BoxRec

Fat Git wrote:Keep your chin up Damo, he is a good guy.

You think the investigators, Solicitors and Judges will bear that in mind when they make their decisions ? I think it will come down to liability, responsibility and safety provisions.

Anzi wrote:

Fat Git wrote:Keep your chin up Damo, he is a good guy.

You think the investigators, Solicitors and Judges will bear that in mind when they make their decisions ? I think it will come down to liability, responsibility and safety provisions.

Really? I think it will come down to the fact the deceased gentleman died from a heart attack
resulting from kidney failure, meaning he died from a non-boxing related fatality, or something
that wasn't caused from his boxing that night.

RIP Lance.

Have some respect for this young gentleman before u come on having a sly dig at the white collar boxing circuit! RIP Lance!!!

Damien has been keeping tabs on this thread. He is overwhelmed by the support some of you have given him.

He has stated that he will never again run a show has this has affected him deeply.

Now he is going to try and implement a new way for semi pro boxing meaning boxers take yearly check ups and medicals etc.
A card that means a fighter stopped cannot then step into the ring and box for said governing body before a certain number of days. I believe he is also training to be a paramedic too so the subject of safety is quite close to his heart. I believe an incident like this will probably make him more determined to be a paramedic, as those are his 2 passions. Boxing and that, along with his Children.

Having boxed and been to a many of his shows, I can say that the Paramedics DO have oxygen at ringside. They seem to have majority of the things an amateur show or pro show have. Now I didn't go up and ask them exactly what they carry so I can give an educated decision on each but I have seen them revive people with oxygen.

With regards to Lance Prayogg Ferguson - In my eyes he was semi pro. The lads was too good to be called unlicensed or white collar. He did it partly as a hobby but to also get a secondary income. He would have got no income from amateur so being semi pro made it worthwhile for him to travel away at weekends to do his passion.

The amateurs are far, far better than 99% of the unlicensed. We've got a four fight 17 year old who could stand all the unlicensed 12stoners I've seen on their heads(he is good though !).

expe wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

Anzi wrote:White collar as it is called, even though most shows are not true white collar, but a mixture of hard knocks off the street, ex squaddies, ex pro's, ex amateurs, bar room brawlers, unfit overweight guys, sportsmen and rejected pro's, add to this bad matchmaking, weight differentials and different levels of training or even non at all, then you have a problem. White collar started off as an experience for solicitors, accountants, doctors and office workers, people who would not normally fight, but for one night only, they could experience being a boxer, in what was just a glorified spa, with head guards and 16 oz gloves, normally with friends or someone they had been sparring with in training at the gym, nothing really serious, unlike most so called white collar fights today.

For possibly the first time ever, I agree with saf. The types he described are typical of almost every fighter I have seen on the unlicensed circuit.

Same here, something must be wrong with us. People claim there's a place for these shows, but I'm yet to see what I would consider a credible argument in favour of them.

People buy tickets and the participants are willing, no? That's justification enough for me.

Sklar wrote:

expe wrote:

mickey1975 wrote: For possibly the first time ever, I agree with saf. The types he described are typical of almost every fighter I have seen on the unlicensed circuit.

Same here, something must be wrong with us. People claim there's a place for these shows, but I'm yet to see what I would consider a credible argument in favour of them.

People buy tickets and the participants are willing, no? That's justification enough for me.

Why don't they turn pro then?

All sorts of reasons. Some of them may struggle or think they'll struggle to get a licence because of past legal wrangles, some can't afford the scan, some can make more money on the unlicensed scene, some are overt steroid users and don't want to stop, some are not good enough, some may have been knocked back for whatever reason, etc, etc...

jonp wrote:So was this show unlicenced or was it with a licencing body? If a licencing body isnt stepping forward to take full responsibilty for this show then surely it must be unlicenced? or do they only licence when nothing goes wrong?

