BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Question

How do you 'equate', that Rudi Lubbers goes 12-Rounds with Muhammad Ali, yet Muhammad Ali stops
George Foreman.

Now be honest,,,,,,,,,,,That's OK, you can say it.

Muhammad Ali is not recognized as the knockout puncher that Foreman is. He was a very good fighter who could hurt guys and did hurt guys on a regular basis, but he was never considered a monstrous puncher that would "destroy" guys...in most cases anyhow.

Ali's stopping Foreman had just as much to do with mental and physical exhaustion as it had to do with the power of his punches. Ali exhausted Foreman by being able to take everything he could dish out and continue to counter back with snapping, jarring shots of his own that eventually broke down Foreman's resistance.

Rudi Lubbers achievement of having gone the distance with Muhammad Ali is certainly nothing to scoff at and dismiss. I'm sure it was a legitimately game and brave effort from Lubbers and I'm sure he fought to the best of his ability that night.

But a fighter's career is not based on his performance against one man.

Foreman could not beat Ali this is true, Lubbers couldn't beat Ali either.

But Foreman and Lubbers records aside from Muhammad Ali speak for themselves. I mean Joe Frazier went the distance with Ali twice beating him once...it sure didn't help him against Foreman.

Ken Norton went the distance with Ali 3 times, beating him once and arguably deserving at least 1 more of the decisions in their other 2 fights. Didn't help him against Foreman.

George Chuvalo went the distance with Ali....guess what happened when he fought Foreman?

The scoring system for Ali vs Lubbers was I assume scored under the 5 point must system. and the scores were 60-40, 60-45, and 59-52.

So basically that means 1 of 3 judges felt Lubbers won 1 round, and the other 2 felt he won none.

At the time of the KO in Ali vs Foreman. The judges had it 4-2-1, 3-0-4, and 4-1-2 in Ali's favor.

So officially Foreman had won 2 more rounds against Ali than Lubbers did despite having been KO'ed.

Foreman was 76-5 with 68 KO's...a devastating KO puncher who very few men ever survived the distance against. Lubbers was 28-8 with 13 KO's nowhere near the puncher that Foreman was, and his best wins pale in comparison to Foreman's best wins.



I don't know how I could explain it to you any more thoroughly. If you genuinely believe Lubbers could defeat the George Foreman of Zaire then you are either hopelessly ignorant, or just f*cking with me.

At any rate. I've thoroughly explained my case.

If you want to come up with as many reasons as I did here of why Lubbers defeats Foreman I'd read it. Though you might want to wash your hands after pulling all of the reasons you do out of your ass.

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

ThatOne wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Rudi was stopped four times by such all time greats as Gordon Racette, Alfredo Evangelista, Mike Schutte and Dominico Adinolfi.


I would bet my d--k pre 75 Ali could beat all four of those guys on the same night in a series of four rounders. I would bet my left testicle that he can stop at least three of them in the alotted four rounds.

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers 'trained' for 9-Months

So you were in Holland watching him train, from February 1973 thru October 1973.

Let me see your 'Dutch Boy Wooden Shoes'........

Il Duce wrote:Here, Rudi Lubbers has Muhammad Ali 'dipping', after landing a short left hook to the ribs.

gilgamesh wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Rudi was stopped four times by such all time greats as Gordon Racette, Alfredo Evangelista, Mike Schutte and Dominico Adinolfi.


I would bet my d--k pre 75 Ali could beat all four of those guys on the same night in a series of four rounders. I would bet my left testicle that he can stop at least three of them in the alotted four rounds.

I assume you think he'd stop Racette, Schutte and Adinolfi then. He did in fact fight Evangelista and go the 15 round distance against him.

Of course this was the 1977 Ali who was nearing the end of his run at the top.

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Here, Rudi Lubbers has Muhammad Ali 'dipping', after landing a short left hook to the ribs.

The man in that photograph does not look like Muhammad Ali for one thing.

Even if it were, he lost all 12 rounds on 2 scorecards and 11 on the other. He survived....that's all.

He wasn't a threat to win the fight.

