Most disappointing performances by Brits in world title fight

[big lennox]

spot on datsue, unless you are a close personal friend of pickering there is no way you can claim with any authority that he wasn't just totally smashed by martinez. big lennox, how do you know martinez wasn't severely dehydrated...? the fact is in the fight, pickering was out of his depth and got embarrassingly walloped - as did neil sinclair that night.[/quote]

I trained with Esham for the fight. My last training session with him was on the Tuesday of the week of the fight. I then caught up with him at the weigh in on the Friday and didn't recognise him at first, he was that drawn.

The arena the next day was also very cold, which I wonder if that played a part, as I don't think I have ever seen a show with so many knockouts on it (Esham Pickering, Buster Keaton, Richie Woodall, Neil Sinclair and Paul Ingle all getting stopped)

[digzee]

dont think you can blame lloyd for that, he was just completely out of his depth like esham pickering against mauricio martinez. it's all about levels.

Disagree with this. Esham was severely dehydrated going into this fight. He moved up in weight had a lot of success, and he he later sparred Martinez and got top sie of it.

Is there anything whatsoever one can say about a Sheffield fighter that doesn't immediately get jumped-upon around here by the ultra-defensive Steel City crew? I'm surprised loads of people haven't posted claiming to have definitely seen the X-ray of Kell's shattered, mangled ribs with their own eyes.

Pickering lasted seventy-two seconds, FFS. Just over a fvcking minute. Going "Oh but years later in a sparring session he did a lot better so that proves he was on that level" is taking jingoism (& talking utter bollocks) to previously unheard of levels.

Also, FTR, fifteen years after the fact, I have it on good authority that Eamonn Loughran handled Jose Luis Lopez in sparring, despite being used a basketball substitute when they actually fought. & also, ten years after being KO'd & outclassed Pedro Alcazar beat the shite outta Fernando Montiel in a rematch held behind closed doors that no-one but five of his mates saw.

This is even more impressive, IMO, as Alcazar had been dead nine & a half years at this point, but it just goes to show, doesn't it?

Legend!

[Counter-puncher]

Look at Oscar De La Hoya, for example, he had a superb chin, but was on the floor a few times at super-featherweight..

really? not that I recall, he didn't. can you name them? for a start he only had like 2 (title) fights at superfeather anyway so not sure where you got 'a few times' from. my memory must be severely screwed, otherwise...

[Counter-puncher]

They don't comment on Kid Galahad's rouge brother or Brook's ribs.

deafening silence i believe is the phrase

[Datsue]

Look at Oscar De La Hoya, for example, he had a superb chin, but was on the floor a few times at super-featherweight..

really? not that I recall, he didn't. can you name them? for a start he only had like 2 (title) fights at superfeather anyway so not sure where you got 'a few times' from. my memory must be severely screwed, otherwise...

He suffered two flash knockdowns, one against... Uh... Narciso Valenzuela? & the other against... Uh... The Italian dude who he knocked out two rounds later. Campanella? Maybe?

Lennox mate, there is a fvcking entire solar system of difference between getting put down for half a second by someone & getting done inside a round.

I am not going to engage any further, as it's obvious you're mates, but you keep claiming Eshering was on the (fringe of world) level that Martinez obviously was & over here in consensus reality we'll believe something different, eh?

[big lennox]

Look at Oscar De La Hoya, for example, he had a superb chin, but was on the floor a few times at super-featherweight..

really? not that I recall, he didn't. can you name them? for a start he only had like 2 (title) fights at superfeather anyway so not sure where you got 'a few times' from. my memory must be severely screwed, otherwise...

He suffered two flash knockdowns, one against... Uh... Narciso Valenzuela? & the other against... Uh... The Italian dude who he knocked out two rounds later. Campanella? Maybe?

Lennox mate, there is a fvcking entire solar system of difference between getting put down for half a second by someone & getting done inside a round.

I am not going to engage any further, as it's obvious you're mates, but you keep claiming Eshering was on the (fringe of world) level that Martinez obviously was & over here in consensus reality we'll believe something different, eh?

He was put down, though, and by fighters that were way below world class, which caused journalists and media commentators at the time to question his durability. However, once he left the super-featherweight and lightweight divisions behind him, his durablity provedd to be world class. Also, Amir Khan got blasted out inside a minute, and his durability has been better at higher weight classes. I don't think two of you claiming Esham was well below world class constitutes a consensus but hey ho.