Its just easier to say not licensed by the BBBoC. You know full well we could start an organization ourselves tomorrow mate and issue Mickey Mouse licenses to who ever we wanted.

Sklar wrote:All sorts of reasons. Some of them may struggle or think they'll struggle to get a licence because of past legal wrangles, some can't afford the scan, some can make more money on the unlicensed scene, some are overt steroid users and don't want to stop, some are not good enough, some may have been knocked back for whatever reason, etc, etc...

All valid reasons

mickey1975 wrote:The amateurs are far, far better than 99% of the unlicensed. We've got a four fight 17 year old who could stand all the unlicensed 12stoners I've seen on their heads(he is good though !).

How many has he had? Can I view him on YouTube. Don't doubt the amateurs are better however there are some gems in it along with some very very good ex amateurs

Anzi wrote:White collar as it is called, even though most shows are not true white collar, but a mixture of hard knocks off the street, ex squaddies, ex pro's, ex amateurs, bar room brawlers, unfit overweight guys, sportsmen and rejected pro's, add to this bad matchmaking, weight differentials and different levels of training or even non at all, then you have a problem. White collar started off as an experience for solicitors, accountants, doctors and office workers, people who would not normally fight, but for one night only, they could experience being a boxer, in what was just a glorified spa, with head guards and 16 oz gloves, normally with friends or someone they had been sparring with in training at the gym, nothing really serious, unlike most so called white collar fights today.

this is where i'm a little confused ,i think of white collar as office bods fighting where as it seems to be more like unlicenced fights .
anyway that's a small matter at a time like this

Sklar wrote:All sorts of reasons. Some of them may struggle or think they'll struggle to get a licence because of past legal wrangles, some can't afford the scan, some can make more money on the unlicensed scene, some are overt steroid users and don't want to stop, some are not good enough, some may have been knocked back for whatever reason, etc, etc...

So don't box then, I'd love to be a footballer, but it ain't going to happen, not everyone's cut out for professional boxing, that's professional sport for you.

Lance was a fit lad,i couldnt believe it when i got the txt on sunday afternoon. Id seen on facebook after the coldwell manchester show and then txt Lance trainer because i knew by his facebook status it was a serious matter. Couldnt believe that only the week before id seen Lance in wallasey running as i always do then a couple of days later see him running in birkenhead,just thought he must have a fight comin up. Then sunday get a txt,i wasnt close to Lance but knew him and tried to give him pointers when id seen him sparring,it hit me like ton of bricks i thought "how could this fit lad just pass away like this?" All i could think was his poor family,its just devostating. :'(

kamicazze wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:The amateurs are far, far better than 99% of the unlicensed. We've got a four fight 17 year old who could stand all the unlicensed 12stoners I've seen on their heads(he is good though !).

How many has he had? Can I view him on YouTube. Don't doubt the amateurs are better however there are some gems in it along with some very very good ex amateurs

I said he's had four, won four, got byes all the way through to the England Youth semi final but we didn't want to put him in with a 50 bout England rep when he's only a novice. Selected for Yorkshire so we'll see how that goes. Hard to match really. They either don't want to know or have had 20 or 30 fights. Not on YouTube as we don't put any of our lads on there.

mickey1975 wrote:

kamicazze wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:The amateurs are far, far better than 99% of the unlicensed. We've got a four fight 17 year old who could stand all the unlicensed 12stoners I've seen on their heads(he is good though !).

How many has he had? Can I view him on YouTube. Don't doubt the amateurs are better however there are some gems in it along with some very very good ex amateurs

I said he's had four, won four, got byes all the way through to the England Youth semi final but we didn't want to put him in with a 50 bout England rep when he's only a novice. Selected for Yorkshire so we'll see how that goes. Hard to match really. They either don't want to know or have had 20 or 30 fights. Not on YouTube as we don't put any of our lads on there.

i had a gym mate that @ 16 couldn't get a fight ted bami he looked like a 25 year old man carved from bronze and he could dig then , other kids would pull out when they see him ...he went on to win the EBU light welter belt

The Insider wrote:

jonp wrote:So was this show unlicenced or was it with a licencing body? If a licencing body isnt stepping forward to take full responsibilty for this show then surely it must be unlicenced? or do they only licence when nothing goes wrong?

