BoxRec

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Didn't he? How did that fight end then? I'm sure I remember a body shot ending it.

Edit: The NY Times seems to agree
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/sport ... toney.html

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

Didn't he? How did that fight end then? I'm sure I remember a body shot ending it.

Edit: The NY Times seems to agree
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/sport ... toney.html

We could probably check YouTube, but I'm too lazy to do so. I can see in my mind Toney hitting him up and down and Holyfield tumbling to the floor. He got up but the towel was thrown in. 'Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot' struck me as not quite resembling the details.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

palooka wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

handsofstone wrote:I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

Tuan_Jim wrote:

palooka wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Toney did not stop Holyfield with a body shot! That's not what happened at all.

That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

palooka wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

palooka wrote:
That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

Yeah a great performance, Toney at his brilliant best.

Nobody ever did a number on Holyfield like Toney, James outboxed and slowly took him to pieces, even taking away Evander's best weapon, the left hook, with his own. I never saw Holyfield as totally dominated by anyone.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

palooka wrote:
That was the first bout that came to my mind, the other was Tyson v Spinks though that's not what happened either.

The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

We're talking about Tyson/Spinks you dunce.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
The first knockdown was from a beastly body shot. Second show-closing knockdown came with a right hand square in the mush.

Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Actually, just watched it, it was a right hook to the body, followed by a glancing left hook to the body that didn't really land.

Neither punch was significant really, it was more an accumulation, Holyfield was exhausted by that point after the beating he had taken.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Incorrect. Holyfield gets hit with a left hook to the body and almost takes another body shot on the way down, he gets up and the fight is stopped. The right hand to the mush is all in your head.

Actually, just watched it, it was a right hook to the body, followed by a glancing left hook to the body that didn't really land.

Neither punch was significant really, it was more an accumulation, Holyfield was exhausted by that point after the beating he had taken.

That's as I remember it. Holyfield was by that point beat up, and the last couple of punches were surplus.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I never even knew Toney fought Holyfield

It was a brilliant performance by Toney, you must watch it

Yeah a great performance, Toney at his brilliant best.

Nobody ever did a number on Holyfield like Toney, James outboxed and slowly took him to pieces, even taking away Evander's best weapon, the left hook, with his own. I never saw Holyfield as totally dominated by anyone.

Tuan_Jim wrote:And having finally bothered to watch the Toney/Holyfield finish, it was, as James correctly pointed out, an accumulation of shots on a beat up man that culminated with a body shot when Holyfield was already done, so to say "Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot" would be as inaccurate to say "Lewis stopped Bruno with an overhand right" simply because that was the last punch that landed. There had been significant blows landed beforehand. Now Hatton/Castillo - that's an example of a man stopping an opponent with a body shot.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:And having finally bothered to watch the Toney/Holyfield finish, it was, as James correctly pointed out, an accumulation of shots on a beat up man that culminated with a body shot when Holyfield was already done, so to say "Toney stopped Holyfield with a body shot" would be as inaccurate to say "Lewis stopped Bruno with an overhand right" simply because that was the last punch that landed. There had been significant blows landed beforehand. Now Hatton/Castillo - that's an example of a man stopping an opponent with a body shot.

To be honest, I wasn't thinking that deeply about it, it was just the first heavyweight fight that came to mind which clearly ended with a body shot.

Boxing Writer wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:A few points:

1) Klitschko will be another year older

2) Klitschko has made a certain way of fighting his comfort zone for so long, its difficult to see him change it up at this stage

3) Fury will only (surely) improve and have more confidence than he did the first time

4) If Klitschko decides to fight more aggressively, he's taking a gamble that he will gas out and leave himself open to counters; even as a master tactician, Klitschko wears down after so many rounds

5) Fury will more than likely be looking to put an exclaimation point on this fight, and will be more aggressive, to show the first fight was no fluke---- so I see Fury's work rate not only get higher, but his all-around movement increase, making him more difficult to hit

I think the game plan, will be to box the same as before, and following six rounds the pace will increase and Fury will be looking for a stoppage. Klitschko, older and worn down with chasing Fury, trying to be more aggressive, will be worse for wear at this point and Fury will ultimately drop him somewhere between 8-10 rounds. A stoppage TKO will come not long after.

Very good post. The only thing I disagreee with is Fury's confidence. I think he can't be more confident in the rematch only because he was as confident as ever in the first fight