BoxRec

Yup

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Yup

I reckon like the FOTC but no clowning about from Ali..better speed...better stamina.....Frazier was never better that night...Ali was better many times...

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

to you as well

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

^^^

100% on the money.

I was very keen on boxing back in this era and on the night of 3/8/71 I fully expected to see Frazier win by TKO somewhere between the 10th and 13th.

I was very surprised that Ali went the distance that night.

Sometime later I saw the complete fight and two things were evident to me.

1. Frazier did not show the head movement and seemed a bit slower overall than what he had been in '69. He made a great effort that night but physically was a bit past his peak. The medical issues and broken ankle from 1970 very likely had caught up with him.

2. Ali fought a great, great fight and it was very possibly his greatest effort in the ring.

1969 Frazier stops any version of Ali late.

evrenb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

to you as well

Ok, in the future I'd avoid asking questions if they're going to send you into a hissy fit. I did have a nice nap, though.

I of course like many would disagree with Saad and Yancey on this matter.

I assume I will be forgiven for my brand of hissy fittin' on this subject.

But maybe, I don't fully disagree. It's hard for me to imagine an Ali that comes to any fight with as much "forged steel focus" as Joe had For Muhammad on that night. There is just nothing about Joe that would cause anyone including Muhammad to pull every loose string of consciousness together toward such a concentrated laser guided mission.

Ali represented a once in a lifetime neon target, Joe was very personally and culturally involved around this being HIS mission. I always talk about the psyche of the fight game, and the fact is there has never been a more iconic target than Ali. There was never a better vessel to spell defeat for Ali than Joe Frazier. Only that version of a wrecking machine would have the odds in his favor in such a way.

So to be clear. I think Ali had the tools at his best to beat this man. I'm just not sure that the "crack" (and I mean this purely in a psyche way) that Joe was "smokin'" may have been to much for any "skillset" Ali possessed, to overcome such smoke.

Foreman was the only way Ali could "beat Joe at his best". Not because he could do it directly, but only indirectly. I do believe that this game is much about emotion, and imagination. Equal or above the relevance of skill and perhaps even talent.

BoxBuzz wrote:Hey...I LIVE in England....just NEWER.

Where'd you find the turn of phrase, old chap?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

evrenb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

to you as well

Ok, in the future I'd avoid asking questions if they're going to send you into a hissy fit. I did have a nice nap, though.

I never realised i was so boring to send you to sleep....does your boyfriend have that effect on you....?
And you dont bother responding tough guy when someones opinion differs....:-D

yancey wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ali was NEVER good enough to beat that Frazier. Muhammad fought great, he just met a wrecking machine and Joe was probably more destructive a year or two earlier.

^^^

100% on the money.

I was very keen on boxing back in this era and on the night of 3/8/71 I fully expected to see Frazier win by TKO somewhere between the 10th and 13th.

I was very surprised that Ali went the distance that night.

Sometime later I saw the complete fight and two things were evident to me.

1. Frazier did not show the head movement and seemed a bit slower overall than what he had been in '69. He made a great effort that night but physically was a bit past his peak. The medical issues and broken ankle from 1970 very likely had caught up with him.

2. Ali fought a great, great fight and it was very possibly his greatest effort in the ring.

1969 Frazier stops any version of Ali late.

Good points.

It doesn't get mentioned a lot about Frazier's fractured Ankle in 1970.

Many have stated that he was in his prime in 1971, but like you say, it was more like 1969.

I really wish Ali had not have been banned in 1967, because his theoretical prime was 1969 also: what a fight those two would have had in '69!

evrenb wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

evrenb wrote: to you as well

Ok, in the future I'd avoid asking questions if they're going to send you into a hissy fit. I did have a nice nap, though.

I never realised i was so boring to send you to sleep....does your boyfriend have that effect on you....?
And you dont bother responding tough guy when someones opinion differs....:-D