BoxRec

Lewis was going to fight wlad after rahman. And the fact that he fought vitali on about 10 days notice doesn't signify fear. Lol

Judah Ben Fur wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Probably because towards the end HBO/Buffer in order to press the hustle further invented this bizarre, tenuous pre fight announcement that Lewis 'Avenged his rematches thus making him one of the only men in history to defeat every man he has ever faced' - which they never bothered to use for Riddick Bowe who holds the same claim.

I always liked Lennox Lewis, enjoyed his career and feel the division has been dead since his retirement and yet even for me the legend and mythology surrounding the man is over the top.

The division was dead the last 4 years of Lewis's reign. There was the myth of tyson that kept things interesting but lewis exposed tua and wouldnt fight a klitchko earlier or Byrd. I feel the end of the holyfield fights signified the start of the decline.....toney should have had a shot at the klitchkos circa 2004-2006 when he was still useful at hw

What on earth do you mean Lewis wouldn't fight a Klitschko earlier? Exactly which one should he have foight and explain how it would have been feasible?

Controversial wrote:

SNG wrote:Bowe doesn't have the same claim, he has a NC against Buster Mathis Jr a fight he could have been DQ'd in.

He was also getting his arse handed to him by Golota in both fights before Golota threw them away.

Right, and it was nothing at all that Bowe was doing that encouraged Golota to meltdown? Those fights were intense.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:

SNG wrote:Bowe doesn't have the same claim, he has a NC against Buster Mathis Jr a fight he could have been DQ'd in.

He was also getting his arse handed to him by Golota in both fights before Golota threw them away.

Right, and it was nothing at all that Bowe was doing that encouraged Golota to meltdown? Those fights were intense.

Yes they were intense but Golotoa was winning both fights on all cards, he was the better fighter. Who knows why he hit low but that doesn't detract from the fact Bowe was getting beat up both times.

Controversial wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:
He was also getting his arse handed to him by Golota in both fights before Golota threw them away.

Right, and it was nothing at all that Bowe was doing that encouraged Golota to meltdown? Those fights were intense.

Yes they were intense but Golotoa was winning both fights on all cards, he was the better fighter. Who knows why he hit low but that doesn't detract from the fact Bowe was getting beat up both times.

Lewis was losing on all cards against Vitali too. Lennox cut Vitali, Bowe made Golota do some crazy things. Look, in the rematch first blatant foul from Golota happened in the second round - Golota headbutted Bowe, because he was angry that he coundn't take him out after knockdown. Reason? Bowe's toughness. Then, when Golota started to throw low blows in the rematch? Right after Bowe knocked him down! Golota was hurt and he needed time to recover, so he started to hit Bowe low.

I love the logic. Golota, who lost both fights, was the better fighter.

Who says Vitali Klitschko was a better fighter than Lewis? Was Ray Mercer a better fighter than Lewis?

Golota took advantage of a disgustingly overweight Bowe in the first fight. In the second fight he met a Bowe who, without Futch, was foolishly overtrained and weight drained. "Gaunt," as Larry Merchant called him at the weigh in. In that second fight, against a withered Big Daddy, Golota still got dropped, had his jaw broken and wound up drenched in his own blood. He was in the right place at the right time both nights and still he couldn't get rid of Bowe. Maybe that had something to do with Golota's desperation. Controversial is making it sound like Lewis/Tua. It wasn't.

I always though part of the reason that Bowe didn't look that good was because he was getting hit low over and over.
Anyway, it always cracks me up with the double standard. Bowe (not as his best) still beat Golota. For many people this is the "go to" to criticize Bowe.
Vitaly Kltischko can only last six rounds against an obese Lennox Lewis, yet somehow gets credit for this.

Tuan_Jim wrote:I love the logic. Golota, who lost both fights, was the better fighter.

Who says Vitali Klitschko was a better fighter than Lewis? Was Ray Mercer a better fighter than Lewis?

Golota took advantage of a disgustingly overweight Bowe in the first fight. In the second fight he met a Bowe who, without Futch, was foolishly overtrained and weight drained. "Gaunt," as Larry Merchant called him at the weigh in. In that second fight, against a withered Big Daddy, Golota still got dropped, had his jaw broken and wound up drenched in his own blood. He was in the right place at the right time both nights and still he couldn't get rid of Bowe. Maybe that had something to do with Golota's desperation. Controversial is making it sound like Lewis/Tua. It wasn't.

I'm not saying Golota was a better fighter but he was winning both fights against Bowe before disqualification, thats just a fact. This came up talking about Bowe's quality of opposition which in my opinion was poor compared to Lewis (Holyfield aside). As I said before if you take Holyfield fights out the equation who else did Bowe beat? Tubbs has been mentioned, that was closer than the UD decision appears to be and booed by the crowd, Tubbs not the fighter he once was either. Golota maybe another and he gave Bowe fits and the 16-0 Larry Donald who I feel was thrown into a title fight too quickly. I'm not saying Bowe was a bad fighter, he just underachieved.

We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

no it doesnt, if bowe was that good he wouldnt of gone life and death with holyfield who was a dwarf compared to bowe, bowe had serious dicipline problems which were always gonna hamper him, theres also no way lewis would of defended against the likes of dokes or ferguson.

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

And Buster Douglas beating Tyson trumps that. In isolation there are always arguments to be made, over an entire career is where it really matters, and in that case Lewis trumps Bowe everytime.

littlepug wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

no it doesnt, if bowe was that good he wouldnt of gone life and death with holyfield who was a dwarf compared to bowe, bowe had serious dicipline problems which were always gonna hamper him, theres also no way lewis would of defended against the likes of dokes or ferguson.

