BoxRec

Cap wrote: ↑06 Jul 2021, 10:02 Ali by easy decision if he doesn't force a stoppage before that. Most, if not all, of the big men Dempsey fought on the way up were carny freaks, left over from the 'White Hope' era. He beat little Georges Carpentier who lost to every good fighter he went up against. He nearly lost to a one-armed built up stumble-bum in Firpo. He nearly lost to Bill Brennan, a fringe contender at best. He drew the colour line after he won the title and ducked middleweight Harry Greb but fought Tommy Gibbons and couldn't put the middleweight away.

Dempsey was an exciting fighter. The sportswriters loved him and helped Tex Rickard create his ferocious personna, but he wasn't the same fighter after he beat Willard. Doc Kearns made sure no real threat would cross Dempsey's path. He even hired guys like Jack Renault as sparring partners to discourage them from challenging his meal ticket. [Renault even went along to Hollywood with Dempsey and joined in the wild parties and film making, and was never the same after].

A prime Ali would destroy a prime Dempsey like the one who beat Willard.

Cap, I agree that Ai would have won.
Having said that, you really aren't being fair to Dempsey.

Dempsey did not by any means have an easy ride to title on his way up.
Fulton and Morris were serious contenders.
Carpentier beat several good fighters. Levinsky, Beckett, Smith etc. Also gave Jeannette a tough fight.)
Dempsey didn't almost lose to Brennan, who was more than a fringe contender.
Gibbons was a light heavyweight, not a middleweight.
Firpo while obviously having flaws, was a good fighter. He beat some good fighters.

Dempsey did not duck Harry Greb.

would Muhammad Ali have been able to bounce and dance around the ring
on a canvas made in 1919 ?

Yes.

but would he be able to move around with 1919 boxing shoes ?

Yes.

what were the differances (if any)
of how boxing rings were set up in 1919 compared to 1969 ?
also boxing shoes from 1919 and 1969 ?

Little to no difference.

to quote Jack Palance in SHANE "Prove it" .

I'm still not convinced that Ali would have been able to move around as well in a boxing ring and shoes from 1919.
He probably would have had to fight Dempsey the way he fought Bonavena in 1970.

Tunney was able to move around. Corbett did it well before that.

Okay, You've convinced me.

People who think Dempsey would have fought Ali much less had a snowballs chance in hell against him dont know jack shit about boxing or Dempsey.

So speaketh Klompton the Great, peerless pugilistic intellect and fount of all knowledge....

Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021, 16:40 Okay, You've convinced me.

klompton wrote: ↑15 Jul 2021, 00:14 People who think Dempsey would have fought Ali much less had a snowballs chance in hell against him dont know jack shit about boxing or Dempsey.

He would have fought Ali. He would not have beaten him.

Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021, 16:40 Okay, You've convinced me.

That may be a first for boxrec.

Dempsey has a good chance. Ali would rightfully be the favourite. But Dempsey had speed, an all-time left hook and very good mobility. These traits generally saw lesser fighters do better than expected against Ali.

I pick Ali, of course. But Dempsey is a live dog.

Against Ali of say 1970-1975 he would be competitive. 1964-1967, no.

Dempsey was one of the greats at heavyweight. If not Top 10, just outside of it. He gets a bad rap from some for the Tunney fights.

Cooper and Jones were competitive.

Jones and the first Cooper fight were before 1964. The 2nd Cooper fight (in 1966) was not competitive.

klompton wrote: ↑15 Jul 2021, 00:14 People who think Dempsey would have fought Ali much less had a snowballs chance in hell against him dont know jack shit about boxing or Dempsey.

- Whilst the Bigfoot Society continues to scour field and forest for The Big Goof, in the background of an impressive array of perfessers debate his morphology, IQ, citizenship status, right to vote, and whether he/she/it/other qualifies for food stamps and healthcare. Yet here at Boxrec we are blessed with our very own registered Klompfoot making a biennial stomping of his fetid fields of fecundity in his everquest of The Holy Grail of Greb. 

Had Politicians back in the day been as properly WOKE as those of today, why they would've jumped on RedSox owner Harry Frazee's record $350 K offer to stage Dempsey vs Wills in Fenway Park ca 1922. Alas, the enfeebled morass of their day precluded that event and subsequent follow up offer in 1923 in the newly minted House that Babe Built, and so on and so forth all the way up to Gene Tunney. Was they ever even making grubby Greb offers?

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn ... -1/seq-31/

No matter, I've always favored prime Joe Louis and Jack Dempsey natural attributes over prime Ali who had a dubious run in his prime marred by firebombing religious beliefs and Sonny Liston. And anyone professing different, why they don't know Jack or Joe...only in boxing, folks...

Ali should win pretty comfortably. He seems to have fought in a better era and matches up okay stylistically.

Dempsey didn't even beat his most formidable contemporaries. If Dempsey is unfairly judged for the Tunney fights perhaps he should have tried fighting Tunney earlier.

Agree that a prime Ali would have beaten Dempsey. (Or anyone for that matter.)
Dempsey did have a respectable title reign during his first four years as champion. He did sign for the Wills fight which fell through. He should have defended the tile against someone in 1924 and 1925.
Dempsey-Tunney in 1924 would have been interesting.

Muhammad Ali - as Jack Dempsey is one of the most overrated fighters in history. He'd be a top 15 - 20 light heavy / cruiserweight if he was around in this day and age.

15-20 cruiserweight???

My oh my how people seriously under rate the fighters of old. This reminds me of Facebook comments I have seen where people (no bullshit) have made comments like, "I could whip Dempsey's ass," when I would bet the farm that the 15-year-old Kid Blackie let alone The Manassas Mauler would knock them spark out.