Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?
I just took a glimpse at both the Cotto and the Bradley fights, and I haven't noticed a major difference, such as in Pavlik vs Hopkins... what middleweights were you talking about?
Pacquiao withstanded a peculiar training to strengthen his bones, causing fibrocartilage-callus (bone-calluses), but it might not be an asset... presumably, his bones might have lost elasticity, so it's not very much a natural thing... he did that all over his body, so that might have braced his arms' bones, too. Here's some footage of some of that infamous training, for your entertainment:
Good point. That doesn't clash with my argument: Pacquiao's strong complexion and rather heavy bones, have allowed him to balance his less-than-flawless defence: the fact that he could hit so hard (and the guy hits hard-enough) allowed him to jump up weight classes...
...Same goes for Marciano: his heavier bone-complexion/structure allowed him to face even bigger guys who had no more punching power than Rocky had... and that thanks to his motherf*ckin bones...
...The above-reported was my point from the start, here.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 10:28
by Jacopodb
jamamb wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 17:54
wilder seems pretty skinny
In fact he isn't by any means a powerpuncher: he's more of a slugger: one like Frazier would eat him alive.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 10:45
by Jacopodb
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 19:22
Heavier bones with the same muscle mass put you in a higher weight class. It can't possibly be beneficial.
Ask amazing powerpuncher Tommy Hearns if he didn't feel Hagler's heavier hands... I could guess that technique also helps you developing punching power, but Tyson, also thanks to his heavy bone-calibre, could punch harder than taller guys. Same went for Marciano, I reckon.
adislav123 wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 06:19
[...] i'm to tired to explain your nonsense to you. The "thicker boned/harder puncher" poo you utter is just that.
Nothing in your "a heavier skeleton....", your last post makes sense... you are terribly wrong.
[...]
J say eff you! You will never get it... there are no boxers with the same skill level & reach & height & mass & what ever eff you criteria you wanna pull out of ur ass ... where then the one with wider wrists... whatever! eff you! Moron!
[...]
So canelo "schooled" golovkin? Yeah right. And having "thicker bones"/larger wrists makes you punch harder? Sure. The insights of a real expert.
A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.
Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...
Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?
Sir: Pacquiao often fought taller opponents, reaching their own same weight thanks to his own heavier (despite shorter...) skeleton, keeping a superior punching power...
...Do you need a lesson in solid geometry, or what?
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 11:26
by apollo creed
I always have thought that guys with big solid-bones and thick wrists are naturally heavy-handed. It's common sense. And it's no brainer that with the proper training and technique can increase the punching-power.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 11:41
by Jacopodb
apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 11:26
I always have thought that guys with big solid-bones and thick wrists are naturally heavy-handed. It's common sense. And it's no brainer that with the proper training and technique can increase the punching-power.
It's pretty much what I've been trying to say.
We might also give Cesar what's Cesar's: exploiting momentum, rotating your shoulder, snapping your arm like a whip etc. are all things that help you deliver power-punches, nevertheless, but all pro boxers, at least, can do that, so we're back again at the bone-issue, which is determinant to hit harder, as I've written before.
A heavier skeleton can support a bigger muscular mass (you don't need a Nobel Prize to notice this), the rest is technique: at a roughly same reach advantage and skill level, the guy with heavier bones can deliver heavier punches.
Canelo definitely scaled down Golovkin, exposing his flaws: I don't think GGG got that bruised face from falling down the stairs, dude...
Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?
Sir: Pacquiao often fought taller opponents, reaching their own same weight thanks to his own heavier (despite shorter...) skeleton, keeping a superior punching power...
...Do you need a lesson in solid geometry, or what?
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 19:22
Heavier bones with the same muscle mass put you in a higher weight class. It can't possibly be beneficial.
Ask amazing powerpuncher Tommy Hearns if he didn't feel Hagler's heavier hands... I could guess that technique also helps you developing punching power, but Tyson, also thanks to his heavy bone-calibre, could punch harder than taller guys. Same went for Marciano, I reckon.
adislav123 wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 06:19
[...] i'm to tired to explain your nonsense to you. The "thicker boned/harder puncher" poo you utter is just that.