I agree. Holyfield had too much machismo and fought the wrong fight against a much larger opponent. As great as these fights were to watch I think they flatter Bowe as he never looked that good against anyone else.

littlepug wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

no it doesnt, if bowe was that good he wouldnt of gone life and death with holyfield who was a dwarf compared to bowe, bowe had serious dicipline problems which were always gonna hamper him, theres also no way lewis would of defended against the likes of dokes or ferguson.

Dokes and Ferguson were better then Phil Jackson. And didn't Lewis struggle badly against old and washed up Holyfield in rematch?

Saying that, in my opinion Lewis should be ranked much higher than Bowe in all-time lists because of his longevity and consistency. Lewis fulfilled his potential, while Bowe wasted his incredible talent and it was his own fault.

Boxing Writer wrote:

littlepug wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

no it doesnt, if bowe was that good he wouldnt of gone life and death with holyfield who was a dwarf compared to bowe, bowe had serious dicipline problems which were always gonna hamper him, theres also no way lewis would of defended against the likes of dokes or ferguson.

Dokes and Ferguson were better then Phil Jackson. And didn't Lewis struggle badly against old and washed up Holyfield in rematch?

Saying that, Lewis should be ranked much higher than Bowe in all-time lists because of his longetivity and consistancy. Lewis fulfilled his potential, while Bowe wasted his incredible talent and it was his own fault.

dokes and ferguson were corpses when they fought bowe, and struggling with a much smaller guy isnt the same as being dragged into war by him IMO

littlepug wrote: dokes and ferguson were corpses when they fought bowe, and struggling with a much smaller guy isnt the same as being dragged into war by him IMO

Ferguson was coming off a one-sided win over Ray Mercer. After Bowe blew him out he lost a controversial decision to Ray Mercer in the rematch. Five years later he went 12 easy rounds with Hasim Rahman.

Ferguson a corpse? You don't know what you're talking about.

Controversial wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

And Buster Douglas beating Tyson trumps that. In isolation there are always arguments to be made, over an entire career is where it really matters, and in that case Lewis trumps Bowe everytime.

Douglas beating a man many people feel Holyfield would always beat trumps Bowe beating Holyfield? No.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:We all wanted more out of Riddick Bowe, but his two wins over Evander Holyfield, the first one over a peak prime undefeated Holyfield, trumps everything on Lewis's record.

And Buster Douglas beating Tyson trumps that. In isolation there are always arguments to be made, over an entire career is where it really matters, and in that case Lewis trumps Bowe everytime.

Douglas beating a man many people feel Holyfield would always beat trumps Bowe beating Holyfield? No.

So we are going down the "who believes would have won" route now? Do I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson had they fought 5 years earlier. No.

Lewis had a better career than Bowe, there is little point discussing it to be honest.

Controversial wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:
And Buster Douglas beating Tyson trumps that. In isolation there are always arguments to be made, over an entire career is where it really matters, and in that case Lewis trumps Bowe everytime.

Douglas beating a man many people feel Holyfield would always beat trumps Bowe beating Holyfield? No.

So we are going down the "who believes would have won" route now? Do I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson had they fought 5 years earlier. No.

Lewis had a better career than Bowe, there is little point discussing it to be honest.

If Lewis had a better career than Bowe, then Wladimir Klitschko must have had a better career than Lewis. Follow your own logic through.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

littlepug wrote: dokes and ferguson were corpses when they fought bowe, and struggling with a much smaller guy isnt the same as being dragged into war by him IMO

Ferguson was coming off a one-sided win over Ray Mercer. After Bowe blew him out he lost a controversial decision to Ray Mercer in the rematch. Five years later he went 12 easy rounds with Hasim Rahman.

Ferguson a corpse? You don't know what you're talking about.

Ok fair enough but Ferguson was no world beater and wouldn't have got a sniff of a shot if mercer hadn't been such a lazy sod

Evander ruined bowe, he won the series but lost the war. Lewis clearly has the superior resume to bowe. Mythical fights don't count.

littleton wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Lewis clearly has the superior resume to bowe.

Bowe was never knocked out with a single punch.

So he has a better resume?

Do me a favour.

littleton wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Lewis clearly has the superior resume to bowe.

Bowe was never knocked out with a single punch.

littleton wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Lewis clearly has the superior resume to bowe.

Bowe was never knocked out with a single punch.

That has no bearing whatsoever

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
Douglas beating a man many people feel Holyfield would always beat trumps Bowe beating Holyfield? No.

So we are going down the "who believes would have won" route now? Do I think Holyfield would have beaten Tyson had they fought 5 years earlier. No.

Lewis had a better career than Bowe, there is little point discussing it to be honest.

If Lewis had a better career than Bowe, then Wladimir Klitschko must have had a better career than Lewis. Follow your own logic through.

If your talking stats then yes Klitschko on paper achieved more than most heavyweight champs in history, only Louis surpasses him there. If you mean quality of opposition then no he doesn't. There still is no argument, Lewis achieved more than Bowe, lasted longer and beat overall better opposition. So if you are asked to pick out the two you would pick Bowe?
.

littlepug wrote:

littleton wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Lewis clearly has the superior resume to bowe.

Bowe was never knocked out with a single punch.

That has no bearing whatsoever

Thats because Bowe defended against guys like Dokes and Ferguson.