BoxRec

BoxBuzz wrote:Il...

I just went back and checked the record book again.....

Same winner as last week when I looked.

Let me know if you see anything different.

The judges scores were 8-4, 7-4-1, and 6-5-1, all in favor of Ali. I scored the fight 9-3 for Ali. What made this fight night and day from their first battle was that Frazier was unable to dictate the tempo of the fight. He only connected sporadically with his left hook, and he spent most of the time trying to duck and slip and roll with Ali’s flurries. When he did get inside with a short chopping shot to the hips or to the body, Ali tied him up so that he could not press his advantage.

I tried to score this fight as objectively as I could, and I could not see where Frazier deserved this decision. Ali’s second fight with Norton was close, but the second fight with Frazier was not because Frazier had a hard time coping with Ali’s fast hands. Frazier would go on from this to win return matches with Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis. Then he would meet Ali in a rubber match in what turned out to be one of the greatest fights of all time.


http://www.eastsideboxing.com/weblog/ne ... 813&more=1

The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce wrote:Following this bout

'Vise Grip' offered Muhammad Ali $1,000,000 to endorse their product.

A 'new' Product Line..........called the 'Ali'.

You know...I followed up on this....and found this to be:

More Fanciful, harmless banter.

Il Duce wrote:Round 2

{0:07} > Muhammad Ali comes out 'flying' around the Ring' very fast. Almost like he missed his Flight to Vietnam.

{0:09} > Muhammad throws 'slapping' type punches, in a strictly amateur style.

{0:11} > Joe Frazier starts laughing, as he chases the 'running' Muhammad Ali.

{0:15} > Joe Frazier traps Muhammad Ali, and 'nails' him with a left hook.

{0:17} > Muhammad Ali is back on the move, running faster than anyone has ever seen before.

{0:23} > Muhammad Ali tries '3' left hooks, and misses badly with each one.

{0:26} > Joe Frazier stalks a fleeing Muhammad Ali.

{0:33} > Muhammad misses 'badly' with a right uppercut.

{0:35} > Muhammad Ali misses badly with left hook, and grabs Joe Frazier, while holding on for dear life.

{0:42} > Muhammad Ali 'holds' on to Joe Frazier for '6-Seconds', as Referee Tony Perez forces Muhammad Ali to let go.

Surely people have run faster in Track and Field, no?

"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Now Yancey....be fair here.

All I've really said...is we will never know.

I know I don't know.

But I "imagine" Joe would have been in trouble.

You just as honorably imagine Joe was just taking a breather. Perhaps just letting those pitty pats bounce off of his face, acting like a good cup of espresso.

I'm just thankful that Perez stepped in before Ali could come with the "anchor" punch.

Joe would have been laid out for sure.

Well.....of course....but wiley Joe was not going to fall for that trap.

Joe never fell for an anchor punch from anyone.

In fact...even as hard as George hit him.....He was never really stopped.

Not even in Manilla. Took George and a ref the first time....and Ali and a cornerman the second time.

Joking in my prior post, of course.

Ali was not going to knock out Joe.

yancey wrote:"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

Holding is part of boxing. As Tony Perez said "all Frazier, being the shorter man, had to do was slip down to break the clinch. But he seemed to be enjoying the respite."

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

yancey wrote:"LMFAO, Ali put on a clinic ..." ThatOne



ThatOne, since you seem to emphasize how broad minded you are, how do you truly assess Ali's tactics in the second fight?

Did they bother you at all?

Holding is part of boxing. As Tony Perez said "all Frazier, being the shorter man, had to do was slip down to break the clinch. But he seemed to be enjoying the respite."

Not so sure about 'That One'

Mid-way through the 1st-Round, Muhammad Ali pushed very hard on Joe Frazier's neck, and Joe pointed
to the back of his neck with his right-hand.

Referee - Tony Perez was too busy, combing his hair......... "Didn't see it Joe"

I'm just being loyal to the facts as I always am. Mr. Perez said Joe seemed to be enjoying the rest:

Ali was awarded a unanimous decision over Frazier. Judge Jack Gordon scored the fight 8-4, judge Tony Castellano scored it 7-4-1, and referee Tony Perez had it 6-5-1. The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce wrote:Tony Castellano {New York State Scoring Official}

As per the guidelines set forth by the N.Y.S.A.C, - I can only follow the direction of the
Referee, in regard to point deductions.

Personally, I saw '26' flagrant fouls committed by Muhammad Ali, and a host of others
that warranted a 'break-in-the-action' and admonishing Mr. Ali for the 'fouls committed'.

Repeated fouls would have warranted a Disqualification, if I was in charge.

Tony Castellano...........

Have you ever spoke the truth once in your life? Constant lying is the sine qua non of a sociopath.