Nothing in your "a heavier skeleton....", your last post makes sense... you are terribly wrong.
[...]
J say eff you! You will never get it... there are no boxers with the same skill level & reach & height & mass & what ever eff you criteria you wanna pull out of ur ass ... where then the one with wider wrists... whatever! eff you! Moron!
[...]
A few examples don't prove a statement. What about heavy handed Andy Lee who doesn't have thick bones? Hearns you mentioned was heavy handed too. His chin was just isn't as good as Hagler's.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 15:59
by Counter-puncher
The guy is just Kalan without the insults
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 16:08
by oogiebe
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 15:59
The guy is just Kalan without the insults
Ok, then why don't Pacquiao support a bigger musclular mass than most welterweights when he clearly has wrists bigger than some middleweights?
Sir: Pacquiao often fought taller opponents, reaching their own same weight thanks to his own heavier (despite shorter...) skeleton, keeping a superior punching power...
...Do you need a lesson in solid geometry, or what?
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
Sir: Pacquiao often fought taller opponents, reaching their own same weight thanks to his own heavier (despite shorter...) skeleton, keeping a superior punching power...
...Do you need a lesson in solid geometry, or what?
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
Hopkins was no bigger than Pavlik.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 16:27
by oogiebe
I came to discuss boxing. I left with a degree in bone structure. Sheesh! Oh yeah...Ron Stander had big bones, so what?
boxing_rocks wrote: ↑02 Jan 2019, 19:22
Heavier bones with the same muscle mass put you in a higher weight class. It can't possibly be beneficial.
Ask amazing powerpuncher Tommy Hearns if he didn't feel Hagler's heavier hands... I could guess that technique also helps you developing punching power, but Tyson, also thanks to his heavy bone-calibre, could punch harder than taller guys. Same went for Marciano, I reckon.
adislav123 wrote: ↑01 Jan 2019, 06:19
[...] i'm to tired to explain your nonsense to you. The "thicker boned/harder puncher" poo you utter is just that.
Nothing in your "a heavier skeleton....", your last post makes sense... you are terribly wrong.
[...]
J say eff you! You will never get it... there are no boxers with the same skill level & reach & height & mass & what ever eff you criteria you wanna pull out of ur ass ... where then the one with wider wrists... whatever! eff you! Moron!
[...]
A few examples don't prove a statement. What about heavy handed Andy Lee who doesn't have thick bones? Hearns you mentioned was heavy handed too. His chin was just isn't as good as Hagler's.
Here: you're obviously mistaking a fighter who can throw a punch with a heavy-handed boxer.
Andy Lee (who has he beaten, by the way..?) can throw a punch: he exploits his legs, his shoulders... he's a good puncher: that doesn't make him heavy-handed.
Now, that Quillin is one heavy-handed fighter: most probably, Lee has more skill in throwing a punch, but Quillin is more naturally-gifted in that sense (if he could learn to throw shots like Lee, there arguably would be no match...): they're balanced.
So, we've set this straight for now.
Pretty much the same goes for Hearns: he could throw a punch like no other, but his bone-structure wasn't Hagler's one: it's like being hit by a heavier club, or by a lighter club: if the one beating you with both clubs is the same guy, the heavier club will hurt you more than the lighter one: same goes for bone-structure, it's the very same principle.
Now, Hearns' chin wasn't exactly the shakiest: Tommy took on supermiddleweights, light-heavyweights, and cruiserweights, successfully. Couldn't last 3 rounds with Hagler, even being able to connect, but without hurting him seriously; 2+2=4: Hagler hit hard.
Huge bones might not be the only thing that matters in boxing, but it certainly adds a wholelot: in my boxing days, I noticed that, even being taller than most of my opponents and sparring-partners, I had less-punching power than even shorter, but stockier guys: by testing their punches on my chin, and vice versa, I've found out what I described above. Simple as this.
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 16:52
by Jacopodb
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 16:27
I came to discuss boxing. I left with a degree in bone structure. Sheesh! Oh yeah...Ron Stander had big bones, so what?
It's not the gay coat that makes the gentleman: heavy hands ain't enough, buddy, you also gotta learn how to throw a punch...