Its just easier to say not licensed by the BBBoC. You know full well we could start an organization ourselves tomorrow mate and issue Mickey Mouse licenses to who ever we wanted.

But would that make sure that boxers are properly covered in the event of something bad happining? Would it make sure that people involved were covered and not open to prosecution for not making sure every t is crossed and every I is dotted.

The point is people think they are as well covered and organised as Licenced shows but i think this whole thred shows they are not it is too dangerous a game for people to be playing at it with no one to be held responsible for safety and proper insurance.

Fat Git wrote:

Anzi wrote:

Fat Git wrote:Keep your chin up Damo, he is a good guy.

You think the investigators, Solicitors and Judges will bear that in mind when they make their decisions ? I think it will come down to liability, responsibility and safety provisions.

Really? I think it will come down to the fact the deceased gentleman died from a heart attack
resulting from kidney failure, meaning he died from a non-boxing related fatality, or something
that wasn't caused from his boxing that night.

RIP Lance.

I don't think you can assume that, until the post mort has been completed, even if you are right, they will investigate, to check if any delays stopped the fighter from being saved, especially with heart failure, the organisers can still be found liable, even if he died from none boxing related causes.

Whatever happens now the lads family will need money to live on it's an absolute tragedy

But in the cold light of day solicitors will be bombarding the family with offers to act for them on a no win no fee basis they will be saying that a young man has died leaving a young family without a father and nobody to provide for them so the will sue either the venue or promotor or both for failing to protect their employee I.e the boxer it doesn't matter about waivers etc at the end of the day a young man has tragically lost his life and solicitors will want to make sure somebody is held responsible
Whether the solicitors are successful remains to be seen

The guy apparently died of kidney failure, which in turn lead to a fatal heart attack and nothing relating to his fight.

expe wrote:

Sklar wrote:All sorts of reasons. Some of them may struggle or think they'll struggle to get a licence because of past legal wrangles, some can't afford the scan, some can make more money on the unlicensed scene, some are overt steroid users and don't want to stop, some are not good enough, some may have been knocked back for whatever reason, etc, etc...

So don't box then, I'd love to be a footballer, but it ain't going to happen, not everyone's cut out for professional boxing, that's professional sport for you.

You've lost me. Because nobody wants to pay to watch you play football, competitive sport should be abolished?

Sklar wrote:

expe wrote:

Sklar wrote:All sorts of reasons. Some of them may struggle or think they'll struggle to get a licence because of past legal wrangles, some can't afford the scan, some can make more money on the unlicensed scene, some are overt steroid users and don't want to stop, some are not good enough, some may have been knocked back for whatever reason, etc, etc...

So don't box then, I'd love to be a footballer, but it ain't going to happen, not everyone's cut out for professional boxing, that's professional sport for you.

You've lost me. Because nobody wants to pay to watch you play football, competitive sport should be abolished?

I think he's saying if for whatever reasons you're not capable of getting a BBBC license, then don't box.

Does the same apply if you can't get your pro card in golf?

Sklar wrote:Does the same apply if you can't get your pro card in golf?

No, but there isn't a market where you can sell your mates £20 tickets to watch you play golf and potentially get knocked out by an ex pro, amateur, roid head, whilst you think you're meeting someone in their first bout as well.

mickey1975 wrote:

Sklar wrote:Does the same apply if you can't get your pro card in golf?

No, but there isn't a market where you can sell your mates £20 tickets to watch you play golf and potentially get knocked out by an ex pro, amateur, roid head, whilst you think you're meeting someone in their first bout as well.

Well said mickey,thats my point about these shows there is no record on the fighter just his say so.