[orbtastic]

Boxrec doesn't list it but he was down against Campanella & Valenzuela, both in the first.

[Counter-puncher]

Cheers! Not my idea of 'a few times', is what I was getting at.

[veriton]

spot on datsue, unless you are a close personal friend of pickering there is no way you can claim with any authority that he wasn't just totally smashed by martinez. big lennox, how do you know martinez wasn't severely dehydrated...? the fact is in the fight, pickering was out of his depth and got embarrassingly walloped - as did neil sinclair that night.

I trained with Esham for the fight. My last training session with him was on the Tuesday of the week of the fight. I then caught up with him at the weigh in on the Friday and didn't recognise him at first, he was that drawn.

The arena the next day was also very cold, which I wonder if that played a part, as I don't think I have ever seen a show with so many knockouts on it (Esham Pickering, Buster Keaton, Richie Woodall, Neil Sinclair and Paul Ingle all getting stopped)[/quote]

arena was cold for martinez too, probably affected him more as he was from panama. if pickering was drawn/dehydrated then that's his fault. He took the fight and got bombed out in the first round. In truth, he was shown up at that level because he took the chance before he was ready for it. True, he improved after that but it was a painful way to learn.

i was there that night too...keeton fight was a war, but woodhall was more about accumulation of punches rather than a KO. Sinclair had Santos down before it was goodnight vienna for him.

[Counter-puncher]

Lennox if you're going to go the 'cold arena' route you may as well.go the whole hog and talk about high altitude mate

[chiggsy]

"It was cold"

[big lennox]

spot on datsue, unless you are a close personal friend of pickering there is no way you can claim with any authority that he wasn't just totally smashed by martinez. big lennox, how do you know martinez wasn't severely dehydrated...? the fact is in the fight, pickering was out of his depth and got embarrassingly walloped - as did neil sinclair that night.

I trained with Esham for the fight. My last training session with him was on the Tuesday of the week of the fight. I then caught up with him at the weigh in on the Friday and didn't recognise him at first, he was that drawn.

The arena the next day was also very cold, which I wonder if that played a part, as I don't think I have ever seen a show with so many knockouts on it (Esham Pickering, Buster Keaton, Richie Woodall, Neil Sinclair and Paul Ingle all getting stopped)

arena was cold for martinez too, probably affected him more as he was from panama. if pickering was drawn/dehydrated then that's his fault. He took the fight and got bombed out in the first round. In truth, he was shown up at that level because he took the chance before he was ready for it. True, he improved after that but it was a painful way to learn.

i was there that night too...keeton fight was a war, but woodhall was more about accumulation of punches rather than a KO. Sinclair had Santos down before it was goodnight vienna for him.[/quote]

We obviously have a different point of view. You obviously see things in a very black or white kind of why and if you want to delude yourself that dehydration didn't play a part then that is absolutely fine. Incidentally, Martinez trained at the same gym as Esham during the week (coming in after Esham's sessions) and no,he was not weak at the weight the same that Esham was. In short, it was a gamble that didn't pay off, but would you turn down a world title opportunity?

[reggaereggae]

really? not that I recall, he didn't. can you name them? for a start he only had like 2 (title) fights at superfeather anyway so not sure where you got 'a few times' from. my memory must be severely screwed, otherwise...

He suffered two flash knockdowns, one against... Uh... Narciso Valenzuela? & the other against... Uh... The Italian dude who he knocked out two rounds later. Campanella? Maybe?

Lennox mate, there is a fvcking entire solar system of difference between getting put down for half a second by someone & getting done inside a round.

I am not going to engage any further, as it's obvious you're mates, but you keep claiming Eshering was on the (fringe of world) level that Martinez obviously was & over here in consensus reality we'll believe something different, eh?

He was put down, though, and by fighters that were way below world class, which caused journalists and media commentators at the time to question his durability. However, once he left the super-featherweight and lightweight divisions behind him, his durablity provedd to be world class. Also, Amir Khan got blasted out inside a minute, and his durability has been better at higher weight classes. I don't think two of you claiming Esham was well below world class constitutes a consensus but hey ho.