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 16:27
I came to discuss boxing. I left with a degree in bone structure. Sheesh! Oh yeah...Ron Stander had big bones, so what?
It's not the gay coat that makes the gentleman: heavy hands ain't enough, buddy, you also gotta learn how to throw a punch...
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
Hopkins was no bigger than Pavlik.
Oh, yes he was, dude: same reach, but heavier complexion: splitting all of my ballsack hair in 4 parts, would be a better way to spend your precious time, than trying to prove the opposite...
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 16:27
I came to discuss boxing. I left with a degree in bone structure. Sheesh! Oh yeah...Ron Stander had big bones, so what?
It's not the gay coat that makes the gentleman: heavy hands ain't enough, buddy, you also gotta learn how to throw a punch...
Whatsa matter, buddy, can't take a joke?
I didn't mean it maliciously, I just was lazy-enough not to check who that Ron Stander was: honest journeyman, clumsy enough, like every journeyman needs to be... he was little overweight against Frazier.
It's not the gay coat that makes the gentleman: heavy hands ain't enough, buddy, you also gotta learn how to throw a punch...
Whatsa matter, buddy, can't take a joke?
I didn't mean it maliciously, I just was lazy-enough not to check who that Ron Stander was: honest journeyman, clumsy enough, like every journeyman needs to be... he was little overweight against Frazier.
I actually saw the Frazier/Stander debacle. Joe was fat and flabby. Stander looked like a poorly butchered T-bone steak.
Sir: Pacquiao often fought taller opponents, reaching their own same weight thanks to his own heavier (despite shorter...) skeleton, keeping a superior punching power...
...Do you need a lesson in solid geometry, or what?
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
You said bigger bones/wrists. I say Hopkins does not have bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact they're likely smaller and Hopkins doesn't have a HUGE size advantage over Pavlik. Pavlik just can't beat a slick fighter...period. He never did and no Jermain Taylor while athletic wasn't a slickster.
No, you said " Pavlik in having been schooled by such a heavier opponent (look at their wrist-gap: Hopkins has considerably thicker bones = heavier punches)."
There's no proof that Hopkins had bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact, his wrists were smaller than Calaghe's 6" to 7".
Stop making excuses for Pavlik. While he was a good fighter, he simply isn't what you're making him out to be.
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
You said bigger bones/wrists. I say Hopkins does not have bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact they're likely smaller and Hopkins doesn't have a HUGE size advantage over Pavlik. Pavlik just can't beat a slick fighter...period. He never did and no Jermain Taylor while athletic wasn't a slickster.
It doesn't fvcking matter who had the thicker wrists
That fight was not won on who had the thicker wrists, the skill gulf was everything on that fight, Hopkins could give away 10lbs like Floyd against Baldomir and still win every
round with ease, his freakin' wrists even if they were a 'determinant' were an incredibly minor one
"There's no proof"... man, you're testing me now: if you got at least one decently-working eye, you should notice the difference: for how much of a powerpuncher Pavlik was, Hopkins had a serious size/complexion advantage... heavier hands, as we say.
You said bigger bones/wrists. I say Hopkins does not have bigger wrists than Pavlik. In fact they're likely smaller and Hopkins doesn't have a HUGE size advantage over Pavlik. Pavlik just can't beat a slick fighter...period. He never did and no Jermain Taylor while athletic wasn't a slickster.
It doesn't fvcking matter who had the thicker wrists
That fight was not won on who had the thicker wrists, the skill gulf was everything on that fight, Hopkins could give away 10lbs like Floyd against Baldomir and still win every
round with ease, his freakin' wrists even if they were a 'determinant' were an incredibly minor one
Is it me or are we already far down nutso avenue here?
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 17:38
by greg
you have to wonder what's gonna be the next argument, let me guess: thicker skull or still better: body hair?
Re: GGG vs Pavlik
Posted: 03 Jan 2019, 17:40
by oogiebe
greg wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 17:38
you have to wonder what's gonna be the next argument, let me guess: thicker skull or still better: body hair?
What the heck, we've had the beard dilemma; now wrist size and bone thickness; why not "Body Hair blunts body blows." LMAO!!!