Ali was awarded a unanimous decision over Frazier. Judge Jack Gordon scored the fight 8-4, judge Tony Castellano scored it 7-4-1, and referee Tony Perez had it 6-5-1. The unofficial AP scorecard had Ali winning 8-4, and the unofficial UPI scorecard had Ali ahead 7-4-1.

Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

SteveO wrote:Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

The Ducer lives in his own version of reality. It's a land where the sane never intrude.

Il Duce wrote:

SteveO wrote:Il Duce sees Ali's fights differently to normal people. As I've said before thank goodness he's not a boxing judge - he would come up with some very strange scorecards!

Prove that you are impartial........How many holds from Muhammad Ali in this bout.

If you were the Referee, would you have 'warned him', or 'kissed his coolie'.

As the referee I would have expected a veteran fighter to know how to break off a clinch. As Perez said "Joe seemed to be enjoying the rest." Maybe that's why he gave Joe rests during rounds as opposed to giving him and Muhammad the customary rest between rounds.

I didn't even see {Steve O's} mouth move when he posted this............


-Il Duce

If you and Mr. O would like to engage in a private conversation the private message mechanism exists for that very purpose.

ThatOne wrote:

No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere

Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

You are almost as much a troll and zealot as Duce. I think both you guys need to have a break from posting.

Yeah referring to Ali as "The Alpha and Omega" is pretty damn ridiculous as well.

The quote is from Coretta Clay, hence the quotation marks...

Tomasino wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

No, I'm pretty sure that fight between those two prime undefeated all time greats for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world was the biggest fight of their careers.
Anyway serf on, maybe bronze age Santa will change history and make Ali the winner of FOTC.

-hhaere

Your logic is flawed. He never becomes champion if he doesn't upset Sonny Liston as a 7-1 underdog. However as a gentleman I will meet you in the middle. It was the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career.


Ali needs no more gifts from God beyond those he has already bestowed on him. ""There'll never be another like him. He is the Alpha and the Omega."

You are almost as much a troll and zealot as Duce. I think both you guys need to have a break from posting.

Thank you for your counsel but I will heed my own.

Oh, as I said the quote is from his mother, hence the quotation marks, ergo:

Coretta Clay, a small woman with the firm-boned features of the world champion's father, abandoned herself to a high, ecstatic laugh at the door of the kitchen. `There'll never be another like him,' she shrilled when she recovered. `He is the Alpha and the Omega.'


http://www.kilmarnockacademy.co.uk/famo ... tagain.htm


And I appreciate Il Duce...He's nothing if not provocative. And even on the rarest of occasions, actually funny...

Il Duce wrote:Tomasino

Master of Wisdom

But, isn't he who cast the first stone, an expert.

He should heed the admonition of his fellow Brit who opined "If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. "

The bloke actually learned something...

Il Duce, for your act to really excel you need That One to participate. But you need some fresh material, dawg...

Here are my five favorite fighters:

The GOAT
Sugar Ray Leonard
Lennox Lewis
Joe Louis
George Foreman

You need to give them the Il Duce treatment.

Il Duce wrote:That Way

First off, I don't comment on any GOAT.

You need to up your game, dawg, or it will only be you and that professional scold, Tomasino, here...

Il Duce wrote:Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

I wonder if Tomasino will approve of that. He seems to be quite the "stick in the mud".

Il Duce wrote:Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

And got whipped in the biggest fight of his career.

yancey wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

And got whipped in the biggest fight of his career.

"A dream is a wish the heart makes."

-Cinderella

The biggest fight of his career is when he dispatched of the heretofore undefeated and seemingly invincible George Foreman as a 3-1 underdog in eight rounds. The same George Foreman who dispatched of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in less time then it took the procrastinators to get to their ringside seats.

It was certainly the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career...

ThatOne wrote:

yancey wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Overview

The 'GOAT'
* Very talented boxer, but a better showman.
* Quick-fisted, and as equally quick-witted.
* Lightning reflexes {early career}.
* A 'Dance Master' that featured the 'stick-and-move' tactic.
* Tremendous courage in the Ring.
* Ability to adjust to the force opposing him.
* Came along when the 'Boxing Game' needed an injection of juice.
* Boxing's greatest entertainer.
* Opened the doors for 'big fight purses'.
* Brewed tremendous confidence in himself.

And got whipped in the biggest fight of his career.

"A dream is a wish the heart makes."

-Cinderella

The biggest fight of his career is when he dispatched of the heretofore undefeated and seemingly invincible George Foreman as a 3-1 underdog in eight rounds. The same George Foreman who dispatched of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in less time then it took the procrastinators to get to their ringside seats.

It was certainly the biggest fight in Joe Frazier's career...

"Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

Come on man, face it.

Your guy lost.....

The Big One.