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Fact,

Rudi could not have trained '9-months' for Muhammad Ali.

He signed the 'fight contract' in mid-June 1973. At best, that's 3+ Months.

Not too many decent Heavyweight 'sparring-partners' in The Netherlands at that time.

Il Duce wrote:Wrong

Rudi was only 'lightly bruised' on his face from Muhammad Ali's punches.

As per Rudi,

"Joe Bugner hit harder than Muhammad Ali. Muhammad was 'faster' by far and the much
better boxer. But, Muhammad had a tendency to 'quit' after he landed a good punch,
if you came back with your own punch."

Il Duce wrote:Actually,

The Muhammad Ali Camp sent '39' year-old Dave Bailey {Muhammad Ali 'sparring-partner}
over to Cologne, Germany in December 1971 to 'test out' Rudi Lubbers.

Muhammad, after losing to Joe Frazier in March 1971, was out to embark on a European Tour,
and ABC-TV was looking to line up bouts with 'capable' but non-threatening European
Heavyweights {ie; Jurgen Blin}.

Dave Bailey was sent in the see what Rudi Lubbers had.

Dave was 'KO'd in 4'.

Rudi was 'too good', and was scratched off the list.

Il Duce wrote:June 2, 1973

Fight announced for October 12, 1973

Muhammad Ali vs. Rudi Lubbers

In the meantime, Heavyweight Champion - George Foreman was trying to line up a Title Defense against;
* Larry Middleton
* Oscar Bonavena
* Kenny Norton
* Jose Manuel Urtain
* Jurgen Blin

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... jyh7ebmwYg

Il Duce wrote:Actually,

The Muhammad Ali Camp sent '39' year-old Dave Bailey {Muhammad Ali 'sparring-partner}
over to Cologne, Germany in December 1971 to 'test out' Rudi Lubbers.

Muhammad, after losing to Joe Frazier in March 1971, was out to embark on a European Tour,
and ABC-TV was looking to line up bouts with 'capable' but non-threatening European
Heavyweights {ie; Jurgen Blin}.

Dave Bailey was sent in the see what Rudi Lubbers had.

Dave was 'KO'd in 4'.

Rudi was 'too good', and was scratched off the list.

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Muhammad Ali 'only' fought him, after he was worn down by Joe Bugner.

Muhammad Ali {3" taller} and {20 lbs. heavier}, always the 'bully'.

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Rudi Lubbers

Muhammad Ali 'only' fought him, after he was worn down by Joe Bugner.

Muhammad Ali {3" taller} and {20 lbs. heavier}, always the 'bully'.

I'm done with this thread. If you think Ali didn't want to fight Lubbers in 1972 or '71 because he was "Too good" for Ali. You are either a troll who's thing is to hate on Ali or an absolute idiot.

Either way I'm done wasting my time with this conversation.

You're the only idiot on this entire forum who would be saying the things you are saying. Even other Ali haters wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Ali avoided Lubbers or that Lubbers could've defeated Foreman because they would know it's just nonsense.

Il Duce wrote:

Flump wrote:Il Duce, did you know that Ali did a television interview between rounds with Reg Gutteridge during this fight?

Yes I do, it was a 'diversionary ploy' to take away from his inept performance against a small Dutchman.

Do you also know, that the Senayan Stadium was woefully empty, as only 25,000 Indonesians showed up
to a Stadium that held 125,000.

The fans even got tired of booing Muhammad Ali, and many fell asleep.......

I have pictures........

Il Duce wrote:

Flump wrote:Il Duce, did you know that Ali did a television interview between rounds with Reg Gutteridge during this fight?

Yes I do, it was a 'diversionary ploy' to take away from his inept performance against a small Dutchman.

Do you also know, that the Senayan Stadium was woefully empty, as only 25,000 Indonesians showed up
to a Stadium that held 125,000.

The fans even got tired of booing Muhammad Ali, and many fell asleep.......

I have pictures........

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

gilgamesh wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

A Rock concert is a far more Festive occasion than a Prize fight. Particularly a one-sided one.

I'd rather see Deep Purple live in their heyday than Ali vs Lubbers as well.