and they wing ineffectual punches from that position til he chokes Toney unconscious. A genuine test of fighting? Yes. Any fun? Absolutely bloody not. Then I watched Imamu Mayfield fail to throw a single punch, or even step into striking range, in his bout. Dull as old arse. So yeah, I was reminded that MMA is really not fun to watch (which is not intended to disrespect it as a very tough sport).

Then something else occurred to me, while watching the Bob Sapp fight that was linked from the Tyson Fury article. That fight was quite entertaining, in a freak show sort of way, but the stand-up sections reminded me of times I've watched video of MMA's "top strikers" fighting. Having watched some of them, and come to the conclusion that despite being "top strikers" they can't box a lick, I wondered whether in fact these guys are equally as shit on the floor? I have no idea, because I don't know what to look for, but if their ground skills are equivalent to their standup skills, we could be watching people who just suck at everything.

You make it sound like every boxing fight is like Benn V McCellan
There are more better examples of mma then the fights or fighters youve mentioned, if you based your opinion on the mma with the fights/fighters youve mentioned i think you must of already made up your mind before you started .
There are far more fun fights in mma than boring ones,thats why its grew as a mainstream sport fast as it has , you need to go educate yourself and watch fighters like ,Jnr Dos Santos Anderson Silva ,Cain Velasquez ,Wand Silva,Nick Diaz ,Melvin Manoff, if you dont find any of these guys exciting then you really dont like combat in sports.
I am a boxer/boxing fan first and foremost ,but i am huge fight fan wether that be K1, MMA etc
Just watch this fight below and i dare you to say its boring or not "FUN"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu9Uw63eXL8

That was better than most I've seen, but it would have been a lot more fluid and enjoyable if they weren't worried about being taken to ground, and then you've got K1. To be honest, while a tear up like Benn McClellan its fun, I'm much more a fan of great boxing skills. I'd rather watch Pernell Whittaker or Herol Graham, really.

clopixolacuphase wrote:I'm not a huge UFC fan (although I am a fan) but this fight is far more entertaining than the majority of boxing matches.

JON BONES JONES vs RAMPAGE JACKSON

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYUuHUmDy-E

Jones was impressive but as a spectacle it was still a bit of a yawn at times, due to the fact it was so one sided

Jackson apparently wants to move into boxing
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... a&id=16103

Final round wrote:Jackson apparently wants to move into boxing
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... a&id=16103

He would get beat by any pro not in the top 100 imo

mrpedigree wrote:

Final round wrote:Jackson apparently wants to move into boxing
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... a&id=16103

He would get beat by any pro not in the top 100 imo

There are some poor pros in any profession mrpedigree; getting paid for a job doesn't mean that it's done in a good fashion or with the correct spirit.

palooka wrote:

mrpedigree wrote:

Final round wrote:Jackson apparently wants to move into boxing
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... a&id=16103

He would get beat by any pro not in the top 100 imo

There are some poor pros in any profession mrpedigree; getting paid for a job doesn't mean that it's done in a good fashion or with the correct spirit.

Thats true