After watching from the sidelines, I think I have figured out the reason for Esham's disappointing performance. Big Lennox's endless blow jobs to Ronnie Pickering, sorry I mean Esham, were so good he 'literally' sucked the strength out of Esham for the fight. After having his man strength drained by Big Lennox, Esham looked drained at the weigh in. When it came to fight time, Pickering's legs were so weak from Lennox's sublime sucking skills, he had nothing left and was ironed out. However in a later sparring session, without prefight fellatio by Lennox, Pickering schooled Martinez, who consequently gave Esham a better blow job as he was so in awe of His skills...

Is that how it played out?

[Counter-puncher]

Its as good as the cold arena version

[veriton]

big lennox - how can dehydration have played a part, pickering got banged straight out??? wasn't as though he started blowing after a few rounds. you're taking the p1ss a bit with that excuse, ingle really was dehydrated that night and look at the price he ended up paying. you must be the only boxing fan i know who sees a man get sparked face down, and then starts checking the temperature in the arena to see if it was a cause. funny the video isnt on youtube...anyone got a link to it from somewhere else?

[big lennox]

"It was cold"

Have you never heard of the expression 'being caught cold" i.e haven't warmed up properly? What knocks you out is your nerve endings getting stretched, which is why a big left hook is far more potent than a straight right, as you head swiwels and your nerve endings get stretched. If you body is cold you are unable to move as quickly as normal and are therefore more susceptible. This works bothways, of course, but with one fighter severally dehydrated, it is no nsuprise that he is the one that came up short.

[big lennox]

After watching from the sidelines, I think I have figured out the reason for Esham's disappointing performance. Big Lennox's endless blow jobs to Ronnie Pickering, sorry I mean Esham, were so good he 'literally' sucked the strength out of Esham for the fight. After having his man strength drained by Big Lennox, Esham looked drained at the weigh in. When it came to fight time, Pickering's legs were so weak from Lennox's sublime sucking skills, he had nothing left and was ironed out. However in a later sparring session, without prefight fellatio by Lennox, Pickering schooled Martinez, who consequently gave Esham a better blow job as he was so in awe of His skills...

Is that how it played out?[/quote]

Cheap. And unimaginative. You get offered insight into a world title fight and respond with this schoolyard stuff.Pathetic.

[big lennox]

[quote="veriton"]big lennox - how can dehydration have played a part, pickering got banged straight out???

I keep reading this sentence and think 'you can't be serious'. If you are badly dehydrated then you are not as durable or able to move as quickly as freely as normal, so it would play a massive part in Esham getting 'banged straight out' as you so charmingly put it.

[orbtastic]

Watch Richie Sandoval against Gaby Canizales if you want to see a clinic on how not to fight when dehydrated. Almost killed him.

[Lenny]

Lennox if you're going to go the 'cold arena' route you may as well.go the whole hog and talk about high altitude mate

Is the sea level comparable to Manchester? Might be worth considering

[mickey1975]

Esham is lucky he got caught cold, imagine what trouble he'd have been in if he got to the second?

[big lennox]

What's interesting about the snidy, know it all comments here, is that ironically your reply's show that you don't know it all and are prepared to take things at face value and ignore key bits of information as they come to light.

The bottom line is that Esham lost a world title fight. Was he severely dehydrated? Yes. Would that have affected his chances? Undoubtably do. What concerns me is that you are not prepared to even accept this. Thank goodness none of you are coaching boxers, as ploughing on, deaf to the advice of doctors and research evidence would have your fighters in all sorts of trouble long-term.

[big lennox]

Lennox if you're going to go the 'cold arena' route you may as well.go the whole hog and talk about high altitude mate

Is the sea level comparable to Manchester? Might be worth considering

Ah, the charming posts that come dripping in sarcasm.

So, when fighters box outdoors in the autumn, they needn't bother wrapping up warm, as the cold conditions won't affect them in the slightest? I mean why did Wladimir and Haye bother come out to the ring so heavily wrapped up, as cold conditions won't hamper you in any way...

[Counter-puncher]

yes, and Panamanians are well-known to have a cold-resistant subcutaneous membrane making them impervious to the cold

such a problem could only possibly affect a boxer hailing from the tropical steambath of Nottinghamshire

[johnswan1]

The above made me laugh but on a more serious note I don't think there is much wrong with what Big Lennox has said.